Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

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posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by Vicky32
 


hi - please try reading my post again , and this time actually understand it .

to answer your accusation - no - never posted to H2G2 , but i would like to see some evidence of your claim

because to be blunt - the majority of stories i have heard that claim " i was persecuted for being a christian " turned out to be actually cases of " i attempted to force my beliefs on others and when challenged i ran away crying "




posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Advantage
Is this true?
My husband and I have spent a lot of time in London in years past and this certainly wasnt the way it was previously. When did this happen if true? Is it due to the overly sensitive Muslim population Ive been told of recently. Recently in like the last 7 or so years?


It is very true, there is a huge swathe of the British public that are sick to the back teeth of religion and are now finding the collective spine to speak out and beat it back into the bronze age where it belongs.

If Allah and jesus/yawhe want to fight it out well they can bloody well do so in their own closet with their own money and far away from our children enough is enough.

The Muslim population are no more nor less sensitive than the christians blasphemy is blasphemy the Muslims just haven't got the message yet that the british population don't give a flying monkeys if an invisible man chooses to get upset or one of his minions does on his behalf.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by Advantage
 

No it's not true, while Anglican Christianity is in decline in the UK, Catholicism is not, the UK is not unfriendly to religion, even though officially the State religion is the Church of England with queen as the 'Defender of the Faith'. we are quite relaxed, and try to tolerant as not to offend people, which is not always successful, admittedly. Views are becoming more secular, with Atheism, and Humanism on the rise, and certain Christians who take a progressive Liberal view to their religion. There is a certain intolerance for backward religious thinking, but I wouldn't say it was unfriendly toward religions in general. If Jeremy Vine wants to talk about his faith he is welcome to, I've no idea what he is wittering on about, but then again he's always wittering on about something. it breaks down like this

Christian (Anglican, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist) 71.6%, Muslim 2.7%, Hindu 1%, other 1.6%, unspecified or none 23.1% (2001 census)

(Unspecified or none basically meaning atheist), we are constantly being told by Right Wing nutters, that Islam is taking over but as you can see from them figures it's not the case.

The main reason why Christians feel like they are being pushed out is that there is little to no religious broadcasting on British TV, when there used be quite a lot also people may still believe in God, but they don't go to Church, I personally am an atheist and spend most Sunday mornings with a rampant hangover:-)



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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Is it me or do others think that Christians like to be hated because it makes them feel more "Christian" ?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
Please don't take this the wrong way christians , but why should you be treated any differently than any other brainwashing cult ?
I find Christians are generally bigotted , self righteous and spiritually unable to walk without a crutch .

Your religion is based on a ficticious character from an ill documented history .

These are my beliefs . would you ridicule them ?

Oh gladly, if that were an invitation! Your beliefs are merely angry prejudices. And your spelling sucks!

I find internet atheists far more self-righteous than the most self-righteous American televangelist.. What argument will you trot out next? Paedophile priests? Poor persecuted gays? Creationists?
What about a story about how as a precocious 9 year old, you realised that everyone around you was in awe of your stellar brain-power, and that it was your duty to speak out against the evils of religion. However, you never attack Judaism, because it bites back - or Hinduism because you've managed to miss all the news stories of their extraordinary recent violence. (Because you literally didn't see what you didn't want to notice.)
Vicky



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:02 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 





UTTER TWADDLE .


I agree




Mr Vine is being an over sensetive neurotic

I agree





it is not " socially unacceptable " to be a christian - but it is now socially acceptable not to be and even GASP publicily challenge the veracity of religious dogmas .


I agree




thats what Mr Vine and his ilk are really afraid of - the simple fact that " god did it " is no longer the unchallenged answer to everything they do not understand


I don't disagree. They are now also face with Allah might have done it lol.






its my opinion that Mr Vine has his head stuck well and truely in the past , in a time when the masses were cowed by threats of damnation from the pulpit now they are not , he and his kind need to be dragged , kicking and screaming if nessecary - into the 21st century - and learn that thier dogma is no longer accepted without question thats what really scares Mr Vine - its only a miniscule minority that actually care whether he is a christian and hold it against him , what worries him is the much large minority who no longer believe Mr Vines beliefs , just because they are told to backed by the " authority " that ` god says so ` and ` its in the bible `


I agree






so - come on Mr Vine and all like him - stop whimpering in a corner and come out and argue your case in free debate - the days of your monoploy are gone - get over it


here here.

Shame I hadn't had time to finish my opening post lol



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
Please don't take this the wrong way christians , but why should you be treated any differently than any other brainwashing cult ?
I find Christians are generally bigotted , self righteous and spiritually unable to walk without a crutch .

