The Day Before Roswell

reply to post by spacedonk


Well hey there spacedonk!

Thank -you- for taking the time to stop by and read my ramblings. I am pleased to hear you find them enjoyable.

Comments from members are what let me know that someone is still reading.

Yes I am continuing the plot map project, which involves not only where they are seen, but also researching why they might be visiting that location and adding that to the map.

I think we inadvertently tipped our hand as to where some of our interesting locations are, by having radar sites at sensitive locations. I am sure that the connection between radar sites and interesting stuff to look at quickly became apparent and a good sign post where to visit next, for example:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a7aac3c5a411.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/51c6f6d6b667.jpg[/atsimg]


Also having above- ground, open- air "cooling ponds" for radioactive rods was probably a red flag on somebody's scanning scope too.


In this current story arc through the reports you can see I chose to follow primarily the pilots, military men and scientists view of the sightings (oh yeah and the cops! )

As to the distractions that have popped up occasionally in the thread, I have been fortunate to have informed articulate ATS members take on the task of explaining the obvious so I don't have to.

Again, welcome aboard and hope you enjoy the ride!

Is anyone starting to get the feeling that perhaps Roswell was not an isolated event that happened back in the dusty pages of history?

I am getting the distinct impression that instead - it happened during the middle of a full- blown flying saucer invasion that had the public in a panic (and the military too), and lasted for several weeks.

Which as far as I have been able to determine, began on:

_________________________________________________________________________________________

March 30 1947 - Lutz, Florida - 11:00 A.M. EST

ORLANDO SENTINEL STAR (Florida) 7/6


Mrs. J. E. Harp, her seven-year-old daughter Sandra, and her mother Mrs. W. H. Brown saw several flying discs while driving. The discs were silvery colored and seemed to appear and disappear. They did not have time to count the number...

_________________________________________________________________________________________

and ended, (as far as we know) on:

_________________________________________________________________________________________

September 12 1947 - Necker Island - 1:00 A.M. local time

AAF FILE


A Pan American flight eastbound from Midway Island to Oahu.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c7a9f4b31881.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/11289975f9b1.jpg[/atsimg]


Just after passing Necker Island, the crew spotted an intense incandescent white light off the starboard side of their aircraft.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0422be2a3514.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/32aa29841ccd.jpg[/atsimg]

At first the pilot thought it might be the navigation lights of another plane, but it was
far too bright for that.

The flight crew tracked the unknown object and determined it held a true course of 350 degrees while holding at a steady altitude of 9,500 feet. The captain estimated its distance from their aircraft at five miles.

But just as he took the plane off automatic pilot, the light approached within one mile, then it quickly veered off to a course of 190 degrees at which time the light split into two parts. The two separate orbs then changed to a less bright reddish hue and flew in a side-to-side formation until zooming out of sight at tremendous speed (in six seconds), estimated at over 1,000 miles per hour.

_________________________________________________________________________________________


(I think they might need to attend one of those 'talks' at the Lyons club.)

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 1 1947 - Grand Rapids, Michigan - Night EST

GRAND RAPIDS HERALD (Michigan) 7/1


Mrs. Inez Nostrant observed numerous bright luminous plate-sized objects flying in groups of two's and four's as high as planes over Grand Rapids.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 2 1947 - Waverly, Iowa - 1:30 P.M. CST

WATERLOO COURIER (Iowa) 7/10


An inverted saucer-shaped disc of brilliant metal was sighted by John Laube and Fred Platte in Waverly.

It flew just above the top of a 180-foot grain elevator at Waverly Sugar Manufacturing Plant. They had it in sight for five minutes before it was obscured by trees as it flew away.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 17 1947 - Madison, Wisconsin - Evening CST

MILWAUKEE JOURNAL (Wisconsin) 7/1
WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL 7/7


Professor Emeritus from the University of Wisconsin Dr. E.B. McGilvery saw a bright round luminous object, about two-thirds the size of the full moon...

