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How can the IRS legally assume the collection for a mortgage lender???

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posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


I'm sorry about your dilemma, boondock. Try not to dispair over the IRS. They slapped leins on me and tried to take my house, but after 5 years of battle, I finally won. They even sent me a check back, with interest, and I did it all without a lawyer.

Your old mortgage company claimed a big loss to the IRS on your forclosure. According to the IRS, thier loss is your gain. Since your SS# is tied to the old loan, they put you on the hook, and the IRS will try to tax your non-existant 'gain'.

One possible solution is to file an "Offer in Compromise" with the IRS. You will be telling them that you do not have the ability to pay, and have no likely prospect of EVER being able to pay them. If you are persistant, they will concede. If you need a link to get the form, let me know and I'll look it up for you.

There are other possible routes to take where you can make this supposed 'debt' go away. You could dispute it, you can ignore it (they can't squeeze blood from us turnips), disappear, etc...

Best of health and luck to you friend.

Don't let them ruin your attitude, 'cause that'll ruin your life.




posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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Reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Not to mention that iirc impersonating a gov't official is a felony. In which case you will own that bank.

Can I have a job?



 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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OP,

If I were you, I would simply ignore the letter. As of now, the IRS has no way to verify that you received the letter. If it is legit, then eventually they will send you a certified letter so they can verify that the letter was delivered to you. If it's a scam, then they wouldn't waste their time or money sending certified mail.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by manta78
You may want to read this link for more info which I found in a google search:

www.irs.gov...=174034,00.html
or here if the link doesn't work:

Home Foreclosure and Debt Cancellation

Update Dec. 11, 2008 — The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007 generally allows taxpayers to exclude income from the discharge of debt on their principal residence. Debt reduced through mortgage restructuring, as well as mortgage debt forgiven in connection with a foreclosure, qualify for this relief.

This provision applies to debt forgiven in calendar years 2007 through 2012. Up to $2 million of forgiven debt is eligible for this exclusion ($1 million if married filing separately). The exclusion doesn’t apply if the discharge is due to services performed for the lender or any other reason not directly related to a decline in the home’s value or the taxpayer’s financial condition.

The amount excluded reduces the taxpayer’s cost basis in the home. More details. Further information, including detailed examples, can also be found in Publication 4681, Canceled Debts, Foreclosures, Repossessions, and Abandonments.

The questions and answers, below, are based on the law prior to the passage of the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007.

4. I lost money on the foreclosure of my home. Can I claim a loss on my tax return?

No. Losses from the sale or foreclosure of personal property are not deductible.

In some cases, you may qualify for free or low-cost assistance from a Low Income Taxpayer Clinic (LITC). LITCs are independent organizations that represent low income taxpayers in tax disputes with the IRS. Find information on an LITCs in your area.


hey thanks for that link


but 2 things to note here:

The mortgage lender has not wrote off the debt
that I know of. I have not received a notice of such
and I have not yet received a 1099-C for the
amount of the debt. I never knew I was responsible
for written off debt as taxable income. I didn't
write it off, the lender did.

and how can the IRS say that I owe them 100%
of that debt written off. I mean even if it is considered
taxable income, then the IRS would charge you a
% of that amount, not the FULL amount of the
income. So it still does not add up for me.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by netwarrior
Not to mention that iirc impersonating a gov't official is a felony. In which case you will own that bank.
Can I have a job?


dude, as much as i dislike banks,
banking would be the last job i
would ever do



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Not a tax expert or an attorney so can not provide legal advice to you in that regards. I would assume that you would have received a statement from the mortgage company detailing what the balance was before the foreclosure, what the house sold for (assuming it was sold) and how the proceeds were applied, then the remaining balance with a notice of defiency demand to you. If not, they may have jumped the gun, so to speak in the process, (reporting a pre-balance amount vs. post sale balance) which is not an uncommon thing nowadays if you read some of the stories about same on the net. As others have indicated, you really need to get an expert involved in the process asap. Again, just guessing, but don't think they are saying you owe X amount of dollars which was the mortgage amount you indicate, just that income tax is owed on a balance reported by your former lender, which of course would be based upon whatever tax rate you are at. Wishing you only the very best in resolving this
issue.
edit on 16-1-2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Perhapse you could post this letter (sans personal info) so it can be read by different eyes.

