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To people who believe "The Left" is "stealing your freedom"....

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posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Maybe it is you who should deny ignorance.


I did, by demonstrating to you that your labels are meaningless.

Attack the issues and the objectionable behavior, wherever it may be found.

Until you do so, your ARE the problem.




posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


Maybe you just need a little help. I can keep this simple.

Our CURRENT highway and road system.

Is it an example of tyranny or liberty. Easy question. 50/50 chance of at least answering it.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by aching_knuckles
reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Great post. The Left is generally against war, and the Right seems to be pro-war, or at least "pro-defense" as they say.....they are HELPING "The Bankers" and TPTB that they say they hate so much!!

Rightwingers, Republicans, Tea Partiers, whatever you call yourself: Why are you so hell bent on helping those that have their boot on our throat ie Bankers, Large Defense Contractors, Big Oil? This is the great contradiction.


I'd wager there are very few neo-cons in here.

Most of the people who favor limited government in this forum want to cut military spending and end the wars.

It's been a while since I've seen pro neo-con propaganda in here.

edit on 16-1-2011 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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It's not only the affirmed 'Left' that is engaged in tightning-the-noose (stealing freedom)
there are a lot of the political spectrum that got a ill concieved idea that 'They' are
Illuminated---far beyond us ignorant and un-washed masses...

here's a snip from the news being created by another self-appointed uber-mind,
from my home state of S.Carolina no less



The new law, which will be introduced by State Representative Chip Limehouse next week, will require South Carolina colleges and universities “to turn over records on disruptive and threatening students who drop out” in order to “avoid tragedies like the recent shooting in Tucson, AZ.” How this law will actually help to prevent these types of tragedies is not explained.

It is hard to say exactly how having the shooter’s information and university records on file would have prevented him from committing the crime. That is, unless everyone who had such a record was being monitored in some kind of massive Big Brother surveillance system in real time. While it might be true that this bill might help to build a case for prosecution after the fact, the idea that it would prevent such an attack is absolutely ludicrous.




AP reports that Rep. Limehouse claims “the legislation isn’t more of an intrusion on rights than federal do-not-fly lists or state sex offender registries.”


from:
www.activistpost.com...

Source: Saturday, January 15, 2011
Reactionary Gun Laws Being Proposed in South Carolina After The Tucson, Arizona Shooting
Brandon Turbeville


Damm............i'm PO'ed with my SC lawmakers being like a dufus up to their chin in septic tank honey

this guy has not been lumped or associated with other dedicated Leftists, but he seems to have the
same mind set of being of an omnipitant intellect...i.e.: leftist



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 



Originally posted by Sinnthia
...it seems you cannot even read what I write...

...you seem to lack the skill of addressing anything actually put to you...

...Do you have ANYTHING to actually say...

...So you just sit there and insult people without offering an intelligent or original thought...

...You entire contribution to this thread is that of the two old muppets in the balcony minus the wit?...

...I am positive you cannot cobble together a coherent thought and doubtful now that you can read...

...I am sorry that my points either elude you or are just too solid for you to dispute. Please stop wasting my time just attackig me on a personal level without adding to the debate though. I can play that game too.




M'kay.

I'll see if I can restrain myself from responding to your ridiculous statements.
edit on 16-1-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by loam
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Maybe it is you who should deny ignorance.


I did, by demonstrating to you that your labels are meaningless.

Attack the issues and the objectionable behavior, wherever it may be found.

Until you do so, your ARE the problem.




"Labels" arent meaningless just because you say they are.

There seem to be a lot of FOXNEWS fans on this site. FOXNEWS is very pro-business, antil-corporate legislation, very pro war. This is the Republican position.

The bankers that rule all want war, and no corporate laws. Exactly what FOXNEWS pushes, and most "conservatives" that I meet want.

