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questions for creationists?

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posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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1. If god created the universe 6000 years ago, how can we see stars more than 6000 light years away?
2. Why did god create HIV, AIDS, and Cancer?
3. Why would he create the Earth knowing that, without a doubt, it would come to a fiery demise?
4. Why do you disregard some bible stories as impossible, but model you're view of life off of others?
5. Why do you call anything unexplainable in the bible evil?
6. Why do you wrack your brains searching for reasons that blatant scientific facts are false, just to prove that your 2000 year old book written by an anonymous author is correct?
7. If you were born without ever hearing of religion, then picked up and read a book called the bible, would you take the stories as truth?
8. Do you really, truthfully believe in all of your answers to the previous 7 questions?




posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 


Just to touch on the first 2 points for now, just because something is 6000 light years away it does not mean it is any older or younger than Earth. Secondly God did not create HIV Aids and cancer, man did with his pollution and chemistry.
I do not wish to get in a debate with you but just giving you another take on the first 2 comments that you make.
edit on 16/1/2011 by squizzy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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First I'll tell you what a Christian will say.


1. When God created the universe, he placed light from all those stars close enough to the earth so humans could admire his beautiful creation.
2. God did no create those or any disease. The sin of man did.
3. Because man has free will, and his sin is the reason the earth will burn.
4. Most will say they think nothing in the Bible is impossible, but rather an example of God's power and something to model your life after.
5. Not sure what you mean.
6. Because the Bible is the word of God himself and can never be disproved.
7. I cannot say. Every person is born with a conscious and a choice to chose whether or not they accept Christ. In another body, I'd be given the same opportunity.
8. Yes, 100 percent without a doubt.

Secondly, every one of the answers is extremely flawed and non-sensible. However, you'll never convince a strong Christian otherwise. They will take faith over reason any day.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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By the way here are the main questions I ask, including my dad and mom, who are devout Christians. I was raised Christian but torn away from believing undoubtedly, by logic itself.

1. God is omni-everything. Meaning infinitely knowing and present in every particle in the universe; and beyond. Knowing of every point in time, and that even outside of "time". Knowing of the minds of human beings more than we know even ourselves. So, how does an all-knowing God create "perfect" humans that are actually imperfect. Placing them in a situation where they have access to commit the one "sin" he ordained. Placing Lucifer himself into the garden so he could tempt his "perfect" creations. When his perfect un-stained creations somehow decide to commit an imperfect deed, he proclaims the only justice is eternity in pain and suffering. But no, not only for the couple. For the billions of individuals that would follow. Yes an all-loving, merciful God sentences billions to writhe in flames and brimstone for ETERNITY, because the first two of our race ate an APPLE. A Christian may say, no but he gave us the gift of life by simply accepting him. Which brings me to my second question.

2. God IS all-knowing. Meaning he knew from before time even existed, before he even created us, each and every person who would embrace him. And each and every that would NOT. So yes, if you're not a Christian, every Christian believes you have a free will to choose between hell, or heaven. Even though you were predestined to burn by Gods knowledge. Because God created "perfect" humans with something called logic. Onto my third question.

3. Tell me, if your biological father told you "Do exactly what I tell you for the rest of your life, or I'm going to slow-cook you in a brick oven." what would you do? Stay, run away, maybe even KILL him? Newsflash: people don't like being threatened. And yes, Gods terrible wrath is the ultimate threat; a threat that nobody would even wish to think about for a moment. So by logic, we deny it. The same logic that God imbued every person with in the first place, turns out to be the same thing that leads to our apparent demise.

Answer my questions without saying "God knows better than you, he's perfect." or "Just accept it" as your average Christian would say,



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Not trying to attack any one, but a christian would say;

1. Satan made it to confuse you, just like fossils and ufos



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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I want to know why it matters so much to you what someone else's logic is for their own personal belief system? Why does it bother you so?

I am a Christian. I will not debate my beliefs with someone who approaches it in this light. There is nothing you can say to change what I believe, and nothing I can say that will change what you believe (or choose not to believe, as the case may be). I cannot prove to you that God exists just as you cannot prove he doesn't. I honestly fail to see the point of trying to debunk the beliefs of others. Is there some sort of satisfaction to be gained?