-quite rapid
-left no trail of light as a meteor does,
-did not appear to be fiery
-looked like an "illuminated body."
-heading to the northeast

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 19 1947 - Cedar Rapids, Iowa - Night CST

DES MOINES REGISTER (Iowa) 7/8


From his back yard, R.D. Taylor spotted eight to ten discs which were lighted from within as they zoomed over Cedar Rapids.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 20 1947 - Kelso, Washington

OREGONIAN (Portland) 6/28


Flying Saucer Story Grows

Mrs. Jerry Neels said she saw "bright and shiny" discs south of Kelso on the 20th.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 22 1947 - Greenfield, Massachusetts - 11:30 A.M. EST

US-AAF File - Weekly Intelligence Summary, ATC 7/30


Edward L. de Rose reported seeing a "brilliant, round-shaped silvery-white object" moving in a northwesterly direction over Greenfield.

It traveled at a high rate of speed somewhere at around 1,000 feet of altitude and "streaked across the sky" in a matter of only eight to ten seconds before vanishing from view.

He felt certain the mysterious craft could not have been a balloon and represented something very real when later filing this report with the A-2 section of Army Intelligence of the Atlantic Division.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 22 1947 - Portland, Oregon - 4 P.M. PST

OREGON JOURNAL (Portland) 6/30


Lads Declare They Saw "Flying Disks"

Two boys Sunday said they saw "flying disks" speeding southeast of the Lambert Gardens shortly after 4 pm.

John Waymire and Freddie Hodge, both 13, telephoned the Journal that they observed the "disks" dipping and flashing in the sun.

They were flying very high, according to the boys, and appeared larger than a plane soaring near the earth.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 23 1947 - Hazel Green, Alabama

HUNTSVILLE TIMES (Alabama) 7/1


E.B. Parks and a dozen other witnesses saw two illuminated discs fly at terrific speed low over Hazel Green.

_________________________________________________________________________________________


A note of interest at this point -

While all the sightings in this post so far share the 'brilliant, bright, shiny' description, they are also all before Kenneth Arnold's sighting on the 24rth.

These people did indeed report them to the newspapers on the day they happened, but before Arnold no papers had published any sightings. After his sighting made nationwide headlines, they all now decided to publish any previous sighting reports they had in their possession.

(I always include the newspaper publish date along with the sighting date, so you can see the lag time.)

Colonizers of Earth
knol.google.com...#

reply to post by A51Watcher


Just so you know....the time and effort you have put into this thread since you began it a few months ago is really really appreciated by moi.
Keep up the great work!!

Originally posted by annella
reply to post by A51Watcher

 

Hi there annella

Just so you know....the time and effort you have put into this thread since you began it a few months ago is really really appreciated by moi....

Well that's good enough for me!


I personally find these sightings fascinating for a few different reasons:

I know what these people in the reports are talking about.

While others may have a hard time imagining what all these people mean by "catapulting across the sky", "terrific speed", "going like blue blazes", "speed like that of a shooting star", while at the same time "occasionally jumping sideways" or cutting 90° corners without slowing down...

I know exactly what they are describing. I have seen these same incredible maneuvers performed by "silvery discs" just as they did (including the odd flying circles around each other), with my own eyes, except for me it was 20 years later (as shown by the sighting in my signature).

And then -yet again- some 23 years later, out in the middle of the Nevada desert, as evidenced by my rants in a few other threads.

Coincidence?

We did not then, and do not now, have the technology for even remote control 20 to 50 foot discs to go 15,000 mph and cut corners on a dime, or to suddenly stop and reverse course in mid- flight at such speeds.


So for me, this thread is much more interesting to work on since it is new information (to many of us anyway).

All the rest is old hat to me. And lately browsing 'new topics' and 'opinions' usually sends me scurrying back here in short order anyway.

(...Oops my bad, continued here instead):

OK ATS Members, Here is your chance to help discover more of the truth -by ourselves- about the first coverup, and there is no way to prevent it.


