Radical Islam - The Biggest Threat to your Freedoms

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


Yes I know that Muslims submit themselves to God. I suppose that is the nature of faith, don't think?

This being "slave" thing you contribute is suppose to allude to the type of slavery that happened in the Americas. I think you embellish the reasonable meanings of words.

One can say they are a slave to their sport, or a slave to their wives; it does not mean that they are actually slaves but because of a compulsion of love or faith drives them in a certain way.

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady


This is just misdirection,a Westerner says he is a slave to football, it is a CHOICE! he willingly makes, same as a monk submits himself to a discipline.


With Islam the point is that there is no CHOICE - ever!

Please lose the slave analogy, its offensive and misleading guys.

I think you will find that the more extreme Islamists actually do fully submit to their religion, to without question blow yourself up isn't a natural action, self preservation is still the number one instinct, so to have got to the point where you can remove that from the equation really defines that you have fully submitted to that faith.

There are very few faiths that will actually go that far, very few...

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

This is just misdirection,a Westerner says he is a slave to football, it is a CHOICE! he willingly makes, same as a monk submits himself to a discipline.


With Islam the point is that there is no CHOICE - ever!

Depends whether you define Islam as the Quran or the man made verses.

The book offers choices and encourages question asking, the man made verses ask you to do without question.

This is why I'm trying to show there's a little more to it than being Muslim.

I'd also like to try and point out that although religion is involved what we have is the ideal of replacing a culture, its quite a cold hearted aim but that IS the aim.

As I have said, this is the exact strategy of a virus, it enters the host in a quiet back door way, sitting there quietly waiting for events to cover its work, then altering the way the host does things, slowly but surely seeking control of the host until in the blink of an eye the host in denied any control, the host is taken over and stays in control while multiplying and infecting the next host it can find.

Like it or not that is the way it's happening around the world.

God I wish I could control quantum physics and go to one of my parallel dimensions where none of this has happened.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

This is just misdirection,a Westerner says he is a slave to football, it is a CHOICE! he willingly makes, same as a monk submits himself to a discipline.


With Islam the point is that there is no CHOICE - ever!

I think it is you making the misdirection and I corrected you. Faith is always a choice and it is you that is whipping up something that is not there.

Even in the UK and you stand up curse God you can be arrested for blasphemy or incitement and it is the same in some Muslim countries. You can loose you faith and carry on with you life but if you stand in the middle of a Mosque you blaspheme you deserve what you get.

This is neither your business or my business but you are selling hate aren't you?

Now don't use deflection in your answer, you hear?

Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

This is just misdirection,a Westerner says he is a slave to football, it is a CHOICE! he willingly makes, same as a monk submits himself to a discipline.


With Islam the point is that there is no CHOICE - ever!

I think it is you making the misdirection and I corrected you. Faith is always a choice and it is you that is whipping up something that is not there.

Even in the UK and you stand up curse God you can be arrested for blasphemy or incitement and it is the same in some Muslim countries. You can loose you faith and carry on with you life but if you stand in the middle of a Mosque you blaspheme you deserve what you get.

This is neither your business or my business but you are selling hate aren't you?

Now don't use deflection in your answer, you hear?

Bad analogy again, depending on where you are at the time you have little or no choice, while you might be arrested for blasphemy here its very very unlikely you will be ever, while say in Pakistan you not only will be arrested but also hung for it. What we have here is freedom of speech vs room for mistake and the leniency of the faith involved.

With radical Islam you have no leniency, you have no choices and its a way of law that kills more people for the simple reason of wanting to..

Here in the UK there's a hypocritical want on the face of the Radicals, they wish to stand out screaming hatred and attacking others faiths yet they wish to ban the same thing being done to them..

Its a nonsense

It worries me that people have some semblance of understanding for this radical Islam, to have an understanding for it you have to permit yourself to deny yourself the freedom of speech, the freedom to question, the freedom to disagree with something that is illogical.

Do people really agree that its right for a religion to have the power to kill you because you do not agree with its working, do people think its fine to be be killed for touching a book with your left hand, do people think its fine to be killed for daring to say Allah in anything other than a worshipping way?

