Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

science has most certainly made us as a species stronger, and its impact was definitely more crucial than that of economics, religion or politics.

That's absolute truth in the purest sense of the word. Every day we are learning more about our surroundings. We discover new technologies which make our lives easier. We can communicate almost instantly with almost any person on or off this planet. Religion took effect as an explanation for the strange occurrences around early homo sapiens. Early man knew nothing about the sun, other than it was a blinding object far above their heads. The sun illuminated their world. They could never reach it no matter how high they climbed, or as much as they walked towards it at dusk or dawn. Is it not completely logical that you too would think the sun was a god? Obviously we know the sun is a mass of helium, hydrogen and a small percentage of heavier elements. But we also know that the energy of the sun combined with the elements of Earth gave rise to protenoid microspheres, arguably the building blocks of life on this planet. This was discovered in the 1970's and is sourced here -->

science.jrank.org...

You are made out of the same "stuff" as the chair you sit on, and the keyboard you type with. It shouldn't be difficult for most persons to understand that the universe is "god." I read somewhere earlier that "god" is commonly believed to have created the universe in six days when because of the reality of the universe he would be constantly creating the universe all the time as it happened from its birth to its death. We are "god" (elements, everything that everything is made of) and "god" is us. This isn't some outrageous claim it's completely based upon observing the universe which we are a part of. You're probably thinking too hard about it if you can't grasp my meaning. I simply observe what occurs and adjust accordingly. I'm made of millions of tiny living organisms working in tandem to create an entity which can observe itself. Everybody gets so caught up in the trivial tasks of their every day lives that they forget about the small things.

reply to post by Dystopiaphiliac


I don't worship the sun nor the sun gods. I am, however, well aware of the duality in religions which goes way back in history. A religious system for the insiders and the knowledge/wisdom to accompany this..verses the religious system to the ordinary slobs and the knowledge/wisdom to accompany this. A dual system.
I am also well aware of the nature of many Occult religions and their dual/Talmudic methods of operations..including the body politic of any nations. And the body politic finances public education as well as science. As a result of this I have expanded this out to the arena of Counterfeit religions.

However ...the things of which both you and Mr. XYZ speak are of the physical...and I speak of the Spiritual when I say these things of science have made us better consumers..who tend towards defining ourselves by the things we consume..not by what we know or are. In this Light science has not made us better peoples..better consumers..yes..better peoples no.

And the 'Spirit is of something very different from the physical things of which we are made.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


There is no evidence of spirituality. There is no NEED for spirituality. A spirit is not a prerequisite of life. That is an OBSERVABLE FACT.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

There is no evidence of spirituality. There is no NEED for spirituality. A spirit is not a prerequisite of life. That is an OBSERVABLE FACT.

This point you are making here in this quote is amazing in its ridiculousness. I say this because I can make this argument for science...that the religion of science is not a prerequisite of life and this too is an OBSERVABLE FACT. What are you possibly thinking here??

I should also tell you or educate you to the OBSERVABLE FACT that in the science of the study of man...Anthropology/Archeology ..one of the means by which such scientists know that a site is of man verses animals is the signs/evidence of worship. The trappings of worship. Man's spiritual side. This too is an OBSERVABLE FACT. It just happens to be a fact seldom taught in public schools or on television. But if one does sufficient reading it can be found and learned. This is a KNOWN OBSERVABLE FACT about humans.



The single biggest factor in the wealth and prosperity of a nation and their people is their religion...it is not science. Not the religion of government but the religion of a people themselves. Is their religion conducive to them keeping more of that for which they labor and also have the discretionary control over how it is spent/consumed?

Once again...this is obvious in the case of Communist Russia. Everything controlled by government ...not the people ...from the ground up...from cradle to grave. They had dead inert economies...yet they had a heavy investment in science.

I find this ironic because economics is supposed to be based on scientific observation and mathematics. Yet no one seems want to explain or make this obviousness plain about Soviet Russia. Even today this observation is missing from our public educations.

Communist China is today doing well because almost all of their know how and technology has been imported from Capitalist nations,...ie...from the West. And they are working very hard to suppress the hunger of their people for freedom..even religious freedom.

You get the right religion amongst a people and prosperity happens rapidly..even science. Get the wrong religion and nothing happens. Feudalism occurs along with Tyranny...and the economics and people suffer accordingly.

