Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

Men are becoming less powerful and religion is becoming less powerful. I wonder if there is a connection.

It is odd I find, a new orthodoxy is being enforced by atheists. Orthodoxy sucks whether it's religion or atheism. Stupidity is stupidity.

Beliefs are beliefs, doesn't matter if you are an atheist or religious person. People forget that personality largely influences whether you are atheist or religious. So really what is happening is an attempt to enforce personality, and there is no right or wrong personality. People are people...

reply to post by ghaleon12

Beliefs are beliefs, doesn't matter if you are an atheist or religious person.

Atheists "lack" beliefs my friend so it certainly does matter

People forget that personality largely influences whether you are atheist or religious.

I'm sorry but I have to correct you again, where you are born, parental and peer pressure ability to think critically, credulity and education have the greatest influence.

reply to post by Advantage


Yes, it is true. There is open and proud harassment of Christians in Britian. It is politically correct. BBC has a lot to do with it. Lefty humanists doing it in the name of "sensitivity" to Muslims is the latest and most effect campaign in the harassment of Christians and the erasure of their thought, history and culture. Brits don't exactly have a history of religious tolerance for one another. For now it's Islam all the way as the political and social vehicle to cleanse the last vestiages of Christianity from Britian. Those BBC news readers will look lovely in Burkahs.

Are Christians being persecuted? On this thread they certainly are. Most of the criticism seems to be of the sweeping generalising kind that only creates ill feeling while claiming a righteous agenda. If you wish to label every Christian self-righteous then you will inevitably be erroneously labelling people; if you defend all Christians as being 'good people', then you'll be excusing some people's 'unholy' behaviour. I live in the UK and apart from seeing churches in every town and the annual celebrations at Christmas, I wouldn't even know this was a Christian nation - I certainly can't recall the last time any Christian tried to force their opinion on me. I don't think it's ever happened and while not Christian, you'd be hard pushed to find anybody that refers to Jesus more than I do.

I disagree with organised religion and believe - as I do with party politics - it to be an enemy of truth and justice. Having said that, in my experience and unlike party politics, most people of faith are made better people for it.

The biggest conspiracy of them all is the one to keep man away from God and you know who's behind that one. It's the oldest story there is: good versus evil. Jesus is the closest the good guys have come to the truth so far and when he returns I dare say a whole load of Christians won't even recognise him, while maybe even the odd atheist will. The devil creates or infiltrates communities and then stirs ill-feeling from within; the devil created or guided every religion including Christianity which is how the money lenders seized control of the world from the Christian west - the irony!

Jesus understood evil and his very purpose was to lead a fight against it - he knew it would end up like this and it is of the utmost importance to the bad guys, that the good guys are kept soft.

'Men will come perhaps, claiming I have come to cast peace upon the Earth; they are in error, I have come to cast dissention upon the Earth: fire, sword and war. Five will be in a household, three will stand against two , two against three, father against son and they will stand solitary' - Jesus from the gospel of Thopas.

'They will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure, but they will become greatly defiled. They will fall into the name of error and into the hand of an evil cunning man and a manifold dogma - they will be ruled heretically' - What would appear to be Jesus' comments on mainstream Christianity.

Who else knows what the enemy looks like? I do and it scares them. Like Jesus intimated - it will divide families, but looking on the bright side - you've got eternity to get over the trauma.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

Beliefs are beliefs, doesn't matter if you are an atheist or religious person.

Atheists "lack" beliefs my friend so it certainly does matter

People forget that personality largely influences whether you are atheist or religious.

I'm sorry but I have to correct you again, where you are born, parental and peer pressure ability to think critically, credulity and education have the greatest influence.

Hello friend. I'm sorry but I'll have to correct you as well, in a friendly way though of course.

They are beliefs, both atheists and religious people have them, if they didn't have them they couldn't argue with each other. Both sides are guilty of that. Keep your personality to yourself whether you are an atheist or whether you are religious. Simple. That goes for anyone. And no, it's not where you are born, parents/friends ect. since those things aren't the "self" which determines ultimately whether you are atheist or religious. If your personality goes against atheism, you'll tend to be religious. If your personality goes against being religious, you'll tend to be atheist.

It's a matter of personality that's why there shouldn't be any sort of enforcement from either side.

reply to post by sara123123


How is being sensitive to Muslims harassing christians exactly?

Your post makes absolutely no sense to anyone with intelligence, only to other bigots.

reply to post by lnr42


You need to read up on political correctness and how it is used in by the elite in Britian to abuse the rights and culture of the natives. After you read some, come back and sling around the racist tag.

reply to post by sara123123

You need to read up on political correctness and how it is used in by the elite in Britian to abuse the rights and culture of the natives. After you read some, come back and sling around the racist tag.

I have read on the subject quite extensively.

Not that I really need to as I live here. Unlike you. Go back to Stormfront.

There have been a few cases where civil servant working for the NHS wearing crosses have been sensured. As a card -carrying pagan let me inform that this censorship gives me no joy. When they are finished with the Xtians they will come for me. Christianity is not censored the way that Islam is. I have been threatened for being a Moslem because of my Dark skin. These idiots have never heard of Bosnia.