As has been shown here, many of us had no idea of the huge amount of sightings surrounding the crash at Roswell.

It has now come to my attention that even with the hundreds of reports that have already been uncovered, we have only scratched the surface of what still lies buried in the microfiche films of your local libraries. Each with a different local story to tell not covered in other newspapers.

The early pioneers in researching these newspaper reports such as Ted Bloecher, Dr. James McDonald and Jan Aldrich have all stated as such in their reports. My own travels confirm this.

I am now convinced that ATS members are the perfect solution to cracking this coverup, and discovering new details such as the exact Flight Path of The Doomed Roswell spacecraft.

For those of you who want to join in, please go to your local library and look through your microfiche films for at least the first week in July 1947 for 'Flying Disc' reports and share them here.

Thank You



I am also mapping the locations of the reports.

While mine is taking some time to complete while researching the location histories, here is one compiled by researcher Larry Hatch using his *U* UFO Database, based only on the 1947 reports uncovered so far:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7cd9d11f4e45.jpg[/atsimg]
link


As you can see, there is a high probability you will make a find in your area that no one else has seen since.


I would also like to thank the members who contributed here and made it the real eye- opener it has become:


Niccawhois

boo1981

eNaR

karl 12

OptimistPrime

ChilledVoodoo

Pilot

annella

Condemned0625

zorgon

Phantom traveller

Seeker7

IsaacKoi



And also thanks to: ALL ATS STAFF for being here and having made any of this possible!

reply to post by A51Watcher

Have any of the Brits found time to do a newspaper search for the period leading up to Roswell yet? Karl, Isaac etc.?

Oops just bumped this thread. Damn!

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by annella

 

Thank you for your kind words. I have decided it is time to share what I discovered during my years of research and investigations. About a year ago I also started making videos to help demonstrate the evidence (since in some cases words did not do them justice). If you are interested you can see them here:

My Videos

Stanton Friedman, is that really you?

reply to post by nanochicken


Well, looks like we have another "youtube superstar" who has been investigating this for "years" and has the ability to make fancy (not so) youtube videos in a attempt to coerce the ignorant (of which the youtube maker is member of).

Please understand, ignorant is not an insult. It is simply a lack of knowledge. And based on your postings and youtube videos, you lack a lot of scientific and basic common sense combined with reason. It is folks like yourself, that post things like you do, that make the rest of us educated and very experienced individuals sick. I have experience in the matters that would make your head spin, but none of them are UFO's or Aliens, and I know that is really more boring than reality, but it is what it is. I recommend you take the time you spend on your useless youtube videos to actually use you intelligence to actually think about what is going on. It might surprise you what an evening of honest reflection would provide. You might see how silly you are being.

Please don't get mad at the messenger, but bear in mind I have been at this before you even knew what a UFO was, plain and simple. The younger generation has seemed to lost the ability to think for themselves, and has fallen victim to the fallacies of modern lore. Shame.

reply to post by MainLineThis


You say you have been at this for a long time - I assume you mean UFO research and such. What UFO cases/incidents would you suggest looking at that are the real deal? Do you think Roswell was not what it seems (in terms of a real UFO landing/crash)?

Unfortunately, any thinking person can't really put their name on anything that they can say is for sure some sort of alien landing or incident. That's the problem with this subject.

In order for a rational person to absolutely say they have the evidence to 100% say they can prove anything in this field turns out to be a complete fool and nothing more than an idiotic book writer, blogger or internet tin foil hat nutjob.

Plenty of evidence that "something" is going on, but to claim there is evidence to prove that any of it is real is just insulting to anyone who uses more than half their brain.

I sure wish I was wrong, as I want this stuff to be true more than anyone here, but I live and embrace reality....something many around here don't have the ability to do.

Roswell was nothing alien in my opinion. Too many things that go against that for me to swallow. I would have to ignore so many things in order for me to think is was an alien ufo.

