I Was Cuffed & Choked to Within an Inch of my Life by 5 Cowards. Now I'm MAD.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by jboogienoj

 

Its private property and they do not need any reason to ask you to leave / remove you from the bar. Physical force (excluding death) can be used to forcibly remove a person from private property.

That's one of the most absurd things I've heard. Yes, they can ask you to leave, but they can't just walk up and assault you! C'mon, engage that pink stuff b/w your ears...

No way the choke was applied properly that's why your larynx hurts.

Properly applied choke takes only seconds:



Incidentally there are several things you can do especially if you did not go out in 45 seconds (meaning he did not have the choke properly) that are not allowed in competition. One is reach up and grab some fingers and peel them back hard they will let go quickly. Foot stomp his instep. Also since it was standing and you want to avoid going to ground there back him up into the nearest wall or object hard. This also keeps him from leaning you back off balance tightening the standing choke.

Purple belt level you should have had a wrist the second he touched you out of shear reaction without any thought.... Still you need to sue IMO.

reply to post by marinesniper0351


Wow this is some true words right here...reminding me one of many dirtbags I have to deal with back in the days....there was this one guy everybody afraid of in my middle school....he always win his fights....but when he meet me, guess what, after couple punches, I realize "damn, this dude is weak, the only reason he wins his fights because he pick on weaker opponents."

reply to post by hawkiye


TRUST ME I AM NO STRANGER TO A PROPER RNC. I was LUCKY. Understand that if I were to actually have fought back be it a stomp or whatever I would have been un-mercifully beat AS WELL as CHOKED WHILE IN HANDCUFFS. Not very good odds brother. Nope man, Trust me the Martial arts doesn't help with a sneak attack by multiple men especially while in handcuffs. It did maybe help me realize that I could out-last a choke, and I did. Which I am very surprised with. I myself wouldn't believe me, but thank god my friends saw with their own eyes because it is hard to believe.

Watch at 2:35 he talks about staying still instead of moving and wiggling where your heart rate will go up and the walls will close in faster. Again we were standing though.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by jboogienoj


Sorry I don't trust you and this is starting to smell. I have been involved with martial arts for over 35 years as a practitioner and teacher. You can't hand cuff someone in seconds even with multiple guys. You're not some superman who magically survived a proper RNC. IT WASN'T DONE RIGHT period or they were not trying to put you out there is no miracle explanation!

Resisting after you were handcuffed yes would be stupid. The time to resist is immediately before they hand cuff you and lay hands on you, which you didn't which tells me your full of it as to your experience. Anyone who grapples regularly 3 years or more will react without thinking period.

I am having a hard believing these guys just kicked your ass for no reason whatsoever and you did absolutely nothing to draw thier attention even if they over reacted, your story does not add up. I don't care what you friends saw they have no idea if the choke was applied properly. And your failure to go to the police and hospital tells me you are exaggerating things. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep shooting yourself in the foot by claming you resisted a proper RNC. if you had you would not have a sore larynx. If it was done proper you would have went to sleep and woke up wondering what happened but with no neck or throat pain.

Sorry but those are the fact despite your claims...

reply to post by robinmorningstar


Actually they can use physical force to remove you.

The first step is physical presence, the second is verbal, the third is soft hands (a prodding hand to the back or guiding hand), the fourth step that can be used is "hard hands." Once he grabbed the bouncer he made it legal for the bouncer to use hard hands. That is what the choke and physical removal was. That was the use of hard hands to remove a person that no longer had a legal right to be there.

Where I live the bouncer was with in his legal rights as a security agent removing someone that was asked to leave. The bar is private property and the bouncer is an agent of the owner. That means he has the same rights in dealing with trespassers as the owner.

I believe you and just wanted to offer some sympathy. I hope you will feel better. Please do go to a doctor if you are not feeling better.

Why I do believe your story, and other similar ones, is because I live in Chicago The cops here - yeah. Let alone security guards.

I have heard all manner of stories about police brutality here - hell - you can Google Chi and Police Brutality and watch all manner of videos infinitely.