I know that nowadays everyone has persecution envy but Xtians are not persecuted. If their numbers decline, well It is not my fault and they must look to themselves.

Just my personal opinions.. Ive thought about this a little bit today..


IMO I dont see any persecution on this thread. Children lashing out and making themselves look silly.. yes. Others here who disagree with Christianity or are atheists handle themselves without the flailing and flouncing. Ive never had an issue with an Atheist in my life. I married one. Im happy to say that he has more class and compassion than some here and respects my decision to believe in what I wish. My children are exposed to all religions and the opportunity to follow none. I DO believe in free will and choice. If one feels his children are being harmed by religion or the religious.. sounds like a weak parent to me.I can not imagine that in Britain there are roving bands of charismatics cornering children and forcing them to believe something they do not wish to. If someone has raised their children weak enough to not resist religious coercion or the ability to be exposed to things without blindly following them... thats a sad thing. In the few years we had lived in London I never witnessed such nonsense out of anyone.

Basically we cant claim we are persecuted when we engage the ones we know are mouthy or known for being contentious. We also cant let our little feelings or tender sensibilities be too harmed by walking into a conversation with certain types willingly. I certainly havent been injured.Real religious persecution may be on the horizon, but its in response to certain people who call themselves Christians and in reality are persecuting others and of course hatred of religion that some feel for their own reasons. Real persecution involves a threat to freedom and life for practicing your religion, owning holy books, speaking of your religion, etc. None of that exists here. It does elsewhere.. in many places all over the world.... Id prefer not to cheapen true religious persecution by claiming this silliness here on the internet is anything approaching it.

I will tell you that over the years on the net ( Im older) I have seen many mouthy children and they will never express this silliness face to face. It is a waste of time to preach to the atheist. Theyre intelligent folks for the most part and with knowledge have chosen they do not believe. The intelligent atheist will engage you in a casual discussion rather than attacks. Theyll debate a Christian in a normal way without attacks.. specifically when the Christian isnt behaving like a lunatic themselves and demanding their beliefs be validated by the atheist. The real Atheist isnt so threatened that he or she will react with anger at any mention of religion. They wont see scary religious people behind every rock and tree. The intelligent and secure atheist is not afraid of religion or religious people... and comprehend the fact that people are allowed to believe in what they want.. if anything. The child will always use things like "uneducated", "fairytale" and etc.. when they can not express why they choose not to believe in things and why they feel compelled to attack anyone they see as religious. I try to be a Christian most of the time... and I hope they dont break their necks when they fall off of that pedestal they have mounted themselves upon. The arrogance I see out of some Atheists on the forum isnt really typical of the atheists I have met in person. In fact, I have never seen behavior like this that we see on forums in person out of anyone... anywhere.

As far as Christians on this site and others.. some humility would suit them. Maybe less paranoia and a little more restraint. It would represent Christianity in general much better in my opinion. Youd not enter a room in real life and start attacking people with dogma and threats of hellfire and damnation would you? Scratch that.. some actually would! Jesus lived by example.. not bully tactics and force. You refuse to treat the Atheist, Satanist, pagan, etc with respect and then expect them to respect you? Wont ever happen. Ive met and genuinely respect and enjoy speaking to several folks here on this board who openly call themselves Satanists and Pagans. I have never had issue with them and religious tit for tat has never been a factor. Jokes.. sure. I have never seen a human being accept something in a real sense when being bullied into it or forced to listen. People will listen when they wish to. IF they wish to. If we Christians are being honest with ourselves.. we produce some of the greatest hypocrites in the world. People who hide behind the collar or the bible while living nonchristian lives and doing evil things. You really cant fault the people for questioning our motives or why we would identify with Christianity when we have this long history of these things, enslavement, murder, etc. I guess its a knee-jerk reaction for some.. and I always wonder why the Christian is shocked by this. I have read church history.. from the catholics to the protestants to the evangelicals to the copts and beyond. This is why I say some humility would suit us all well. One of my closest and dearest friends I met in college, he went on to become a Jesuit priest. I am absolutely opposed to much of the Catholics dogma and practice.... but trust me, it IS possible to form lasting bonds and love those who are not of your religion or of any religion at all. You will not lose your Christian identity, unless it was never there to begin with.

Originally posted by tiger5
There have been a few cases where civil servant working for the NHS wearing crosses have been sensured. As a card -carrying pagan let me inform that this censorship gives me no joy. When they are finished with the Xtians they will come for me. Christianity is not censored the way that Islam is. I have been threatened for being a Moslem because of my Dark skin. These idiots have never heard of Bosnia.

I know that nowadays everyone has persecution envy but Xtians are not persecuted. If their numbers decline, well It is not my fault and they must look to themselves.

Thats the double edged sword.. ugh. The scary thing is that some Christians will holler persecution but have no issue with other religions or belief systems being persecuted or at the very least disallowed. You can be certain that if Christianity ( specifically with the global power of the Catholic church and the Vatican currently) were ever to be truly persecuted.. you will definitely be included in it. Your belief system may be perhaps the most misunderstood of all time. You also have lower numbers than Christians and are more at risk. We have a church on damned near every corner here in my town, but a pagan gift shop/meeting spot was ran out of town a few yrs ago. Makes one wonder what people are thinking in this day and age.. and exactly who is persecuting who.

