Revelation; The roads to Armageddon, page 2

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reply posted on 20-1-2011 @ 11:19 AM by DISRAELI

reply to post by Archangelelijah

The views which you've constructed for yourself are interesting, but they're not what Revelation says.
This is because you're not really including the Creator-God in the picture.
Revelation being a Biblical and Christian book, it is centred around the Biblical Creator-God and the person of Jesus Christ.
That is why, from the Revelation viewpoint, neither the sun nor the earth are to be worshipped; they are both subordinate.

reply posted on 25-1-2011 @ 05:20 PM by pthena

reply to post by DISRAELI

I believe the real effect of Megiddo was on the minds of the people of Judah and their sense of judgement.
The king of Babylon would have had no reason to destroy Jerusalem, if he had not been provoked by rebellion.
Josiah's children would not have rebelled against Babylon, if they had not been expecting support from the Egyptians.
And I suspect that the defeat at Megiddo was one of the reasons for this belief in the reality of Egyptian power.

I've been thinking about this since reading it. See my thread What the Jews Accept From Their Messiahs It wasn't until I saw the documentary mentioned, that I made a useful connection.

The glory of Israel as a thriving commercial and trade center was largely as a result of Solomon's alliance with Egypt. By attacking Neco, Josiah was attempting to make Judea into a self reliant monotheistic kingdom. Remember that Solomon built many temples for many gods. I would almost say that Josiah's reign marked the beginning of Jewish monotheism.

Compare with Herod. Appointed king of the Jews by Roman Senate, anointed as messiah in temple of Jupiter. Ruled Jerusalem with two Roman legions. But the kingdom prospered materially under Herod. Later, the monotheists rebelled against Rome. Just like Josiah attacking Neco. Same result, city and kingdom seriously damaged by overwhelming forces. Temple destroyed.

reply posted on 25-1-2011 @ 05:33 PM by DISRAELI

reply to post by pthena

A very interesting comparison.
My first thought is that the fault in both cases was not monotheism as such, but the faulty inference that monotheism ought to mean independance from foreign political control.
After all, the most prominent critic of the policy of rebelling against Babylon, which was the immediate cause of the first destruction of the Temple, was actually the monotheistic prophet Jeremiah.
Followed by the monotheistic prophet Ezekiel.
Both recommending the kind of political submission which would have left the land in peace.

reply posted on 25-1-2011 @ 11:16 PM by pthena

reply to post by DISRAELI
To quote myself:

There is a monotheistic God that people have that starts with the beginning principle as being all loving and all wise. That One is far beyond human understanding. As we grow in understanding and in our capacity to love, we know Him better. We come to realize that old manners of thought and behavior are something we can go beyond. As we progress in love, we leave behind iron age notions of God, and become more selective in reading old texts to find what still reflects an understanding of God which is still better than us. We expect our deity to be ever better than we are ourselves. We expect that one day we will be like Him.

The above described monotheistic God is One that many people cherish in their hearts, Good and Nourishing and Teaching, ever spurring people on to better themselves and better the conditions for those around them. I like that God, and hope that such a One really IS.

Now contrast that with another monotheistic god, whose monotheistic nature exists only in his own claim to be the one. It is said that he wrote his name in stone back in the iron age. It is said that he bound himself to scripture.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think I may actually have a very minority view on monotheism because I can think of only a few others who have stated it in temporal terms, as in "one of these days God will be One." In the meantime, I deal with the gods. Current and past monotheism seems artificial to me. As if someone chose a god, synonymous to Ammun/ Baal /Marduk/ Zeus/ Jupiter (whose chief characteristic is having won chief god position by defeating in battle a previous deity or elemental force) and said, "OK, this is the one and only god and his name is **** and we just won't mention any other."

I'm fairly familiar with Jeremiah and his counsel to submit to Babylon, but there are other prophets who stated, or implied that allying with or submitting to other nations or empires was somehow adultery to be severely punished by the jealous tribal god. This does seem to complicate the matter for people just trying to do the right thing. Personally, I don't think I could have fit in with those prophet vs king vs priest societies at all.