Your religion is based on a ficticious character from an ill documented history .

These are my beliefs . would you ridicule them ?

Oh gladly, if that were an invitation! Your beliefs are merely angry prejudices. And your spelling sucks!

I find internet atheists far more self-righteous than the most self-righteous American televangelist.. What argument will you trot out next? Paedophile priests? Poor persecuted gays? Creationists?
What about a story about how as a precocious 9 year old, you realised that everyone around you was in awe of your stellar brain-power, and that it was your duty to speak out against the evils of religion. However, you never attack Judaism, because it bites back - or Hinduism because you've managed to miss all the news stories of their extraordinary recent violence. (Because you literally didn't see what you didn't want to notice.)
Vicky


And if all else fails , Christians forget their beliefs and resort to personal attacks . How very Christian of them



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
Is it me or do others think that Christians like to be hated because it makes them feel more "Christian" ?


it's their job to be hated and martyred, the circular reasoning is this makes their case.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee
 





The main reason why Christians feel like they are being pushed out is that there is little to no religious broadcasting on British TV,


Your kidding right ?

And why should there be when there is no "nonreligious" broadcasting ?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by The Djin

Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
Is it me or do others think that Christians like to be hated because it makes them feel more "Christian" ?


it's their job to be hated and martyred, the circular reasoning is this makes their case.


Excellent response .



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Vicky32
 


hi - please try reading my post again , and this time actually understand it .

to answer your accusation - no - never posted to H2G2 , but i would like to see some evidence of your claim

because to be blunt - the majority of stories i have heard that claim " i was persecuted for being a christian " turned out to be actually cases of " i attempted to force my beliefs on others and when challenged i ran away crying "

Oh you'd be right at home on h2g2! Check it out... Hoo and EtB will embrace you as their long-lost son.
You are an arrogant little man aren't you?
If you look at h2g2, you'll see all the evidence you're ever going to get... But of course you'll interpret it to suit your sad prejudices.
One thing the h2g2 experience taught me, my father was right when he used to say "There's none as deaf as those who won't hear"... (NB - he was an atheist, in case you want to attack him as well!)
And finally - I have no further interest in 'debating' with you. Sadly, words like "closed-minded" and "troll" spring to mind...
Vicky



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee
 



yes, see this is what I am more familiar with. What we had noticed was religious tolerance when in London and really no tensions. Basically what you are describing. Majority Christians and other minority religions definitely tolerated and untouched. Recently I actually have heard of some sort of tension with not Muslim, but the more sensitive radical Muslim rhetoric being shouted in the street.. and even that tolerated. Though the friends who were speaking of it did seem unnerved ....given the shouted subject matter. They did say that is not the norm and there was generally no issue with the Muslim community other than the few "nutters" who take to shouting rhetoric and that has been only relatively recently. Ive been told of a Muslim sensitivity but really have no proof other than a friend's opinion. We actually DO have that here in the states.. it just seems to be handled differently here. We've kind of catered to certain segments and are paying for it in certain ways now.


For me, Im a Christian, though not Catholic, and dont see anywhere in my bible that tells me I have to aggressively convert everyone in earshot, beat anyone with bibles, or tell others they have no right to practice any religion they wish or none at all of they wish. Free will and choice is pretty self explanatory IMO. I have NEVER felt persecuted personally... and we have been all over the world. Perhaps with certain Christians it is their manner which invites persecution and not their inner beliefs.
I also dont see where religion MUST be thrown into every conversation and some Christians MUST be sure to proclaim Christianity like a badge of honor ( or cloak) in every situation. Perhaps some invite persecution and some might even really enjoy it. If the intent is to "witness" they are turning more people away than inviting and giving normal christians a bad rap with this behavior IMO.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Vicky32
 


hi - please try reading my post again , and this time actually understand it .

to answer your accusation - no - never posted to H2G2 , but i would like to see some evidence of your claim

because to be blunt - the majority of stories i have heard that claim " i was persecuted for being a christian " turned out to be actually cases of " i attempted to force my beliefs on others and when challenged i ran away crying "

Oh you'd be right at home on h2g2! Check it out... Hoo and EtB will embrace you as their long-lost son.
You are an arrogant little man aren't you?
If you look at h2g2, you'll see all the evidence you're ever going to get... But of course you'll interpret it to suit your sad prejudices.
One thing the h2g2 experience taught me, my father was right when he used to say "There's none as deaf as those who won't hear"... (NB - he was an atheist, in case you want to attack him as well!)
And finally - I have no further interest in 'debating' with you. Sadly, words like "closed-minded" and "troll" spring to mind...
Vicky


You seem to have one or two anger issues that you need to address , Vicky . Are you sure that Christianity is right for you ?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee
 





The main reason why Christians feel like they are being pushed out is that there is little to no religious broadcasting on British TV,


Your kidding right ?