Funny you should mention the racial thing.. Im native American and dark. After 9/11 here I was eyeballed quite a bit. I was amused... but still.. its strange. Im mistaken for Mexican or Eastern Indian routinely...People are definitely odd.

reply to post by Robert Reynolds

I certainly can't recall the last time any Christian tried to force their opinion on me.

It is mandatory in the UK that all publicly funded school hold collective worship, which by their own admit ion the majority of schools claim is "broadly christian in nature"

Yes the parent (not the child) has the right of opt out but this incurs a penalty that the child (not the parent) has to pay. The schools do not have to make provision for the child and the child is often subsequently isolated, bullied, ostracize and even "downgraded" by proxy .

Indeed the xtian conspiracy to ram their religion down other peoples childrens throats and begin the process of brainwashing and labeling a captive audience still goes on insidious and sinister.

Needless to say, people like myself are pushing very hard for this disgusting practice to be stopped, if you are true to your word and have any decency about you then you would seek the same.

reply to post by ghaleon12

They are beliefs, both atheists and religious people have them, if they didn't have them they couldn't argue with each other

Dude see if you can wrap your swede around this =

I am an atheist I do not believe there invisible man in the sky is real, this is a rejection based upon evidence or lack of.

I have opinions and opinions are easily changed whereas beliefs are almost always ingrained and very very difficult to change.

Not stamp collecting is not a hobby as sure as bald is not a hair colour.

I believe that my arse has a hole in it because the overwhelming evidence points to this conclusion although I have never seen this hole in my arse.

I am of the opinion that jesus is imaginary the lack of evidence leads me to this opinion so I choose not to believe that jesus is not imaginary.

Non belief is not a belief my friend

reply to post by tiger5

There have been a few cases where civil servant working for the NHS wearing crosses have been sensured.

If my memory serves me, the incidents one was an air hostess I'm sure were in relation to regulation on jewelry being on display not the type of jewelry being on display.

Why the hell anyone would wear a Roman instrument of execution and torture around their neck is beyond me anyway, just as well be a gun or waterboard.

reply to post by The Djin

Originally posted by ghaleon12
It is odd I find, a new orthodoxy is being enforced by atheists. Orthodoxy sucks whether it's religion or atheism. Stupidity is stupidity.

Beliefs are beliefs, doesn't matter if you are an atheist or religious person. People forget that personality largely influences whether you are atheist or religious. So really what is happening is an attempt to enforce personality, and there is no right or wrong personality. People are people...

I'm sticking to what I said. If you want to further address that, then go ahead.

Try to be respectful, ignoring that doesn't help convey anything you say. I tend to be an atheist/objective but I see where both sides have flaws.

Good.

Consign the Abrahamic mythology to the same waste dump as Greek, Roman and Egyptian etc pantheon.

Time to move on, forward and up - leave behind the ghosts of the past, we can be so much more as a species than being caught up in infantile wish-fulfillment.

reply to post by The Djin


Sounds like England perhaps a bit.

Well, God help them if I ever visit. I am quite vocal, and being called this so-named "nutter" would be an honor.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by tiger5

 

There have been a few cases where civil servant working for the NHS wearing crosses have been sensured.

If my memory serves me, the incidents one was an air hostess I'm sure were in relation to regulation on jewelry being on display not the type of jewelry being on display.

Why the hell anyone would wear a Roman instrument of execution and torture around their neck is beyond me anyway, just as well be a gun or waterboard.

Yes the air hostess was another one and there was a nurse who offered to pray for someone. I have no problem and again would not want anyone censured by such a thing.

Who cares what people choose to wear? It is none of my business. I am liberal like that. If any Xtian offered to pray for me I would offer a polite "no thanks". There is no need to bust a gut over it. I would not have gone into high dudgeon or cardiac arrest. I would not even have reported them to their supervisors or managers. In Fact offering to pray for someone is a kindness as the Xtian is givng up their precious time to pray for you.

Fact is I have been royally hassled by Xtians in the past. I am tougher than that so survived easily and also left the past in the past and chose to look to the future.

reply to post by VelvetSplash


Technically the Egyptian Roman and Greek gods never went away. Christians simply took the names and temples and changed them to saints and Christian leaders, according to their attributes.

I would argue that it will never die. And that all societies go through Atheistic and religious highs and lows.

Now if you think it's moving on or progressing to go past them, then quite frankly you are denying history. Because overwhelmingly, up till Twain, religious people were the progressives. And even after Twain. It wasn't until the 1960s that people with no faith were actually leading progressive movements. Now, it seems the religious people are taking back the position. So exactly who is progressive?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by The Djin

 

Sounds like England perhaps a bit.

Well, God help them if I ever visit. I am quite vocal, and being called this so-named "nutter" would be an honor.

Thats a good thing, at least you can say your not them.