If you want to attack the objectionable behavior, you had better start calling a spade a spade, and not just objecting to data that fits in your world view.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


I never said native american heritage...



seriously, iwas partially offended by the op but apparently cant use the example i wanted to...



[*Mod Edit: Utilise the Complain/Suggestion Link in your Member Centre to request a review of any Mod actions. Cheers.]
edit on 16-1-2011 by alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 



Originally posted by Sinnthia
Maybe you just need a little help. I can keep this simple.

Our CURRENT highway and road system.

Is it an example of tyranny or liberty. Easy question. 50/50 chance of at least answering it.


As meaningless a question as any posed by the Mad Hatter.


I'll repeat myself:


Originally posted by loam

Evidence of a beneficial public works project has no bearing on the nature of the government that produced it.




I'm betting 90/10 chance you'll still miss the point.

'nough said.



edit on 16-1-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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There no longer is a right or left.

In 2014 every American will be forced to pay the new Federal Tax....whether they have a job or not. Whether they can work or not.

This is the first time Americans will be forced to pay a Federal Tax just for being alive. If we don't make money we don't have to file income taxes. We've had the right to decide to work or not. We've had the right to decide to buy a telephone to pay that Federal long distance call tax.

Now we don't have rights. In 2014 we will have to pay the new Federal Tax, ObamaCare.

The Act which created this new law says it is a $25,000 fine if we fail to apply for this new tax. The IRS was also given authority to levy a fine on our annual income tax of $750 if we didn't sign up for this new Federal Tax. If we filed taxes jointly with our wives and have 2 kids, our annual IRS fine will be $750 x 4= $3,000.

There's more. Also within the act it said if you claimed 10 exemptions on your W-4, instead your fine will be $750 x 10 = $7,500 annual fine.

Also within the Act it said you can't opt out of this Federal Tax over religious reasons. The Act also said the Federal Government will not recognize any newly created religion.

Smokers will pay a minimum of 1.5 times as much monthly for this new Federal Tax than non-smokers. If you lie to the Federal Government and say you don't smoke to get the cheaper rate, the fine is $250,000.

The faux "insurance" companies they will set up for us to pick from will offer us Bronze, Silver, and Gold monthly payment plans. It doesn't matter which one you pick. These insurance companies will get reimbursed from the Treasury for rationing you 'healthcare'. The Fed will not reimburse those companies for any care over $90,000. Hope u don't need heart surgery.

These "insurance' companies have been granted under this act authority to call you at home or enter your home to tell you that you are fat or unhealthy. They are exempt from the Do Not Call Registry.

The Federal Government will set up an office to determine which vaccinations we all need. Your failure to get a vaccination will result in refusal to provide rationed 'healthcare'.

If your 'insurance' company refused to offer you healthcare you can appeal them. The act explains the bureaucratic process to file an appeal and hope you don't die before it gets processed.

The Act enhances the EMTALA Act and illegal immigrants will continue to get 100% free healthcare.


Freedom? Liberty?

The sole reason Nationalized Healthcare was passed was to generate revenue to fund 70+ million baby boomers on Social Security, another 23 million on SSDI or older than baby boomers on SS, 96 million on Medicare, 8 million on Veterans Affairs, 1.9 million military/retirees, 5.6 million Federal employees/contractors, 45 million illegal immigrants needing Federal free healthcare, 48 million on food stamps, 46 million on section 8, 12 million needing federal college grants, 1/2 million Federated States of Micronesia/Palau offered free handouts from our Compact with them, $3 Trillion in pork/funds for states annually, $1 Trillion for DOD, $50 Trillion for Federal Reserve to pilfer, $20 Billion for Israel cuz we like handing them money, $2 Trillion for Saudi Arabia to drop that "wont accept our money for oil nonsense talk".....and on and on and on.....

We're being taxed for being robbed. Nationalized Healthcare was not the reason they passed the new Federal Tax, it was the cover for another robbery.

