BIg Brother has eyes for the loners of society.

I know all this Jerad Laughner talk may be hitting the bitter dregs of ATS, but as I was checking my email today I came across this little gem staring back at me.

Dangerous loners hard to catch before they act

news.yahoo.com...

Now first let me say that I do not know enough about this shooting case to say whether or not there was some grand conspiracy behind him, or if he was brainwashed or any number of other things. I assume that he is guilty of murder and attempted murder, simple as that.

My issue is with what I knew would happen on the governments end, never letting a good crisis go to waist. You see I was just talking to someone today about how Homeland Security has found a way to criminalize what would amount to normal behavior. I for one am somewhat of an introvert and while I have no problems mingling with large crowds, I thoroughly enjoy being alone and not participating.

However, it would seem that with this latest event, not only are you to be viewed with suspicion if you are a conspiracy theorist, or speak out for political injustice; you are also suspicious if you are a loner type individual. Unfortunately they way that laughner was described in this article can be almost perfectly applied to me. I’m sure in fact that many people will fit under the DHS umbrella of suspicious activity even better now.
So with that being said, as I read this article I was wondering if this was the first stages of criminalizing people such as my self. For example,. Am I to find myself on a Big T watch list now because I’m a loner? If I say that corrupt bankers are stealing from America, will I be visited now by the homeland Gestapo agents?

I just get this idea that what I am free to think and free to say is going to be torn away from me. Yeah, I know this is old news, but I didn’t really think it would go so for so fast, I’m not really a doom and gloomer so this surprised me. The way they describe “These People” is sickening. The way they label Jared Laughner and his ilk as “These People” paint me red at the same time. When I was living in America, I liked taking my dog for walks late at night, say 10PM or 11, sometimes later. If I go back….I guess Ill just be visited by a cop huh? I noticed they played a little word game in the article stating that they can’t just stop someone for being or acting in this particular way and that it infringes upon their rights. But it seems to me articles of this caliber are designed to play upon the emotions of people who think Utopia is a country and Lincoln was the 60th president. Those people who think a terrorist is under their bed as I write.

So perhaps an outcry is in order among the countless people ready to throw their liberties away, to nip this kind “loner, conspiracy theorist” type in the bud before we have another mass murder on our hands. Perhaps it could be rigged to appear that was the case thereby stripping us of some more of our pesky rights, and allowing for an easier arrest. You be the judge.

Before I go off into a rant I will stop here. I just wanted to know if others feel about this article the same way I do. Perhaps I’m over reacting, but I don’t know. Personally I think the whole thing smells like low tide at the docks and it’s not getting any fresher.

Your views comments would be appreciated.
Thanks
Snow

You're right in some ways, it is often these sorts of cases that promote new laws or legislation to prevent certain types of normal behaviour. Here in the UK over the past 5 years or so there has been a political culture of this growing. Everytime a well reported case of crime pops up that the media latches onto it promotes new laws being enforced. I know we need to use hindsight to help make our laws better at preventing crime but it does seem to be getting to the point of ridiculous when now even some of these new laws are known to the public as "so-and-so's Law" referring to the victim etc. At this rate we'll end up with a overcomplicated legal system with laws way to specific to be effective.

I know of the 'Loner' prejudice the media/politicians/police etc have. If I ever used to go for a walk or a drive and it wwas after dark I would also get stopped by police asking where I am going and what I am doing and such. If you say you are just out for a walk or drive they automatically think this is some sort of weird and suspicious behaviour.

Originally posted by Okandetre
I know of the 'Loner' prejudice the media/politicians/police etc have. If I ever used to go for a walk or a drive and it wwas after dark I would also get stopped by police asking where I am going and what I am doing and such. If you say you are just out for a walk or drive they automatically think this is some sort of weird and suspicious behaviour.

Strangely enough it's that same police action that cause me to ...."want" to become irate at the moment I'm stopped. But you know we don't want to add fuel to a fire of suspicion now do we?
Thanks for your post, I feel ya.

I feel ya.

Circumstances and experiences with people have made me prefer the company of myself instead of wanting to mix with others, I feel safest on forums such as this because we're all fairly anonymous and there's little to no judgment like in the "real world".

Again, Loughner and his loner mentality could describe any number of people and yet as my own experiences show, even family members think wanting to be alone and get on with your own little pet projects as odd rather than going out into society doing meaningless things and since we've turned into a society where spending weekends downing copious amounts of alcohol and sleeping with the first person available has become the norm, apparently those who choose to do the opposite will now be scrutinised as potential future shooters.

reply to post by curious7


While your post is spot on, I couldn't help but laugh.
I was reading this DHS document today, wherein it said that if you see that someone is covering furniture in their house or restricting guests to certain rooms that it should be viewed as suspicious.
My immediate thoughts are "$#!@%%$^$#%#%" and then more coherent thinking comes into play, such as " Are you Freaking serious?

So what, I'm supposed to let Joe blow walk all through my house unabated? Personally I like having privacy and don't want someone seeing my dirty laundry if it's there. I also don't like letting people come into my apartment before they call first because I want time to straighten up.. Ooops Not in the New World.