Originally posted by MainLineThis

Plenty of evidence that "something" is going on, but to claim there is evidence to prove that any of it is real is just insulting to anyone who uses more than half their brain.

Apparently hundreds and thousands of Americans disagree with you. For the entire summer of 1947 they all stepped forward with reports of "real" silver flying discs recorded doing up to 15,000 mph and cutting 90 degree corners on a dime without slowing down. Including the entire police department of my home town on one particular day. Pilots, Scientists, and Military men to name just a few.

Sounds pretty "real" to me. Yet -you-, some 60 years later, somehow know different.

I also happen to know some of these people and their families who made the reports. Do you?

And starting off by claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is using less than half their brain, is instead a debate tactic tried by someone using -way- less than half their brain. How disingenuous.

I sure wish I was wrong, as I want this stuff to be true more than anyone here, but I live and embrace reality....something many around here don't have the ability to do.

That big general slur "this stuff" against all of Ufology for all time, isn't that umm... veering just slightly off- topic???

Or is that a slur against all these hundreds of witnesses for the entire 1947 summer from all across the nation? They were all were lying then? None of it is true, right?

Roswell was nothing alien in my opinion. Too many things that go against that for me to swallow. I would have to ignore so many things in order for me to think is was an alien ufo.

In my opinion, you are -way- not up to date on current events and evidence. Same goes for commonly accepted standards of debate. Catch up on both and get back to me.

I will take the opinion and testimony of all the military men who were actually there and involved with the event, right up the chain of command, AND the testimony of thousands of Americans, way over the speculation of someone like you some 60 years later forming an opinion after reading a few web pages.

Originally posted by nanochicken
reply to post by MainLineThis

 

You say you have been at this for a long time - I assume you mean UFO research and such. What UFO cases/incidents would you suggest looking at that are the real deal? Do you think Roswell was not what it seems (in terms of a real UFO landing/crash)?

You can find the answer to that question very easy by going to his profile, and reading the list of all his posts on ATS.

Answer - NONE

You will discover his MO is the same as here:

The grandpa Walton routine - Gee whiz fellas I wish this stuff were true more than any of you (oh puLEEZ )

(Note how his "wish" adds so much more credibility to his "position" (/end sarcasm)

"Now listen to me, I am an expert and have been at this a long time, and know so much more than any of you."

Now that's odd, considering that -none- of his several posts here so far contain -not one word- or sentence relating to the topic at hand here. Oh wait that's right, one sentence out of all the rest saying 'in his opinion' Roswell was nothing alien. Nothing to back it up, no specifics.

His 'opinion' then certainly counts for a lot eh?

However ALL the rest of his post(s) here as you will note, are surrounded by multiple off- topic tangets, which once again are nothing more than glib generalities, and ends with "nothing to see here, move along folks".


- My suggestion is to go check out -all- the available evidence for yourself. -

No one on ATS will be able to provide better than that - video depositions, written affidavit's, books and any other verifiable (by yourself) evidence.


And -certainly- not by grandpa Walton!

Originally posted by MainLineThis
reply to post by nanochicken

 

Well, looks like we have another "youtube superstar" who has been investigating this for "years" and has the ability to make fancy (not so) youtube videos in a attempt to coerce the ignorant (of which the youtube maker is member of).

Please understand, ignorant is not an insult. It is simply a lack of knowledge. And based on your postings and youtube videos, you lack a lot of scientific and basic common sense combined with reason. It is folks like yourself, that post things like you do, that make the rest of us educated and very experienced individuals sick.

Shame on you MainLineThis. What a pathetic attempt to discredit some legitimate research. Whatever lame attempt you make to hit the author of this thread, he has still done some great work here. Crawl back into your hole or acknowledge some decent work with your fake authority. Where is this great research you have presented to our members?

This thread shows that there was lots going on in the press. There were also unusually large numbers of fatal air accidents in the same time period which I will report to members soon. It shows that Roswell was part of something that seems to have been a lot bigger than is generally perceived.