I have avoided them, for the most part, no major problems for me, but - one incident has come to mind:

I walked down some stairs, and out a door - and as soon as I stepped out - BAM! I was spun around, cuffed, and being propelled through the air by 2 cops. I was then roughly thrown into the back of a cop car - banged around all over on the hard plastic back there, hauled off to police station, put in room, left there.

??

I was ANGRY! So I got up and walked to where the cops were, demanded an explanation, they got very hostile with me and grabbed me to lead me back to the room.

Then - I yelled the Magic Word: LAWYER

All of a sudden they got REAL NICE, apologized, took the cuffs off, and a female officer who was over friendly appeared to "give me a ride back home".

She did tell me, on the way, that there was a guy who stabbed 7 people at a party near my home (yes, this actually happened and I read about it and heard more about it later.) They had info that the "stabber" had run into my apartment building.

But still - I felt this was handled ALL WRONG.

Why not just STOP ME and question me - as I exited my building? The cops were all over and one could have CLEARLY SEEN (from cop car lights from alley and street) that I had no cuts on me, nor was drunk from a party, etc.

BTW - I am female, and the suspect was male. And - I had my pajamas on and a paperback book in my hands when I walked outside to see what was going on - if they would have just STOPPED ME - and TOOK A LOOK AT ME - no questions would've even been needed.

Instead - I am not kidding here - I stepped out the door and was IMMEDIATELY GRABBED and whisked away.

Yeah, I was resting in bed, in my PJs, reading a book - step one foot outside - BAM! Cuffed and Stuffed.

So after this incident, and a few others, and from what I have heard from friends - yes I do believe that all of these people - cops and wannabes alike - are getting WAY out of line.

Again, I hope you will be OK OP

- Not The Party Stabber

reply to post by hawkiye


Starting to smell??? Man Up yours, get off my thread. You're lucky I even addressed your crap. I didn't even have to explain myself but I did.

reply to post by MikeNice81


Again. Because I do not think most people are reading through all of my replies. I will tell you. I was given NO TIME TO REACT OR LEAVE. THERE WAS NO THREATENING BEHAVIOR ON MY PART. NOT EVEN A SMART ASS COMMENT. I WAS ASKED TO LEAVE FOR APPARENTLY NOT MOVING MY LEG FAST ENOUGH AND WAS IN PROCESS OF DOING SO.

I have been and SEEN plenty of altercations at bars. This isn't one of those episodes. I can assure you it was ABOVE AND BEYOND and had NO provocation. WEIRD BUT TRUE. And that is one of the reasons why I am posting here.

I can see why some would say I was in the wrong because usually THERE IS A REASON. But this time THERE IS NOT.

I can honestly say I'm not an angry or aggressive drinker. I was not hostile. I was complying. (even though the circumstances seemed odd) I was in a good mood. Maybe that's what pissed them off?

Sorry it just fires you up inside when somebody does you wrong for no reason.

reply to post by jboogienoj


I am not saying that you weren't moving. I even said that if you weren't argumenative, or confrontational, he was unprofessional to touch you.

You admitted that you physically put your hand on his hand. At that point he was legally in the right to grab you. That is the law. You are the one not understanding that you were in the wrong to grab at the bouncer. Even if you felt it was not threatening it was because of the place and situation. Plus it was illegal since you were no longer a welcome guest on private property.

I'm sorry you got hurt physically and - obviously - emotionally. It could have been avoided if everybody including you had reacted differently.

reply to post by MikeNice81


It's funny you keep not hearing the terms FAST, NO TIME & I COMPLIED. But that's cool man. Keep doing your best to play devils advocate but I explained myself VERY WELL.

In between me not being a wanted guest and him putting his hand on me there was no time given for me even to look back and say to my friends "guys we got to go"

I truly hate security guys now. Pretty much all of them. The bad apples ruin it for everybody. Truth is most of those dudes are guys I could see myself hanging out with but they really seem to be taking their aggression out on people who are undeserving and defenseless.

In retrospect it has made me think less of humans in general.

I'm all for 2 guys having a problem with each-other handling it the old fashion way but if you have to feel good about yourself by choking a guy out who can't even move or defend himself because he is out-numbered well that's just straight up................I don't even think you can use that kind of language on ATS.