I imagine that the Great Revolt against Rome in 66CE was a messianic move to gain full independence from Rome, so that the Solomon and Ezekiel and third Isaiah model of Jerusalem as capital of a world empire could be realized. (That's probably an oversimplification in order to fit it into some kind of narrative, I haven't really researched that much)

The Simon Bar KoKhba rebellion of 132-136CE seems very similar in nature to and possibly an attempt to replay the Maccabean rebellion of 166 BCE against Antiochus IV. The provocation from the empires was the same.

Hadrian built a large temple to the goddess Venus, which later became the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. He placed restrictions on some Jewish practices, which caused a revolt by the Judeans, led by Simon Bar Kokhba. Hadrian responded with overwhelming force, putting down the rebellion, killing as many as a half million Jews, and resettling the city as a Roman colonia. Jews were forbidden to enter the city but for a single day of the year, Tisha B'Av, (the Ninth of Av), the fast day on which Jews mourn the destruction of both Temples. For the next 150 years, the city remained a relatively unimportant pagan Roman town.
en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 26-1-2011 by pthena because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-10-2011 @ 11:10 AM by DISRAELI

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #32 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

reply posted on 19-10-2011 @ 04:08 PM by jcrash

Originally posted by SevenThunders
I've been to Megiddo. It's an excellent place for large armies to fight as I believe they will in the last days. Even the kings of the earth will join in battle. At that time the Middle East and possibly europe will be under the control of the antichrist, who will probably be a Muslim caliph. Waleed Shoebat, former PLO terrorist, now Christian evangelist has an excellent study on last days prophecy from a Middle Eastern perspective. He claims those nations that hate Israel will all primarily be Muslim.

Megiddo is not where Armageddon is fought. It is fought in Jerusalem. The armies are gathered at Megiddo to fight the returning Jesus Christ, who is returning to Jerusalem to destroy the 3rd Temple, Mystery Babylon, the church/ religion of Babylon.

Ezekiel 23:

1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 “Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother.
3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.
4 The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.

The whore of Babylon/ church is Jerusalem when the King of Babylon (the False Prophet is the King of Babylon) is ruler of the land and enforces the worship of the antichrist's god. The antichrist/ Jewish messiah king is co-ruler of Israel with the king of Babylon, the False Prophet. Here's some examples of this:

Jeremiah 52

31 In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Awel-Marduk became king of Babylon, on the twenty-fifth day of the twelfth month, he released Jehoiachin king of Judah and freed him from prison.
32 He spoke kindly to him and gave him a seat of honor higher than those of the other kings who were with him in Babylon.
33 So Jehoiachin put aside his prison clothes and for the rest of his life ate regularly at the king’s table.
34 Day by day the king of Babylon gave Jehoiachin a regular allowance as long as he lived, till the day of his death.

Daniel 3

28 Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants! They trusted in him and defied the king’s command and were willing to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own God.
29 Therefore I decree that the people of any nation or language who say anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego be cut into pieces and their houses be turned into piles of rubble, for no other god can save in this way.”
30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the province of Babylon.

In other words, Armageddon is the abomination of desolation, aka the 6th bowl judgment. As such,
the False Prophet, king of Babylon, is proselytizing Satan and promoting the antichrist as God.

Daniel 12:
9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.
10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

1290 days after the sacrifices are taken away is Armageddon, the 6th bowl, 45 days before the end of the age.

Revelations 16
Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

They gather at Megiddo to battle Christ who returns to Jerusalem.

Luke 21

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.

Maybe this seems like nitpicking or is obvious, and if so, my apologies.

edit on 19-10-2011 by jcrash because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-10-2011 @ 04:35 AM by DISRAELI

reply to post by jcrash

You call Armageddon the "sixth bowl" judgement, but this is not quite true.
If you look carefully, you will see that no battle of any kind takes place in Revelation ch16. They gather for battle, but they don't actually fight. The arrival of Christ and the battle are delayed until ch19, which is after the seventh bowl has been poured out. Hence the interpretation in the OP, that the arrival of Christ in the fulll power of God, which instantly disables all human power, is what constitutes the "battle of Armageddon".

As for the place-name, the theory in the OP is that Megiddo is neither the location of the gathering nor the location of the battle, but the location of the Old Testament battle which Armageddon is re-enacting and reversing. The similarity between the two battles is not in the location, but in the identity of the two combatants- God's enemies on one side, God's champion on the other.

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