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 


I will try to answer your questions as honestly as possible. I do not pretend to be a Christian who knows all about The Bible or God. I attend a Lutheran church occasionally, but do not agree with some of the doctrines of the church itself. Probably because I was not raised under any religion whatsoever, is why I have problems with church doctrine. I worship God as I believe he wishes me to worship him in accordance to His holy word and what I feel from him in my heart.
I have found nowhere in The Bible that states that He created the universe 6000 years ago. Genesis starts with the creation of heaven and Earth and says nothing about when that took place beyond "in the beginning". The length of time each day consisted of isn't even explained, so I am under the belief that a day then may not have been the same in terms of hours as a day is presently. As far as disease and suffering, man became aware of such things after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge. I find Genesis 3:22 interesting: And the Lord God said, " Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" One, I am curious about "us" and two, God obviously didn't want man to be like this "us". See what I'm saying? Sometimes I wonder just who God really is in terms of "species". This type of critical thinking is considered evil by religion. I think God probably doesn't mind our questions because if he did, 1. He would have just made everything obvious to us in the first place. 2. He would not have given us the ability to be free thinkers. Notice, even though I have questions, I do not consider the Bible a worthless literary work. This is because, I have researched many religions and beliefs and have found most have similar stories and ideas. To me, this shows that although different peoples had different ways of describing events, the events were most likely true. For this reason, I believe the Bible is a correct record of events. I think God created the Earth and man knowing full well that we could not handle it or ourselves, but he still chose to allow his "project" to continue for a reason known only to him. Maybe this wasn't his first Earth and he hoped for a different outcome. Maybe he just likes creating. Who knows? I guess if he wanted us to know, he would have told us that, too. As far as the question, "Could I believe it if I had known nothing of religion", "Yes, apparently so, because even though I have questions, I do believe and follow His word". I know some of my thinking would be considered blasphemy by some religious folks, but I read my Bible literally. If it doesn't say positively about something, I consider it a subject that God didn't feel the need to fully convey. As an all-knowing God, he knows man will consider all the possibilities and maybe he chooses to encourage that in us. Maybe he knows that only those who can think outside the box can understand and resist the evils that are coming. The ones who aren't just "sheeple."



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by dccruibay
1. If god created the universe 6000 years ago, how can we see stars more than 6000 light years away?


I don't believe any such thing, and am a creationist. Some christians just feel like they need to know everything to appear more holy.

2.

Why did god create HIV, AIDS, and Cancer?


I believe life is a test.

3.

Why would he create the Earth knowing that, without a doubt, it would come to a fiery demise?


No man knows how this world will end.

4.

Why do you disregard some bible stories as impossible, but model you're view of life off of others?


I believe it's important to believe in something positive. You're Hindu? Great. Christian? Fantastic. You believe aliens mated with monkeys and had mutant half-god babies? Terrific. As long as you live a positive life (as best you can), love, share and forgive; why should anyone have a problem with what you believe?

5.

Why do you call anything unexplainable in the bible evil?


I don't believe in good and evil, or right and wrong. I believe it's more along the lines of understanding and confusion. And certainly nothing in the bible is evil. It's a book.

6.

Why do you wrack your brains searching for reasons that blatant scientific facts are false, just to prove that your 2000 year old book written by an anonymous author is correct?


Are you speaking for me? Because you really shouldn't do that. God is a personal experience. No scientist will ever prove or disprove a creator for the masses, if they did, then faith would no longer be. Faith is what sustains the soul. Remember this: It does not matter if there is a god or not, what matters is that we believe we are here for a purpose. Faith in yourself and those you love. Even if you are an atheist, love and live peacefully and you will have more treasures in heaven than any so-called christian that preaches fear and Hell.

7.

If you were born without ever hearing of religion, then picked up and read a book called the bible, would you take the stories as truth?


I would take them as inspiration, as with any book I love.

8.

Do you really, truthfully believe in all of your answers to the previous 7 questions?


That is an ugly question to me, but yes, truthfully.

I shall not be moved.
edit on 16-1-2011 by applesthateatpeople because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 


I will be the first to flag you for raising the questions that I often ponder. I feel that most believers in faith do not feel compelled to answer these questions for many reasons, pride being the first.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:39 AM
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I'm not a creationist, and I don't believe the earth was made 6,000 years ago, but some questions I had were,

1. If god created the universe 6000 years ago, how can we see stars more than 6000 light years away?
Let me ask you the same question. If the universe is only 14 billion years old then how come we can see things that are 47 billion light years away? The light shouldn't of had time to reach us yet right? But the problem is your argument is a logical fallacy. Space expands, so regardless of if the universe is 14 billion years old or only 6,000 years old, space expands and therefore we can see farther than your logical fallacy would suggest. Even if it was only 6,000 years old we would still be able to see farther than that just like we can see farther than 14 billion light years now.