While maybe only 1 out of the 5 guys went over-board, the others still let him choke the life out of me while they held me and cuffed me. I'm not kidding, it felt like a right of passage of sorts. Evil Pricks.

Originally posted by jboogienoj
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Starting to smell??? Man Up yours, get off my thread. You're lucky I even addressed your crap. I didn't even have to explain myself but I did.

LOL trying to kick me off the thread, what a punk

As I said the story doesn't add up and any time someone calls you on the BS you want them to leave the thread. YOu claims you miraculously survived An RNC which is impossible if done correctly. I Posted a video of how quick one can go out. There is no getting lucky accept to say the guy did not have the right position period that is a fact and beyond dispute which you would know if you were as experienced in BJJ as you claim. You claim you were RNCed and handcuffed in seconds yeah right. You claim you were limp but they were telling you to stop fighting, so they were just saying that to cover thier own asses with witnesses looking on???? Sorry no sale here. And you still haven't said how much you had to drink why is that?.

I bet the attitude you gave me was the same attitude you gave them only amplified with some liquid courage. Now go back to your computer game where you can pretend to be somebody your not cause it's not going to fly here!

reply to post by MikeNice81


Honestly man, you're a bit of a bone-head. Listen to what the guy is saying. The bouncer was out of line, attacked him! Well once you put your hand on him and you were no longer a welcome guest..blah blah blah. Dude, you can't just attack people in a civilized society. I'm sure you're very tough and all, but we have rules for a reason. Being a bouncer doesn't give you the right an assault!

reply to post by robinmorningstar


Yea you hit it on the nail, he's a bonehead.

I love your signature btw......that's exactly how I've been feeling since after the incident.

I would like to thank EVERYBODY who shared their stories and sympathy on this thread. I am over-whelmed by the positive support you guys had for me & the situation.......and most importantly, BELIEVING ME. I know ATS is hard on people who don't come forth with physical evidence, I too am one of those guys.

I needed to get 3rd party opinions without having to tell everyone of my friends what happened because honestly it's a bit embarrassing. And I got that, THANK YOU!

reply to post by robinmorningstar


No being a bouncer doesn't give you the right to assault people. The law gives you the right to remove a person that is trespassing. Once he grabbed the bouncer he escelated the situation. I don't care about time to move or anything else. The bouncer prodded him along by putting his hand on the neck/shoulder area. The OP then grabbed the bouncer's hand. At that point the bouncer had every legal right to protect himself and to use hard hands to eject the OP.

That isn't assault. No matter how you want to paint it the OP stepped out of line by grabbing the bouncer. The bouncer at that point had admittedly only placed his hand on the OP. He was not pushing or striking him. He was attempting to guide the guy from the bar. When the OP said I don't need a physical escort and grabbed the bouncer's hand (in the eyes of the law) he became combative and non compliant.

I'm not going to waste my time though. You guys are obviously right. The OP did nothing wrong and this was the bouncer's right of passage in to the super secret satanic bouncer's society.

reply to post by jboogienoj

I have several kids, including a son around your apparent age, early to mid twenties. The comment and advise I gave you was exactly what I would have told him. Apparently you have taken offense to this.

Well son, you just opened a can of worms. I gave you the most sound advise out of all of these posters, and just because I didn't join in this collective 'group hug', you call me a "Negative Nellie". You were looking for sympathy from the start, weren't you? You got yourself in a situation that both hurt and embarrassed you in front of your friends. You were in the wrong, and knowing this, you spin the story on ATS in order to fine tune it for consumption at a possible later court date. You were hoping that by looking to others, you would find a new angle to use for legal purposes. Why? Because the truth would not stand on its' own merit in a court of law. Knowing this, you needed feedback, reassurance, and HOPEFULLY, someone would bring up something that you had not thought of.

TELL ME I'M WRONG !!