And a final nail in the coffin on ending silly talk of 'rights'. We no longer have any rights. We're enslaved to the prior Generation that saddled us with debt and now wants us enslaved to give them Social Security.

Greedy aren't they?



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


I agree with you, the health care bill is hideous.

However, it certainly was not the original intention. The big insurance companies paid off their washington lackeys, and instead of true national health care, we got another raping at the hands of the corprotcracy.

I am certainly for national health care, I am against this....thing.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 





My question was about our current highway system. Is it currently used to move troops around? No,


SIGHHhhhh...
You are incorrect again. It is used to move troops around. Haven't you ever gotten stuck behind a military convoy???


Any intelligent person is well aware that a minimum amount of government is needed. Is it needed for large building projects like roads and bridges and dams?

Perhaps you should ask Asa Sheldon who with oxen moved Pemberton Hill into the Backbay of Boston and filled it in in less than six months "The first shovel full of dirt was thrown out on the morning of May 5th and... the last on Oct 5th" "Yanlee Drover" by Asa Sheldon 1788-1870




posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



Originally posted by aching_knuckles
"Labels" arent meaningless just because you say they are.


I didn't just *SAY* they were...

In the context of this thread, you railed about objectionable behavior you attribute solely to the 'right'. I demonstrated that the 'left' is equally guilty of the very examples you cited and pointed out how I have objected to the whole lot of it.

Notwithstanding this, you choose nonetheless to focus upon and assign blame to only half of those responsible.

Why is that?

It seems to me you are engaging in the very 'selective accountability' you condemned at the start of this thread.


Originally posted by aching_knuckles
If you want to attack the objectionable behavior, you had better start calling a spade a spade, and not just objecting to data that fits in your world view.


Your posts are either evidence of confusion or fraud. Which is it?
edit on 16-1-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by fredgbear
 





The people who are raging about this now, seem to have a very short memory about what has already been given up.....


We gave up our freedom a hundred years ago when we accepted the yoke of serfdom. The Left/Right Propagandists called it the Federal Reserve System and try to make us think it is part of our government. We now OWE the Fed a large share of our wealth in return for printing counterfeit money. About 6.8 TRILLION for the national debt alone and every single dollar lent to us was counterfeit fiat fairy dust.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


If the constitution is the law of the land, you would not have to worry about losing your freedom based on who is in the White House and Congress. The Federal government's power and money would be severly diminished. So would it's corruption of special interests because politicans and employees would not have the power and money to trade for their own power and money.

Think about this. You may be happy with Obama in power over the monster we call the Federal Government because he is a lefty like you. Someone else might not have seen the patriot act as a big deal because it was a Republican who was going to use that extra-constitutional power and they trust Republicans. In truth, a constitutional Republic with people steeped in a shared constitutional ideology would look at all of them as idiots whose power needed to be restricted and contained within the constitution. Even proposing the Patriot Act should have been seen as an outrageous attack on the constitution to all Americans - no matter which party proposes it.

We have permitted the elite to "progress" beyond the constitution in education and socialization. It is what should unite us. A centralized federal government of power will harm one side and then the other side until everyone is tied into knots; oppressed and poor. That is the nature of the beast in history and in modern times.

I call myself a "classical liberal." I was a liberal before liberals "progressed" to pursue Marxism. Classical liberals were radical about protecting and educating the public about freedom. They ran most of our educational institutions. Corporations hated them, racists hated them, and government wannabe dictators hated them. In other words, all the right monsters of society hated them. But I loved them and trusted them because no matter who you were, they were willing to stand by your freedom so that they could have their own freedom. We need to renew this body of knowledge and educational effort in America if we want an improvement in our current disgusting state of affairs. It is what puts the American next to that foreign hyphen.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 





Most of the people who favor limited government in this forum want to cut military spending and end the wars....


I am a GDI as I said, but I was under the impression the Tea Party wanted to yank all of our troops back from over seas, get rid of the FED and Downsize DC. I know Ron Paul certainly did.