If you do then welcome to 1100AD, welcome to practises that were both barbaric and wrong, yes, wrong. People killed because they worshipped and idol and so on and so forth.

That's what you get if Sharia was enforced, think I'm mad, think again.

I have no time for religion for reasons I have explained, I don't begrudge people taking comfort from it like my in laws but when it seeks to limit my freedom I have serious issues with it. If people wish to role play Sharia then be my guest and nip over to area's in Pakistan, she how it works, see if you like it but you won't get a second chance if you make a mistake and I believe most people deserve a second chance.

I think he just enjoyed a spot of name calling.

If you have read any of my posts on here you know I have a fairly good understanding of your faith, a huge amount more than most and am well aware of what is Quran and what is man made. Can I just ask why so few normal ordinary Muslim people refuse to publicly to denounce these people giving your faith such a bad name by doing things which are not in the book and basically against the religion.

My in laws have explained about the judging issue and I understand the ethics of it but find the 'they will pay on judgement day' a bit of a get out and totally useless to the poor person about to be beheaded, he needs help then.

Just wondering..

Ahh good question man, yeah i have read a lot of your posts, and you provide some valid and good arguments. Thing is, most ordinary muslims in society dont voice out publicly, or outside the community, those that do, they are usually the ones that try to push Islam too hard.

Ill tell you how the the standard system works: All the muslim go through mosque from a young age to there mid teens getting taught the basics or 5 pillars of Islam where they learn the daily necessary religion duties.

The more advanced studies, they usually go on to boarding schools or Madrassahs, these places are set up to teach more in depth studies and Hadith etc. These guys go on to become really well respected scholars, and usually go back to their local communities to help the ordinary folk stay focused on the basic, maybe become teachers in mosques etc. Every so often these guys, and theres a lot of em, make talks and tons of people always attend them, the local ordinary public.

Also there are is the Tabligh Jamaat, who are like the missionary dudes, there would be a lotta these guys, and they would take you on multiple night trips to mosques to stay over and stay in ibaadat (prayer and recitation etc) they would go recruit people and help take them to these talks and organize events, these guys are not necessarily scholars from madrassahs but just community folk trying t make sure practice of islam is upheld.

All of these guys mentioned above, they are consistently trying to bolster the religious practice in their local communities ad make sure faith is upheld. This make up for almost 99% of all muslim communities in UK.

This is a very, and i mean very strong structure in which muslims always do the utmost to help keep religious practices goin on within their locales. I mean most people in these communities know each other very well, every week or so id be getting guys knocking on our doors, reminding us about faith giving lectures, taking us on bigger talks, conferences, etc. People will travel from smaller muslim neighborhoods to bigger ones and gather up together for talk from more respected scholars.

I mean its a very interpersonal personal relationship we share, and everyone would talk about problems in their life finding solutions etc etc.

Let me tell you about these talks, in everyone single one of these lectures and talks, its always about REMINDING about the faith, to stay on course and keep to the 5 pillars, make regular practice and generally live a religious life where love and caring for one another is most important. You will hardly ever hear about any conspiracy type things, or anything like that. Its always about the muslim community, and talking about how bad our muslim community is becoming and what we must do to fix it.

I mean ive been to 1001 of these lectures, and admittedly i have sometimes become bored, because its always the same thing, i sometimes think to myself what about the wars ging on and politics, but they refrain from talking about that, its main principle is to strengthen our own imaan (faith)

The idea behind the main principle by strengthening ones own faith, will lead to more unity, better public relations, and that spreading islam will come from people observing the practice of our faith, not by intentionally seeking out to convert people etc. We believe that just by making a good example of yourself and your religion wil help spread islam fast, and trust me when i say i have seen many reverts/converts and 99% of them come to islam through this, observation on how muslims lead their lives and daily practices, not because of the muslim struggles going on abroad etc, not by force or anything like that.

I hope this has given you a slight insight to how standard ordinary muslim communities work. To fully answer your question, i will say in utmost honesty, all this local effort is about just that, sorting out own selves out, makig sure people don fall into the trap of taking Quranic verses out of context etc and being 'radicalized' by it.