Is it form 1099-C ?

I remember hearing something about the IRS declaring that the differance between what the property owner owes and what the banks that repoed or allowed a short sale actually recovered is to be considered income for the owner that was forclosed.

For example if the forclosed property had a ballance of $200K and the bank determined the value of the property is now only $120k then the difference in this case is $80K the IRS looks at this $80K as taxable income due and payable by the the person that was forclosed upon by the bank.

Another example would be a "short sale" the bank agrees to allow the mtg payer to sell the property for less than is owed and will forgive the difference. The mortgage payer owes $200k and bank agrees to let the mtg payer sell the property for $100K the bank then takes the proceeds from the sale, in this case $100K, and forgives the ballance of the original amount owed, The amount forgiven by the bank ,$100K, is then considered taxable income recieved by the the mtg payer.

In the example above the former mtg payer will be taxed as if he/she had earned the $100K that was forgiven.

*************************************************************************************************************************
snip from outside SOURCE Cancellation of Indebtedness (Debt)www.keytlaw.com

If you borrow money from a commercial lender and the lender later cancels or forgives the debt, you may have to include the cancelled amount in income for income tax purposes, depending on the circumstances. When you borrowed the money you were not required to include the loan proceeds in income because you had an obligation to repay the lender. When that obligation is forgiven or discharged and no longer collectible, the amount you received as loan proceeds is reportable as income because you no longer have an obligation to repay the lender. The lender is usually required to report the amount of the canceled debt to you and the IRS on an IRS Form 1099-C, Cancellation of Debt.

Here’s a very simplified example. You borrow $10,000 and default on the loan after paying back $2,000. If the lender is unable to collect the remaining debt from you, there is a cancellation of debt of $8,000, which generally is taxable income to you.

END
**************************************************************************************************************************
I hope this helps



edit on 16-1-2011 by deepred because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by manta78
Not a tax expert or an attorney so can not provide legal advice to you in that regards. I would assume that you would have received a statement from the mortgage company detailing what the balance was before the foreclosure, what the house sold for (assuming it was sold) and how the proceeds were applied, then the remaining balance with a notice of defiency demand to you. If not, they may have jumped the gun, so to speak in the process, (reporting a pre-balance amount vs. post sale balance) which is not an uncommon thing nowadays if you read some of the stories about same on the net. As others have indicated, you really need to get an expert involved in the process asap. Again, just guessing, but don't think they are saying you owe X amount of dollars which was the mortgage amount you indicate, just that income tax is owed on a balance reported by your former lender, which of course would be based upon whatever tax rate you are at. Wishing you only the very best in resolving this
issue.

yes I did get a notice about what the balance was and what they sold the house for
and the remaining difference. And I will say that was some of the most funky math
I had ever seen. They presented a demand for that payment at that time from the
mortgage lender.

The notice I just got (supposedly from the IRS) was for the full amount that
was listed on that first notice. There was no taxable rate of that amount
or no tax table used. It was for the FULL amount. Their exact words on
the letter was:

B: Amount of Tax Debt
$XX,XXX.XX



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


I haven't read everyone else's comments yet, but wanted to tell you quickly that if you have any money in checking pull it out ASAP. Same with your savings, safety deposit boxes, etc. The WILL levy everything they can. It does not matter if it is 10.00 dollars. If you are married and have seperate accounts even if the debt was in your name alone they WILL levy your wife's accounts as well.

I am sorry you are going through this.
It is a sad state of affairs.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


what is the "tag line" or explination of the irs amount?
on the bill the irs must itemize the charges
what is itemized next to the dollar amount?
not the figuar
xp



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by deepred
 

yes I understand what u r saying here.
But I have not received a 1099-C
and have not received a notice from the lender
that the debt was canceled.