That;s the thing, whether you wanna clean up or maybe you have something expensive that you don't want people seeing for fear of having your house broken into (like a friend of mine with all of his musical equipment and instruments, he never lets anyone into that room a majority of the time) doesn't make you a target for this kind of speculation.

People like privacy and now that right is slowly being taken away in case you decide to shoot the next public official you see in the street. Madness.

reply to post by curious7


It's utterly sad no matter how you slice it. What boggles my mind are just all the people who literally without giving it another thought will sign away what liberty they have for little more than a rumor.

Another thing that grinds my gears is how they say in the article that Jared Laughner wasn't on any terrorist watch list. It's almost like they are implying that if they just sweep the lot of that kind of individual into one it will squash a threat before it rears its head. Like letting the reader know that " Look this kind of nut ball could be anyone, don't you want to be safe and secure...:Idiot nods head:.... Then don't waste time contact DHS at the first sign of wacky behavior!".. Wacky, being the 1970s version of MELLOW. LOL

I can understand if a person has known mental health issues, or a criminal history, but come on.

It's all about TPTB using selective memory and targeted finger pointing to help the public aid them whatever way they can even if it infringes on the rights of innocent parties.

"Hey, those pesky 9/11 terrorists were Muslims, if you see someone of that faith report them and question everything they do, k?"

"This guy was a nut, he shot a Congresswoman and he had both mental illness and a preference for being alone. You know what that means don't you? Anyone with a penchant for either of those could shoot your child any day now, report them now before it's too late"

You know, I was born in the 80s and in the UK so I wouldn't know from experience but having seen ads, posters, movies and tv shows it sorta reminds me of those old US propaganda materials where anyone could be held under suspicion for being a Commie. Only difference now of course is that TPTB aren't so open about their agenda or suspicious nature these days.

With growing social networks, sites like these, gamer sites, a new generation of "loners" is emerging. The irony is that on one hand, they target loners, and on the other, they promote activities that create loners.

2 cents

It sounds like what the poster is implying is that certain forces in society want events like this to happen so that more people can be thrown into the "undesirables" pile in the public perception because "they are like the guy who did that bad thing."

This would explain why some people with obvious irrational and dangerous behaviors are ignored by professionals who should know better.

The actual strategy is to turn (almost) all of us into "bad guys" by letting real bad guys free long enough to commit atrocities, then using their personalities as examples of what is "bad."

Though we have some evidence of this kind of thinking at work (Nazi Germany, to go back in history a bit), the public perception seems to be that society is getting more tolerant, not less. And that may actually be true. So, what has to be done to convince the public that a group or type of person or type of behavior is "bad" or "undesirable" becomes more and more spectacular (and hideous). The thought that this could really be going on at some level is chilling. But I think it is very likely true.

reply to post by snowen20


I couldn't agree more, I remember thinking the same thing when I saw this published on yahoo.

I'm just waiting for people to wake up and realize fear of terrorists should really be fear of government.
When you are criminalized for being human and threatened and or intimidated for the simplest of human activities, you are truly under siege.
I fear the federal government far more than I ever feared terrorists. My fear however isn't traditional "Oh my God I'm scared" type fear. It's really a fight or flight type of response. As of right now I chose to leave the US. and become an ex patriot in the country I'm currently in. I feel safer for now, I feel freer at any rate. At least here I can go fishing without having all my fishing gear taken from me and being fined 500 dollars because I left my fishing license at home...A holes!
Or having the city crawl up my ass for planting a flagpole and trying to be patriotic. Did I mention I'm a veteran? Oh yeah I'm sure that's a whole new set of laws I'm breaking, if we look at the DHS playbook.

Some may be thinking why I care so much if I left the U.S.. What am I worried about? Well Because obviously I have family in the states who do see the world in a similar way as my self. They also are out spoken and like to inform the public about political injustice, among many other things.

Take my dad for example, he works at a television news station as a producer, and also runs a website similar to many other patriot websites. To me he seems like a prime target for questioning especially since he sometimes uses studio equipment to assist him in his personal website production quality.

reply to post by curious7


curious, it is exactly the same as the 1950s RED SCARE.
Look out your neighbor may be a commie! Is he playing loud music in a foreign language? Is he outspoken about the government in general? If so There may be a commie in your midst!

Just replace commie with terrorist, and it works every time. In fact there is a horribly accurate quote by a Nazi Herman Goering stating something very similar. many know it already but for the sake of formality Ill post it.

“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country.”
Hermann Goering,

See what I mean?

reply to post by Okandetre


It is a culture in the US, too. 600,000 laws and growing.

And people put up with it because of "divide and conquer". Find a behavior that less than half of society doesn't already engage in, make it illegal, and the other half of society will use social pressure to make the rest comply.

It is all so screwed up. I live amongst a bunch of wusses who feel that they have a right to safety at all times, with no personal responsibility for ensuring their safety. They think that, by laws, we can Nerf coat everything and remove all risk in life. I think they really do want to live forever, without risk.