Let me tell you mate, about the Quran and Islam, when we muslims talk about our faith, we dont see it as simple religion, we KNOW of it as a way of life, and that is why the Quran is how it is, it is very strict and has a lot of content on how to live your life according to a prosperous religious way.
Its always the strict aspect, when it comes to punishment etc that get taken waaay out of context. But once you have learnt about Islam from the basics up, you will begin to understand why such strict measures are taken.

Islam caters for all types of people, especially those for the poor rather than the wealthy, and the wealthy attain more responsibilites for their god given success, we find that in society now, with all this radicalization, you will only find this radicalization to people looking for power and status.

The thing is that in such a society whee we live, where MSM demonises everything about us, all these misconceptions, and the struggles muslims are facing in war torn countries, a lot of anger builds up, and people are wrongfully looking for paths to build their hate on, falling right into the TPTB trap. That is why the local muslim community in its utmost effort always teaches the basics.

We are taught to only pray, and encourage religious practice within our communities, instead of looking to fight back etc, because we will not win, and the only way to survive this coming storm is through divine help, through prophecies etc, that is what is taught in these 9999 lectures. Teaching people, increasing knowledge etc and stay on the right path.

If you look at the current world crisis atm, we see 2 fake wars, all the MSM propaganda, and hardly anything has been done about it on our part, those muslims who ahve died, those civilians those are the true martyrs, if islam was as barbaric as people made it out to be, dont you think we would be going out to war right now? Because im sure you all know and you can see it from these wars and gaza etc, these muslims they are not scared at all, they have more love for the afterlife, and as much as it pains us to watch people die etc, we hav been taught that they are going to a better place. We only wait for the prophecies to happen, which imo are playing out everyday. I think everyone on ATS, feel there is a culmination of events happening as well.

Hmm im not too sure what you inlaws meant about the judgment/beheading part. Like i said the way we see it, we definitely believe in divine judgment. If your talking about shariah law its a huuuge topic, and my post is long enough, i can only ask you to research on shariah law yourself. But i will tell you that, sharia law, is something that can be changed and reformed whereas the Quranic law, is for all times and eras. Sharia law is a controversial subject, and most too often with he help of propaganda cultural practices are being thrown in to make it appear worse etc.

Sorry for making this post long, but i wanted to help everyone see how things work a bit on our side, i hope it clarifies some things a bit

Sorry for the spelling grammar problems etc :S

Peace and salaams

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

It is my experience that most Muslims understand very little about their own religion

But of course you as a none Muslim know much better about their religion than they do. I suppose it is because you are more intelligent, Western, erudite and a Phd in Comparative World Religions. Please enlighten us some more on your grand experiences on what is in the mind of your average every day Muslim.

SUBMISSION to Islam - not to pick and choose your beliefs and actions as a matter of personal concience.

But complete and utter submission without question to the revealed word of Allah through the Koran - regarded as the complete final and perfect truth for all time.

In other words you a a slave to this system from the moment you are born till the moment you die and beyond - you are owned mind body and soul.

To the extent that you do not fulfill this requirement then you are not a good muslim!

edit on 19-1-2011 by JohhnyBGood because: added something

That is why the Quran has remained unaltered since its revelation, unlike other such scriptures.

Yep if were good muslims, we would abide by every law in the Quran, mind body and soul. Put it this way, we believe in God as fact as fact can be, this God is all powerful. Why wouldnt you want to be a slave to him?

If you were to choose between law of man, or law of a God, which would you choose? We believe he knows best for us, as obviously history tells us we dont know what is best for ourselves.

Obviously athiests wont believe in God, and to find it as offensive to be a slave to this system. Yet they fall prey t the system of the TPTB, which i tell you is luciferic/satanic in nature, and the Mind control operations, MK ultra etc, happening over generations is absolutely ridiculous, if you only knew

Peace

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

This is just misdirection,a Westerner says he is a slave to football, it is a CHOICE! he willingly makes, same as a monk submits himself to a discipline.


With Islam the point is that there is no CHOICE - ever!

There is a choice, we believe in free will, but fate as well. If we make the wrong choices, we fail this exam called life, and end up in a worse place in the hereafter. However if we make the right choices, that God has ordained, then we will be rewarded for it.