The best form of government...intelligent, wise, educated men can devise..is tyranny...always. They may begin under liberty and freedom ..even religious freedom ..but they will always tend towards tyranny. And their economies will bear the fruit as witness to this transformation towards tyranny.
Education and Science does not help here. This is history..and recorded for those who can see what is there.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


It's hard for me to talk to someone that doesn't see the universe like I do. Maybe I'm broken. Who defines what broken is? I merely exist. That's what I do. I didn't choose to be born. I didn't ask for life to arise on "planet Earth." I exist, and I observe what else exists around me. Science is NOT a religion. Completely erase the word "science" from your vocabulary because it means nothing to me. What means something to me is that existence is an obvious reality and there are humans on Earth that observe the occurrences around them and seek answers to why things happen. I can't even come up with a response to your response. My mind is doing back flips trying to comprehend how you view existence? Do you think there's a right and wrong? Do you think the entirety of Earth couldn't perish in a millisecond from some unknown force?

reply to post by orangetom1999


One last tidbit to add.. every government is made of individual people. You talk about the government of Russia as if it itself is some living thing.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

It's hard for me to talk to someone that doesn't see the universe like I do. Maybe I'm broken. Who defines what broken is? I merely exist. That's what I do. I didn't choose to be born. I didn't ask for life to arise on "planet Earth." I exist, and I observe what else exists around me. Science is NOT a religion. Completely erase the word "science" from your vocabulary because it means nothing to me. What means something to me is that existence is an obvious reality and there are humans on Earth that observe the occurrences around them and seek answers to why things happen. I can't even come up with a response to your response. My mind is doing back flips trying to comprehend how you view existence? Do you think there's a right and wrong? Do you think the entirety of Earth couldn't perish in a millisecond from some unknown force?

Dystopiaphiliac,

You are not saying/stating anything new or profound here in what I am quoting of yours above.
Contrast this with what you stated in your earlier post....

There is no evidence of spirituality. There is no NEED for spirituality. A spirit is not a prerequisite of life. That is an OBSERVABLE FACT.

You have quite a contrast between the two positions/posts. I will agree with you in that you may be broken. Your thinking process is incomplete. None of us chose to be born, where, or when. This means none of us is sitting on the only one in town.

I will differ greatly with you in that for many Science is indeed a religion. All you have to do is read some of the posts here on ATS/BTS to see it clearly. However my points stand...life does not stop without science. It may not be as convenient but it does not stop.

Suggest you try Rene Descartes' " 'I think therefore I am. "

However your grist mill of thinking seems to be incomplete as you are obviously unable to deal with an individual such as myself and the pattern of my thinking. For some reason you seem to lack the resources to comprehend or reply to what I am stating...even out of history.

Give you an example of what I was thinking when typing out my earlier post

Science...observation...mathematics..etc...Economics. One of the simplest things is to balance a budget. Most of us do it every day..every week...work to maintain our finances within a budget such that payments due do not go past or exceed those amounts received.

Yet we have leaders who cannot seem to balance a budget..and they have all the economics degrees...learning ...learned men...etc etc etc. For all practical purposes they are speechless to account for it..and no matter how much they postulate or preach on it..nothing seems to change. I say this particularly at a Federal level as well as a state level.

Now I don't have to be very smart or of rocket material to realize that the product here is not that which is advertised to get our vote. I can even go so far as to declare that the whole process is a lie and a counterfeit of that advertised to get our vote. Then all I have to do is realize that there is a phony, lying , deceitful religion at work here...called Politics. All they have to do is balance their budget and thus manage the public felicity.

Economics...learned men...men of letters..cannot seem to balance a budget...do you think science can do this or is there something else at work here...something not desired to be seen or known by the ordinary peoples??
A hidden concealed religion at work. A religion not advertised or known by the bulk of the public ..particularly at election time when their vote is needed for the various political parties!!??


Not difficult to think this through...is it!!??

Do you think the entirety of Earth couldn't perish in a millisecond from some unknown force?

I am a machinist by trade with a special qualification as a nuclear fueler. I do not concern myself with such things, fears, or insecurities. I have put my life and safety on the line many many times for my monies. This does not make me better than other peoples..It does however make me quite different.
This is obvious by your responses to my posts.

Many of us are by nature and rote very provincial in our thinking...including myself. I do not believe you comprehend how provincial you are in your thinking.

One last tidbit to add.. every government is made of individual people. You talk about the government of Russia as if it itself is some living thing.

You are demonstrating your provincialism in thinking here with the above quote. I do indeed speak of the government and particularly the Soviet Government as a living thing. A thing of destruction..and not conducive to prosperity and economic stability. A negative influence on peoples daily lives. Most governments are indeed this way and history bears this out. They may start out well but as I posted earlier ..they always tend and trend towards tyranny and feudalism...royalty for the government and not the peoples individual liberty. Governments always trend and tend towards taking more and more production away from the people and thus the prosperity of a nation. History bears this out.

One fingerprint I have found concerning many on ATS/BTS who are heavily invested in the Religion of Science...and that is that History is not their forte. Many of them avoid it at all costs. Science is much more of instant gratification religion/philosophy to them. History is not. And many of them do like to glory in the Religion of Science.

Nonetheless..I stand by what I stated..Science has made us better consumers..not better peoples.

Thanks,
Orangetom