Can A Dustbin have a consciousness?

reply to post by franspeakfree


Can a dustbin have a consciousness?
No.
But a mind can be full of rubbish.

Originally posted by strato
Consciousness is an effect of biological matter in the form of brain. Your dustbin cannot have consciousness.

Does that even make sense? it looks to me as though someone has alot of personal mediating to do

Originally posted by atlasastro
reply to post by franspeakfree

 

Can a dustbin have a consciousness?
No.
But a mind can be full of rubbish.

Wise words from atlasastro, what other pearls can you share with us? we are all on the edge of our seats.

Why do we exist at all?

Because you have too.

I'll put it in an other way. Existence simply is the question, why does existence exist. Its a question created within existence.

The question is subject to existence, existence is not subject to the question.

Existence has only one quality, to exist. Therefore that witch exist, simply exist.
It doesn't need in any shape ore form, to justify its existence by asking why does it exist.

Existence exist, because that's the quality it exhibits . ' Existence'

All the things that will never exist, already dont exist. There is no room in non-existence for things that do exist.

Therefore if it exist, it doesnt need to explain why it exist It exist because it is not in non-existence.
Therefore the only place it can be is in existence.
Thats the ultimate polarity of creation.

So consciosness, is a product of existence, therefore all is conscious, because it exist.

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


Are you consciously aware how many times you used the word exist in your post?

Thanks for your posts I will ponder what you have written and I look forward to watching the video, if you see me in the chat forum collar me and we can talk metaphysics.

reply to post by franspeakfree


Thank you Fran, for those kind words, I feel that I am only trying to match the infinite wisdom of those pondering the consciousness of a garbage recepticle.

Lets try juxtaposing the position in order to clarify my stance. A dustbin and a mind full of rubbish, would you call a person a Dustbin in order to describe them as a conscious being?
I doubt you would.
Ergo, can a Dustbin have a consciousness?
No.
But a conscious mind can certainly be full of rubbish.

reply to post by atlasastro


I understand what you are saying, but the point of this thread is not to look at a garbage can as a receptacle for waste, but to look at it from another viewpoint one that one can see from 'everywhere' all at once. i.e expand your own conscious thought in to the universe and then look deeper.

Of course these words will fall on deaf ears if one does not know how to project consciousness and has never experienced a higher state of awareness.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
reply to post by atlasastro

 

I understand what you are saying, but the point of this thread is not to look at a garbage can as a receptacle for waste, but to look at it from another viewpoint one that one can see from 'everywhere' all at once. i.e expand your own conscious thought in to the universe and then look deeper.

You asked a question Fran. Can a Dustbin have a Consciousness, I understand it is a generalisation in order to ponder consciousness and its significance to you, me, a dustbin and the universe.

How does one expand conscious thought by anthropomorphizing inanimate objects?
We are limited, Fran, as we are. As is a dustbin or an animal and a tree. Limited. Finite. We may be a part of something infinite and unlimited. But as we are, we are not that nor do we know the exact nature of the whole so as to ascertain what we are or might be a part of.
That is a fact.
Once one accepts that you cannot see "everywhere all at once" then you know consciousness, as you experience it, has a definition in that it is limited. As you experience it, it has limits.

How does water understand what it is by thinking it is fire?

We have to understand what we are first in order to understand what your "dustbin" is capable of in relation to consciousness, You, the world and everywhere else. To me, it seems absurd to attribute an aspect of my existence, that being consciousness, onto that of other aspects of the universe when I do not fully understand it myself.

Of course these words will fall on deaf ears if one does not know how to project consciousness and has never experienced a higher state of awareness.

edit on 19-1-2011 by franspeakfree because: (no reason given)

Fran, state of awareness is purely subjective.
IMHO it is not definitive of consciousness. Awareness, to me, itself is limited. Awareness is the ability to percieve, so you are essentially asking yourself to percieve your own consciousness beyond that which is even comprehensible by consciousness itself because the tools with which your consciousness uses to experinece awareness is your awareness of that awareness.
Getting confused yet?
How does your awareness consciously decided objectively that your awareness is now higher? How do you gauge the difference between awareness and what you are merely paying attention too? What relationship does this have to the defining of your own state of awareness?

Does merely pondering this make you more aware? Does merely paying attention to your state of awareness as an experience of consciousness and consciousness as a whole make you more aware?

It should make you aware of your limitations.

IMHO Consciousness is an experience and cannot be defined objectively as an inherently characteristic of the universe.
The "projection of your consciousness" is unreliable, Fran. Sorry to break it to you! It is merely the projection of your experinece of consciousness as a characteristic that may be shared by something like your dustbin.
You are projecting consciousness onto a Dustbin. Project Love onto that Bin Fran. Project Sexual desire Fran. Project Pain. Project Memory. Project neuroelectric correlations of awareness and actions. Project the dustbin's self, and that dustbin being self aware.

Consciousness is our Idea, it is a word we made up, our description of an aspect of our experience as we experience it and how we attribute certain levels or awareness of this experience onto other life forms etc.

It is all flawed by our own limitations, our understanding and a lack there-of.