I have not bothered following Sarah Palin because she "smells" too much like a PTB plant. Useful for derailing a third party, and giving the media a face to toss darts at etc.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by mnemeth1
 





Most of the people who favor limited government in this forum want to cut military spending and end the wars....


I am a GDI as I said, but I was under the impression the Tea Party wanted to yank all of our troops back from over seas, get rid of the FED and Downsize DC. I know Ron Paul certainly did.

I have not bothered following Sarah Palin because she "smells" too much like a PTB plant. Useful for derailing a third party, and giving the media a face to toss darts at etc.


You've been watching too much tv, perhaps. Ron Paul, Sarah Palin don't speak for us. They may want to. But they don't.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 





It's not only the affirmed 'Left' that is engaged in tightning-the-noose (stealing freedom) there are a lot of the political spectrum that got a ill concieved idea that 'They' are Illuminated---far beyond us ignorant and un-washed masses...


Yes it really makes me sick to see that.

We got laws in the seventies from the bleeding hearts who insisted the mentally ill be pushed out of hospitals and on to the streets. Now 56% of our street people are reported to have SEVERE mental illness.

Of course we have to blame guns....


As I keep saying the banker/elite OWN the media and OWN our government. I just wish the extreme right and left would wake up and see how they are being manipulated.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 





very pro-business, antil-corporate legislation, very pro war. This is the Republican position.

The bankers that rule all want war, and no corporate laws


You have that a bit tangled up.

Bankers want:
WAR - makes them lots of money
anti-corporate legislation => increased bureaucracy => increased government borrowing => More money

Do not make the mistake of thinking anti-corporate legislation is actually anti-corporate legislation. What it actually is is anti-competition legislation, an entirely different mater.

As I tried to point out before the bureaucracies are loaded with corporate puppets like Monsanto's Micheal Taylor in the FDA. Large corporations run on paperwork anyway so they could care less if bureaucracies require it. It is small businesses that get strangled on the paperwork and bankrupt.

Here is an example of how the FDA favored the international cartel.

...USDA “officials initially described HACCP to the industry in the mid-90’s, the agency made the following enticing promises:

* “Under HACCP, the agency will implement a ‘Hands Off’ role in meat inspection.
* “Under HACCP, the agency will no longer police the industry, but the industry will police itself.
* “Under HACCP, the agency will disband its previous command and control authority.
* “Under HACCP, each plant will write its own HACCP Plan, and the agency cannot tell plants what must be in their HACCP Plans.”

As a result, the plant operator was required to identify potential hazards and the critical points in the process where those hazards could come into play. The plan would then identify procedures that would be used to minimize the hazard risk at those control points. The plant would be responsible for the implementation of the plan.

As a result, the inspector was no longer responsible for what was happening on the plant floor: that was left to company personnel. The new role of the inspector was to make sure that plant personnel were carrying out their duties in a manner consistent with the HACCP plan. In many cases this amounted to making sure that all of the paper work was in the proper order.... www.agpolicy.org...


The result, as planned was a sharp increase in food borne illness. This problem was blown up by horror stories in the banker controlled media. Stories that NEVER point a finger at the 1996 HACCP regs. The result is a 2010 law that requires ALL US farmers to abide by the international farm standards written by Monsanto and friends. Plans expressly designed to get rid of the independent American farmer. The law goes into effect in 2012.

Here is one of the WTO/OIE international farm standards: xstatic99645.tripod.com...

Please READ it!



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 



Originally posted by St Udio
It's not only the affirmed 'Left' that is engaged in tightning-the-noose (stealing freedom)
there are a lot of the political spectrum that got a ill concieved idea that 'They' are
Illuminated---far beyond us ignorant and un-washed masses...


Agreed.


I also think 'the politics' is really just a proxy for a much larger problem: cultural division.

And a fuzzy commitment to principles that ward against tyranny.

edit on 16-1-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



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