Society and the public is being pushed into a stranglehold, by the TPTB, their aim to make you sell your ideals, sell your beliefs for money, power and worldy possessions.

Muslims will refuse to sell out, and thats what drives this propaganda machine and the war on Islam which is going on in the world.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
It worries me that people have some semblance of understanding for this radical Islam, to have an understanding for it you have to permit yourself to deny yourself the freedom of speech, the freedom to question, the freedom to disagree with something that is illogical.

Do people really agree that its right for a religion to have the power to kill you because you do not agree with its working, do people think its fine to be be killed for touching a book with your left hand, do people think its fine to be killed for daring to say Allah in anything other than a worshipping way?

If you do then welcome to 1100AD, welcome to practises that were both barbaric and wrong, yes, wrong. People killed because they worshipped and idol and so on and so forth.

That's what you get if Sharia was enforced, think I'm mad, think again.

I have no time for religion for reasons I have explained, I don't begrudge people taking comfort from it like my in laws but when it seeks to limit my freedom I have serious issues with it. If people wish to role play Sharia then be my guest and nip over to area's in Pakistan, she how it works, see if you like it but you won't get a second chance if you make a mistake and I believe most people deserve a second chance.

Hey i think you are going hyperbole on this one, you cant be saying sharia law gives religion the authority to kill for touching the holy book with the left hand? killed for daring to say Allah in a wrongful way? Killed for thinking its not working? Where are you basing your understanding from? I have never heard of this before, can you please link me sources or something?

The fact a poster compared Islam to cancer is disgusting.

I'm sure I recall Heinrich Himmer making similar comments about the Jews.

The fact that post got several stars is even more appalling.

The viccitudes of the elite are the biggest threat to our freedoms. Much evil will be done under the war against terror and when we finally win the oppressive structures will continue. That is usually what happens.

reply to post by nastyj


Yes, we understand that Muslims are very religious about their enslavement of women and forcing of their beliefs on others. It is hard not to notice that this is the main concern of Muslims.

Maybe if you were concerned that in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of the Muslims being killed are being killed by other Muslims. Most of the deaths are those trying to create a lawful society with rights for individuals being killed by radical Muslims who believe they should kill school girls rather than allowing them to go to school.

When your religious study groups start talking about solving these problems, then you will be on your way to doing right by God, and only then.

Originally posted by Kram09
The fact a poster compared Islam to cancer is disgusting.

I'm sure I recall Heinrich Himmer making similar comments about the Jews.

The fact that post got several stars is even more appalling.

Islam is a belief system, a perverted evil cruel ideology, nothing more! - one that should have been dumped in the dustbin of history a long time ago and is certainly not off limits to criticism!

What is truly disgusting is Western liberals - supporting this as a stalking horse for their hatred of Judeo christian culture.

Fear - The Biggest Threat to Your Freedoms

man..... in a world where people in the muslim world are beginning to rebel against sharia law, we have westerners afraid of it moving to their community.

WOW

Originally posted by nastyj

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

This is just misdirection,a Westerner says he is a slave to football, it is a CHOICE! he willingly makes, same as a monk submits himself to a discipline.


With Islam the point is that there is no CHOICE - ever!

There is a choice, we believe in free will, but fate as well. If we make the wrong choices, we fail this exam called life, and end up in a worse place in the hereafter. However if we make the right choices, that God has ordained, then we will be rewarded for it.

Society and the public is being pushed into a stranglehold, by the TPTB, their aim to make you sell your ideals, sell your beliefs for money, power and worldy possessions.

Muslims will refuse to sell out, and thats what drives this propaganda machine and the war on Islam which is going on in the world.

Mohammed is reported to have said of the end-times, by that time you will be so bad, that there will be 71 sects within Islam - only one would be the correct one, all others would go to hell.

So ... it doesn't seem your 'choices' are going to end well does it!

Besides as a Muslim you do not have a choice and you are not allowed to exercise 'freewill' - you are simply born into it and will be killed if you criticise or leave - why do you bother with this ludicrous nonesense!? this is the 21st century

Yeh because the EDL are really really violent arent they

Quite impressive im sure you will agree.

At not violent AT ALL