This is where i think US tyranny is growing the most: because our People have no spine and are not willing to accept any risk. The Nanny State, and our emasculated society seems to be embracing it...disgustingly.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


It doesn't get any more point blank than that. Spineless, emasculated, weak. With this kind of crowd tweeting around it's no wonder society is crumbling into chaos. Taking over people like that is more than easy.

Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

It doesn't get any more point blank than that. Spineless, emasculated, weak. With this kind of crowd tweeting around it's no wonder society is crumbling into chaos. Taking over people like that is more than easy.

It sure doesn't get any more point-blank than that, bfft!

Starred and flagged snowen.

This "safety at any cost" mentality that the cattle in our society have bought in on, is by far the biggest threat to US citizens than any so-called terrorist plot. It's the biggest threat because as your Goering quote implies, it is by far the easiest way to manipulate the masses.

To hear this:

"Well sure it's invasive and a bit embarrassing, but as long as it keeps us safe, I have no problem with the pat downs or scanners."

Come from the mouth of a US citizen is chilling as hell.

Especially when the radiation from the scanners is more likely to kill someone than terrorist attacks, the scanners don't work, and it's all boondoggle to fatten Chertoff and co.'s wallets.

reply to post by snowen20


Gov and police have called me everything under the sun in my life, and now i am 35, and i still have not done anything.

The people more likely to commit crimes are ones with friends and girlfriends, but society likes to pick on people wanting to be alone.

Originally posted by curious7
I feel ya.

Circumstances and experiences with people have made me prefer the company of myself instead of wanting to mix with others, I feel safest on forums such as this because we're all fairly anonymous and there's little to no judgment like in the "real world".

Again, Loughner and his loner mentality could describe any number of people and yet as my own experiences show, even family members think wanting to be alone and get on with your own little pet projects as odd rather than going out into society doing meaningless things and since we've turned into a society where spending weekends downing copious amounts of alcohol and sleeping with the first person available has become the norm, apparently those who choose to do the opposite will now be scrutinised as potential future shooters.

That loner mentality has been the mentality of some of societies best scientists and artists. People who devoted themselves to their work instead of socializing. Myself, I am a loner not by choice (I'm a social butterfly) but by economic status and lack of money. The point is that it's not even logical. Even by their own logic. So are you going to pick up the scientist that just found a cure for cancer while he's on a walk in the dark? Maybe because he is always alone in his study coming up with a way to end mental illness, and thereby many murders? Oh I see...he's a murderer because he's alone doing these things. Gotcha. It simply doesn't work. You need a better profile than that. I'm against profiling myself but if you're going to do it, then do it right.

reply to post by mydarkpassenger


Sorry for double post but...does anyone remember in the 80s and early 90s when you'd have freaked if you saw the kind of "security" we have today at airports or ...really anywhere. If you saw someone escorted out of the line by security for a strip search, then we thought it was something serious, AND IT WAS. Now, we've given up our dignity and decided that the dignity that criminal lost for his/her criminal behaviors is normal for all of us. Show me how this is ok. Hell, this sounds screwed up but if they really wanted to win the war on terror they'd let americans go on with normal life and if a few more attacks happened we'd all get pissed of enough to enlist and go get them, just like right after 9/11. Of course though that would be an equally manipulative action. The problem is just that, we have manipulative people in office that don't see that lady justice is supposed to be blind, instead they keep giving her peeks of only one side. There are people who don't follow the law, but instead use the massive amounts of power entrusted them for whatever they deem useful, right, acceptable, or simply for their egos. Therein lies the true problem, we can try to get rid of conspiracies all day long but they will continue to pop up, right along with similar looking projects and similar acting ones that are right, good, and follow the law. This leaves us with the problem of making sure our leaders are truthful law abiding citizens. We have ourselves to blame for being weak of mind, weak of heart, and the mass populace for not paying attention to politics and voting...does it matter as much now? Who knows. The point is that we got ourselves in this mess. How do we get ourselves out is the question. Yes. A bold thing to say, that we got ourselves in it but it's true. Had we known the truth about all our politicians, generals, heads of agencies, etc. we would not have the corrupt ones in office. Freedom has a price, but clean freedom has an even bigger one. It requires every american (or other state) to do his or her job, researching and spending our precious time and effort on making sure we are up to date with politics and information on what we vote on and who we vote for, making decisions not based on personal preference, or special interest, or our own beliefs, but truth, lawfulness, and making sure these people do right. Yes different people will have a different view on right, but if we all did this we'd get the corruption out. I rest my case.

reply to post by tech53


Not only would it have been abnormal in the 80s and early 90s to have seen such ludicrous security measures everywhere but I'm tempted to believe we wouldn't have accepted it.

This society.."American Society" has become more and more gelatinous and lazy when it comes to doing whats NORMAL. Forget about whats right, just do whats freaking normal for petes sake! we can worry about whats right later. Though it's obvious that in yesteryear, (that being pre 9/11) anything normal was almost always ethical.