And the debt owed to the IRS (supposedly) is the FULL
amount of the remaining mortgage, not a percentage as
would be used with taxable income.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by boondock-saint
 


what is the "tag line" or explination of the irs amount?
on the bill the irs must itemize the charges
what is itemized next to the dollar amount?
not the figuar
xp


the title at the top reads:

**NOTICE FOR IMMEDIATE RELIEF ON YOUR TAXES OWED TO IRS**

then there is 6 boxes underneath: A-F and are thusly populated:

A: Reference ID
XXXXXXXX (x'd out to keep number private)

B: AMOUNT OF TAX DEBT
$XX,XXX.XX

C: Tax Liability
FEDERAL

D: Contact Information
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

(this is my name and address)

E: Eligible for immediate action
Yes

F: Status
Delinquent



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by deepred
 

yes I understand what u r saying here.
But I have not received a 1099-C
and have not received a notice from the lender
that the debt was canceled.

And the debt owed to the IRS (supposedly) is the FULL
amount of the remaining mortgage, not a percentage as
would be used with taxable income.





If your debt has not been discharge and the IRS is demanding payment for a debt owed to a bank then you are in a very difficult position as you will need to prove that you do not owe them....time for expert help.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by deepred
If your debt has not been discharge and the IRS is demanding payment for a debt owed to a bank then you are in a very difficult position as you will need to prove that you do not owe them....time for expert help.


And I have no money,
any experts work for peanuts???



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


This sounds more like a lawyer who has gotten your name from a list you are on due to the foreclosure and sale of your home. Does it actually say call the IRS? Does it have an IRS officers Name and Badge number. Because EVERY tax letter I have ever gotten has a Tax officer assigned to it. I think someone is fishing here and trying to get you to call them to sell you a service.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by boondock-saint
 


what is the "tag line" or explination of the irs amount?
on the bill the irs must itemize the charges
what is itemized next to the dollar amount?
not the figuar
xp


the title at the top reads:

**NOTICE FOR IMMEDIATE RELIEF ON YOUR TAXES OWED TO IRS**

then there is 6 boxes underneath: A-F and are thusly populated:

A: Reference ID
XXXXXXXX (x'd out to keep number private)

B: AMOUNT OF TAX DEBT
$XX,XXX.XX

C: Tax Liability
FEDERAL

D: Contact Information
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

(this is my name and address)

E: Eligible for immediate action
Yes

F: Status
Delinquent


After reading this post it appears that this letter is advertising for a "debt relief' company that most likely got your name from a "forclose list" a few phone calls should verify the intention of this letter.
edit on 16-1-2011 by deepred because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio
This sounds more like a lawyer who has gotten your name from a list you are on due to the foreclosure and sale of your home. Does it actually say call the IRS? Does it have an IRS officers Name and Badge number. Because EVERY tax letter I have ever gotten has a Tax officer assigned to it. I think someone is fishing here and trying to get you to call them to sell you a service.

you may be right.
There is no name at all on the letter.
No badge number, nothing.
And the phone number I listed
on the other page is not even found
on the internet in a search engine.

So should I report this to the media
as a scam trying to impersonate the
IRS ???



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


I think if you were to ask them for the promissory note they might back off.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by deepred
After reading this post it appears that this letter is advertising for a "dept relief' company that most likely got your name from a "foreclose list" a few phone calls should verify the intention of this letter.

So how did these folks get this info even before
I get notified by the lender???
And how do they know I (supposedly) owe
the IRS ???
And how do they know the amount
of the debt ???

Why would they request payment of the full amount
of the debt if they were not working on behalf of
the lender ??? And disguising it as a contact from
the IRS. This is terror tactics by mail and a complete
fraud.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by ..5..
I think if you were to ask them for the promissory note they might back off.

well the repo man that took the house
had a copy of it and gave me a copy
when it was repossessed. So the lender
has a copy. I know this for sure.

Now this new entity I just got this letter
from, I have no clue if they have a copy
of the note.

Why would the IRS give out a call back number
that's not even listed on the net?



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