You yourself screwed up in the very first paragraph:

"I'm sitting on a ledge about 5 feet from the bar. Comfortable. Laughing. Taking in the night. Yes, I was drinking. Never really liked the scene at this bar but hey, we were here. Security comes up to me and asks me to move my leg out of the path walk-way, so I do. But before I even had a chance to move it, this second security guy comes up right behind the 1st guy and says "You gotta leave" and puts his hand on my shoulder/neck. They were literally 3 seconds apart."

This tells me two different scenarios. Either you moved your leg right away OR that you didn't move it for three whole seconds, whereupon a second bouncer put his hand on your shoulder saying "You gotta leave". Did you move your leg AFTER being told to leave? I'm confused, which version is right?

Bottom line is this: You need to grow up and take responsibility for your actions. A man is not a man until he fully understands this concept. If this scenario had truly unfolded as you state, then you or your friends would have been calling 911 immediately. The fact that you did not, coupled with no trip to the hospital for treatment and documentation, tells me that you are basically full of crap.

Furthermore, the human instinct of flight or fight was not represented by your story. ANY HUMAN THAT CANNOT BREATH WILL FIGHT AND CLAW AND DO WHATEVER POSSIBLE TO BREATH. You lying piece of kid crap. "Yeah man , I got my pride, so I played it cool, and my friends were SO amazed at my coolness, heck, even the bouncers thought I was amazing. I couldn't breath for like uh, lots of seconds or minutes, but hey, that's how I roll.
Heck, even though I could not breath, I stayed totally limp, yeah, that was my strategy, play possum so they would feel bad that they were TOTALLY abusing me, yeah man, but it did not work, so I formulated a new plan, discussed it with my inner cool self, all the while thinking "Man, I bet my friends wish they had the type of discipline that I am showing.

Grow up son................ If my boy came to me with a story like that, I'd be ashamed of him.

reply to post by oldenough


*sigh. Old man. Stop stop stop. You sound really dumb trying to spank me on ATS for being honest about something that happened to me. And if I was your son, believe me you would be very proud.

Explaining again. Don't know why.


Ok. Tired of reliving this but here goes AGAIN. I moved my leg. APPARENTLY NOT FAR ENOUGH/FAST ENOUGH? THEN, as I am in a seated position WITH NO TIME IN BTWN THE ASKING ME TO MOVE MY LEG, THE SECOND (CHOKER) SLAPS HIS HAND ON MY NECK/SHOULDER. NOW. (This is where we get sticky i realize that.) AS I'm SEATED not yet standing because I don't even get a chance to FULLY STAND on my own. I was about to say the sentence "I know where the door is I can leave on my own" buuuuuut I didn't get a chance to even get the whole sentence out because he swooped down in a SURPRISE TO EVERYONE ATTACK, and grabbed me and applied the sleeper RIGHT THERE. NOW. Did I touch his hand? YES. But it was a small un-aggressive action WHILE SEATED. THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO TO THREATEN HIM OR ANYONE AND HE KNEW THAT. YES HE PROBABLY RAN WITH THE FACT I TOUCHED HIM BUT LET'S USE COMMON SENSE. Nobody would have been smiles and giggles when another man slaps his hand on your NECK for NO APPARENT REASON. REMEMBER I'm thinking "HUH I just moved my leg??" But STILL I WAS IN THE MIDST OF COMPLYING. THE CRAZY THING IS, I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE AN ATTITUDE WHEN I SHOULD HAVE!!!

If I knew for one second they could treat people like that and get away with it, for what little I did, I WOULD HAVE NEVER STEPPED FOOT IN THERE.

Anyways again, I have nothing to prove to you. I'm just telling my story the way it went down. I, and my 2 friends thought it was completely un-called for & over the top, FOR NOTHING!

I'm not here to get stars and flags dude I just think me and you going back and forth is like trying to argue with your wife.......sooner or later you just need to just Shut-up. So I'm shutting up because I could explain myself 100 times over and people like you will still come in here and try to make it seem like the whole thing was my fault and I SHOULDA COULDA BLA BLA BLA. Well I see it differently, AND I COULD - SURE AS TUESDAY FOLLOWS MONDAY - GUARANTEE IF YOU WERE IN MY SHOES YOU WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY BROTHER.

I'm out. This thread is way too long.