2. Why did god create HIV, AIDS, and Cancer?
The problem here is to assume that if a god exists then everything that currently exists was created by god. It's a loaded question. First you must prove that god did indeed create these things.

3. Why would he create the Earth knowing that, without a doubt, it would come to a fiery demise?
Why does anyone create anything knowing it's just going to end up in a land field? Why did I build a gaming machine when I know it'll be obsolete in two years? Why do atheists leave the house when they know they're just going to die anyway? What's the point? It's just one of those things. It's just the nature of the universe perhaps?

4. Why do you disregard some bible stories as impossible, but model you're view of life off of others?
For example? Which stories are you referring to?

5. Why do you call anything unexplainable in the bible evil?
For example?

6. Why do you wrack your brains searching for reasons that blatant scientific facts are false, just to prove that your 2000 year old book written by an anonymous author is correct?
There is no such thing as a blatant scientific fact that should just be accepted on the grounds of authority. It's good to always question the evidence and science and keep checking to make sure we're still correct and it's good to wrack your brains trying to find new ways to test it to make sure it's correct.

Also, the Bible wasn't written by an anonymous author. Every book in it had a named author. But if you don't believe they wrote it that's irrelevant. This is just a form of an ad hominem attack. You assert the author of the Bible is anonymous and then attack that and say it shouldn't be taken seriously because the author was anonymous. This is a classic logical fallacy. First you have to prove that the author was indeed anonymous and then show how that's relevant to if we take the Bible seriously or not. Regardless of if the author was anonymous or not, does that have any bearing on the argument? For example, if we KNEW who the author was for a fact should we all of a sudden take the information in the Bible as truth? I think not.

7. If you were born without ever hearing of religion, then picked up and read a book called the bible, would you take the stories as truth?
I'd certainly look into it once I found out how many other people believe it is true. It's not like a science fiction book that you find in the science fiction section of your book store and you KNOW for a fact it's not true. Anytime you come across information that MAY be true you should look into it.

8. Do you really, truthfully believe in all of your answers to the previous 7 questions?
I'm sorry, but isn't it always the atheists telling me that believing in something won't make it real? What relevance does it have? Faith doesn't matter right?

edit on 17-1-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-1-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 


While not a creationist myself, I shall try to provide the most rational creationist responses to these:


1. If god created the universe 6000 years ago, how can we see stars more than 6000 light years away?


It is only in our perception that the stars are 6000 light years away. Perhaps something is wrong with the science - after all, there was a period in which we thought that bumblebees were physically incapable of flight, until we re-examined the effect of the vortices created by their wings. Maybe light travels faster in deep space than in the heliosphere - perhaps the sun has some sort of thin atmosphere, or electrical field, that slows down light this close to it, and further out, light can travel at speeds far beyond what we understand.


2. Why did god create HIV, AIDS, and Cancer?


Why did God create the devil that tempted Eve? To test us, and to prove ourselves worthy of Him through remaining true to him even in our suffering.



3. Why would he create the Earth knowing that, without a doubt, it would come to a fiery demise?


Consider the earth as a prototype, or a test run. in case we chose evil over Good, it would be better that it didn't go on for eternity. In the next life, when He has perfected us, we do go on for eternity.


4. Why do you disregard some bible stories as impossible, but model you're view of life off of others?


Nothing in God's creation can be as perfect as God is, even the bible, but with Faith, you can recognise which tales are metaphorical, and which ones are God's truth.


5. Why do you call anything unexplainable in the bible evil?


Evil is not hateful or terrible, it is simply the emptiness that comes from Godlessness. If God did not guide us to mention something in His holy book, then He does not care for it, or attend it, and it must be without Him.



6. Why do you wrack your brains searching for reasons that blatant scientific facts are false, just to prove that your 2000 year old book written by an anonymous author is correct?


It is not to prove the book correct, but help God's lost sheep return to His flock, by recognising the errors of their path.


7. If you were born without ever hearing of religion, then picked up and read a book called the bible, would you take the stories as truth?