Originally posted by Pimander

This thread shows that there was lots going on in the press....

Hi Pimander, yes indeed. And another interesting surprise is that - so far I have posted here not quite 10% of the reports I now have in my possession from that summer. Obviously much more was going on there than we have been led to believe.

There were also unusually large numbers of fatal air accidents in the same time period which I will report to members soon. It shows that Roswell was part of something that seems to have been a lot bigger than is generally perceived.

I look forward to it. The most famous one I am aware of is the 2 AAF officers that interviewed Kenneth Arnold, and later while flying back from a different investigation crashed and were killed.

reply to post by A51Watcher


All of these photos, testimonies and reports aren't even 10% of what is available for Roswell alone? Damn. Keep up the good work. I'll see if I can find anything myself.

reply to post by A51Watcher
Awesome,Good info my wife and i just returned from the UFO festival in Roswell,it was smaller than we hoped but we met alot of intresting folks out there,i talked to the owner at roswell landing (a ufo gift shop on the main strip) and he had more usefull info ,He has pictures on the wall with timelines and also shows 3 locations of debris ,the smallest of which is the tourist site but a mile north from that spot was larger debris ,Also about 25 miles west was the largest part of the ship towards the town of Corona which is still to this day restricted airspace ? so my wife and i are told.And th Army used several flatbeds to move all the debris, Anyhow we left convinced the fallen ones were here,and our government knows it.Now we need Discloser to see if we are just copying ancient designs,or if they (negitive E T)Where,are,or still here, And if we can make contact with positive E T,When?Or have we its been along time since July 4 1947 and we cant cruise to hanger 18 or area 51and i think our Govt. bought its way into a pickel luckily time grows short as more info comes out

Great post Tc. Informative and well resourced to boot. And just at a time when I was considering making a thread questioning whether serious ufology is dead since Art Bell left the airwaves. And let me get this disclaimer out of the way, no I'm not saying Art was a ufologist, or that his guests were always serious, but he was definitely the best platform around at that time, and ufology is definitely in a dry spot since his retirement.

So again thanks for this thread and renewing my hope that people still take this subject serious enough to do actual research in the field. S+F

Originally posted by Truth01
reply to post by A51Watcher

 

Certainly makes sense as the 'alien' myth is designed to fit a given culture - ours a 'space-age' one. Of course people saw the discs in the sky, it is Satan's plan after all.

edit on 16-1-2011 by alien because: ...large quote removed...

I've never understood the demons vs aliens argument. To me it just seems like semantics. What difference does it make what we call em? You can call something that flies around in a metal ship a demon if you want, and other people can call them aliens if they want.

The deception you're talking about, the new age space brother stuff I'll agree with you, there is definitely deception going on there, but that doesn't necessarily make it satanic.

2 QUESTIONS FOR A51Watcher

1) So A51Watcher you have been with Phil Schneider? I watched the video on your YouTube profile and frankly. Ive never seen Schneider anywhere else on other than the lectures he gives. In your video on YT Phil Schiender was with you apparently near Area 51 in 1989. I have this question:

What do you think of Phil Schneider's story, has he worked at Dulce, does Dulce exist at all, is there anything or all true of what he is speaking? Are there really aliens here (aliens or ancient inhabitants) or just military crafts and all ET stories are false and disinfo? - Please try to remember what he told you, so that it gives an idea you are really telling what he says and please be honest.

2) In 2001 a Declassification was made on some UFO related documents, in which the story that in Rosewell incident a weather balloon had crashed was confirmed to be a cover-up. However, the cover-up was not for aliens but for some military radar or something, thus nothing to do with unhuman beings? Is this the correct version, balloons covering some military experiment or ETs?

www.youtube.com... if you haven't read of this documentary

I would have a lot more questions but let's see with these fundamental ones about the whole UFO story. Because can you prove that thse skeptics here know nothing about it and are wrong?