And why should there be when there is no "nonreligious" broadcasting ?

Obviously you don't actually listen to the World Service! I do, every day. "Heart and Soul" purports to be about religion, and I tell you, no one ever told them atheism is not a religion!

Even on Christmas Day the programme was not about Christianity, but about how atheists feel about Christmas.
If that's not "non-religious" programming, then I am at a loss to know what you guys want!
BTW, to the plonker who cried bitter tears about Christians who when attacked fight back, instead of surrendering in tears, build a bridge and get over it.
The angry mob on h2g2, like you, constantly mistook the word Christian as meaning "doormat". The problem with that was, that being a woman, I had learned that it's vital not to knuckle under to bullying boys and maybe I generalised that a bit much?
Vicky



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


Christianity is losing ground fast in the UK. This is because of the continued decline in trust. It seems that every year we see yet another case of pedophile priests.
In addition, they are not changing. They continue to hold to outdated views and opinions. Like it or not, agree with it or not, society evolves, and the various religious groups have resolutely refused to follow.
If a show is in a completely different language to that of the audience, you have no audience.

In addition to their refusal to evolve with the rest of us, they are self-censoring. The idea of "political correctness" affects all sections of society. They still have the freedom to state what they think, it's just that they see the audience moving away from those opinions and rather than accept that they are simply dinosaurs with opinions that the vast majority do not agree with, they'll claim they are being marginalized and suggest that they are somehow "forced" to stay quiet.
It's not marginalization, it's simply that their views and opinions are outdated and not supported by the majority.

I would also suggest that many of those screaming about this are actually on the far right of their religious ideology. These are the kinds of people who would hold protests against gay partnership, gay parenting, religious freedom of others, women's right, religion in schools etc. That's not to say they shouldn't have the right to protest, but it is about hypocrisy.
People are far less willing now to be told what they should do, say, believe or think by these people, and they don't like it.
The general population will no longer accept some hypocrite in a robe dictating his opinions to the rest of us. Simply, we don't care what someone believes, just don't try to push those beliefs onto the rest of us.

The population has evolved socially and moved away from the Church. These people need to deal with it and face the fact that the only reason they are saying these things now is because they can't accept that they are wrong in the eyes of the population. They are stubborn and dogmatic, the people are not. If they had moved WITH the people instead of resolutely refusing to change while continuing to dictate, they would not be in the position they are now in.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:26 AM
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The thing is once citizens are exposed to and interested in science and nature, either through education and in our media (just think David Attenborough, Brian Cox). Then more of the myths of the bible are exposed, Religion no longer answers the questions most people have. I'm not denying it may be a comfort for some, but most people can no longer align biblical text with the reality we now see.

The thing is most of us still respect the right to religious beliefs even if we do not hold them ourselves. Seems like a fair arrangement



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Jeremey Vine is your typical leftist PC media, groupthink podperson - didn't realisehe was a Christian though - probably because I turn off whenever I hear his whiney voice on the radio.

However he is quite right - you are looked upon as a bit suspect by most people - if you are a Christian. It has been a steadliy increasing trend for decades.

TPTB decided to switch their mind control paradigms away from religion towards PC politics some while ago - quite strange really to see the hanging on of the true believers in Religion in the US being berated by the true believers in the new mind prison.

I do tend to have a lot of sympathy for the religious right in the US, Sahra Palin etc - they are at least trying to hold onto tested traditional values and commonsense - against the slide into the complete insanity of the progressive left pods.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by The Djin
 



I would also suggest that many of those screaming about this are actually on the far right of their religious ideology. These are the kinds of people who would hold protests against gay partnership, gay parenting, religious freedom of others, women's right, religion in schools etc. That's not to say they shouldn't have the right to protest, but it is about hypocrisy.


Here is where I can fully agree. If one expects tolerance, they better be willing to be tolerant themselves. This is my biggest issue with organized religion even as a Christian myself. Christians are no longer respected because they show others no respect and refuse to practice what they preach. "Do as I say and not as I do" does not work any longer in any religion nor in any country.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Brilliantly put


s



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


agreed - freedom of religion must incluse freedom from religion





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