Answering truthfully here, I did. But I was twelve before I could convince myself that something (anything) written down wasn't real. Roald Dahl, Michael Morpurgo, several very heavy books on dinosaurs - Everything in them was Truth to me, despite coming from a non-creationist family and not really attending church. It was only when I stared trying to reconcile all these different truths with one another that I realised words on a page didn't have to be true. I don't expect that most children have such trouble with distinguishing fact from fiction, but I would imagine that very young ones are more receptive to, shall we say, abstract realities.


8. Do you really, truthfully believe in all of your answers to the previous 7 questions?


Nope, except Question 7. That's the fun of trying on other people's shoes.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 

Do you know what "Creationism" is according to my Webster's New World printed in 1982?

"the doctrine that God creates a new soul for every human being born..."(Traducianism asserts that the soul is inherited from the parents). It then goes on to give the more common meaning (I never looked it up before).

I'm not a creationist. I believe in intelligent design. No God necessary (though I sure wish sometimes He'd come around and help straighten some stuff up!).

But the problem is that you are demanding logic from what is essentially a faith. It's just bad manners, I think.

The neat thing about intelligent design is that we all get to take on our share of responsibility in causing the world to be the way it is today. Possibly the design was less intelligent than originally hoped! Anyway, I think this idea takes us in some very useful directions regardless of the religious implications one way or another. Take a look, and you can even find a few scientists looking into mind-over-matter questions, which I see as a very important ramification of the intelligent design idea.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 


This would be more for christian creationists, but like most topics about creationists this seems more like an excuse to poke fun and ridicule rather then ask questions.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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What is the Creationist scientific definition of a "kind" as it refers to species and morphology of organisms?



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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#1. The more popular belief is that MAN was created 6000 years ago. But for argument's sake, if Adam was created as an adult, why would the Earth and surrounding Universe also not be created in its adult stages?

#2. I have fathered, or created if you will, two children. If one of my children invents a way to create black holes and destroy the Earth who would you blame? My child? Me? God? the black hole?
edit on 18-1-2011 by jjkenobi because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-1-2011 by jjkenobi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by dccruibay
 




1. If god created the universe 6000 years ago, how can we see stars more than 6000 light years away?

That is IF you believe in god and IF you think the universe is only 6000 years old. That is really only for the young earth creationsits and even they are divided on the eath being 6000 years old and the universe being 6000 years old.



2. Why did god create HIV, AIDS, and Cancer?

AIDS comes as a result of HIV and cancer forms inside someone nobody "created" cancer it develops in a body. It would be as ignorant as saying "from what organisim did cancer evolve". And i believe as well as many others on ATS that HIV and AIDS were man made.



4. Why do you disregard some bible stories as impossible, but model you're view of life off of others?
5. Why do you call anything unexplainable in the bible evil?

Where did you get this from?



6. Why do you wrack your brains searching for reasons that blatant scientific facts are false, just to prove that your 2000 year old book written by an anonymous author is correct?

What bible are you talking about? The bibles both have more than one author and the new testament is not 2000 years old.



7. If you were born without ever hearing of religion, then picked up and read a book called the bible, would you take the stories as truth?

Some people have, but does it really matter? Would you honestly have no problem if someone became christian or catholic in this manner?



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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I am not religious in any sense or notion I think logically and scientifically most of the time anyways. I really never have understood why science and religion can not coexist. Who is to say something out there didn't create the Bang, or made the atoms come together for life, or created adaption and evolution. To me it is just ridiculuse to recant facts, birds as a prime example, bears as another, or even the wolves in Yellowstone adapt every day and evolve every day. To me it makes no sense.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by Golithion
 


Star.

I agree whole-heartedly.

Science and religion can co-exist.

The big bang is still a theory and so is evolution. The two biggest scientific arguments against "creationism" are theories. Religion is faith and belief.

It's like watching two blind people argue over what color an orange is...

Can't we all just get along?



posted on Jan, 20 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by applesthateatpeople
 


Evolution is a process, the Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory and not just a theory. The process of evolution is the change in the allele frequency of a population, while the Theory of Evolution is an explanation of why and how this occurs.

Big difference between a theory and a scientific theory, and between the process of evolution and the Theory of Evolution.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by PieKeeper
 


I'm sorry, what?

Scientific theory seems to mean many THEORIES put together to form a mother theory. It's still all theories.

You really believe in the big bang?

I sure as hell don't. We need more evidence. A lot more.



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