I find it more productive, and much more humbling and awe inspiring to accept the limitations of my existence as I consciously percieve it whilst considering the magnificence of the unknown that surrounds me. I am acutely aware of this.
Projecting my limited concepts of existence onto inanimate objects has never brought me a higher state of awareness other than to create a false dichotomy of consciousness within my surroundings that has no basis in reality, as I know it.
But hey!
Thats just me.


Can a Dustbin have a consciousness?
No, regardless of the amount of projecting one does.

But a mind can be full of rubbish.

Deep enough for you?

Originally posted by atlasastro
Does merely pondering this make you more aware? Does merely paying attention to your state of awareness as an experience of consciousness and consciousness as a whole make you more aware?

It should make you aware of your limitations.

We are only limited by that of which we perceive the limitation.

We hu-mans try so desperately to understand everythign and label everything, place deep conundrums in a guilded box with a little bow on top. In order to understand we must simply exist. not to put labels on everything that we think we can define. When I talk about conscious awareness I am limited by my knowledge of descriptive words that I can use in order to describe an 'experience' this is why one can never explain personal understanding so that everyone can understand. It must be experienced.

To ponder the fact that a single dustbin has a consciousness is limiting our own understanding of the universe and indeed our mind. However, the question still exists.

i've had many enlightening recourses with a dustbin.


you'd be surprised what is revealed.

i know the truth. it is NOT out there.

Originally posted by fooks
i know the truth. it is NOT out there.

Let me guess........its in the bin !

reply to post by franspeakfree



lol, close!

Consciousness is a dustbin in which different "savants" put
different garbage, see Wikipedia about consciousness. In
this sense of the words it is supposed at least a part of the
dustbins to have already consciousness.

Originally posted by realitydiscovered
Consciousness is a dustbin in which different "savants" put
different garbage, see Wikipedia about consciousness. In
this sense of the words it is supposed at least a part of the
dustbins to have already consciousness.

I am sorry but I have absolutely no idea what you are saying? not only have you confused me but I have serious brain ache trying to decypher if anything you have written is indeed logical?

Please explain.

Consciousness is only a shell adapting us to the reality
whatever it be, hence it can be a dustbin itself. I’m sorry
the relations between consciousness and the subconscious
respectively unconscious mind are one of my priorities.
I wanted to say that consciousness is the convinient
instrument for speculations and an occupancy of the
other consciousnesses.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
....and the 'skeptical, closed minded individuals, actually stayed away.

i wonder why it is that if someone disagrees with you, THEY are the one with the closed mind? our poor strato gave a perfectly acceptable answer back on page 1 and was ridiculed for it. going through this thread i have doubts that you, fran, even understand the question you have asked.

...Of course these words will fall on deaf ears if one does not know how to project consciousness and has never experienced a higher state of awareness. ...

fortunately for me, i am a veteran of altered states. so i will feel free to disagree with you no matter what feedback i receive from you.

feedback. hmmmmm...... feedback. now there is an interesting word. infraredman spoke a bit about feedback in his post (the only one in this thread worth reading).


if we can ever hope to understand these concepts in a scientific way, we must have clear language. this thread is failing terribly with language.

self-aware
conscious
alive
elan vital (life spark)
intelligent
processive
persistence
resonant


all of these words have very different meanings and are being conflated in this thread for the purpose of sounding super deep n stuff.

from the list above, i personally would ascribe a dustbin as bolded. it might be described as intelligent, but only as an artifact of intelligent creation. in other words: it serves a purpose.

a more interesting question would be "is a toilet conscious?"

well, it certainly seems to be aware of its own water level.



P.S. ohhhhh.....i just cant wait for you to come back and tell me that 'im just not getting it'. cant wait!

Originally posted by tgidkp
P.S. ohhhhh.....i just cant wait for you to come back and tell me that 'im just not getting it'. cant wait!

You simply aren't getting it

You waffle on with your own manifested superiority without even contemplating the question entirely let alone seriously. The question is (just in case you haven't read it) Does a dustbin have a conscousness. Its a yes or no answer, we don't need to go around the houses trying to be all superior about it, may I suggest you reread the question and then come back when you fully understand it. As it is perfectly clear you don't.

fortunately for me, i am a veteran of altered states. so i will feel free to disagree with you no matter what feedback i receive from you.

I find that entirely unplausable due to the fact that you writing suggest that your massaging your ego, if you were indeed a veteran of altered states you would know that the very first thing to try and get past would be the ego. Looks to me as though you have been left on the starting blocks.

Tsukumogami

according to the belief of "tsukumogami" it could gain consciousness after it was 100 years old.

Originally posted by bismos
Tsukumogami

according to the belief of "tsukumogami" it could gain consciousness after it was 100 years old.

Its members like youself that give me a reason to stick around. I applaud your post with sincerity. I am always looking to learn something new and I am fascinated with how the east views 'life' I mean how the japanes come to this conclusions without some form of experiences? I find it fascinating. I have read the wiki and bookmarked it for further reference. Thank you.

The more I read what you have posted the more convinced I am by the fact that this all came about by this by the japanese entering a higher state of awareness and tapping in to the 'hidden knowledge' I mean to say that many people under the influence of certain natural substances have documented the same sort of experience. However, I am not aware that any have actually talked about a 100 year spirit birth.

Several Pokémon that are based on inanimate objects may be forms of Tsukumogami

I have always found pokemon very intriguing indeed.