Solar Panel Maker Moves Work to China

The Thin Red Bottom Line

Evergreen was selling solar panels made in Devens for $3.39 a watt at the end of 2008 and planned to cut its costs to $2 a watt by the end of last year — a target it met. But Evergreen found that by the end of the fourth quarter, it could fetch only $1.90 a watt for its Devens-made solar panels. Chinese manufacturers were selling them for as little as $1.60 a watt after reducing their costs to as little as $1.35 or less per watt.

People can blame whatever they want, but it won't change the fact that this company simply cannot succeed in the U.S.

If anyone is willing to manufacture solar panels for a loss, feel free to step up to the plate.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Until the sh*** is made here I won't buy it!!!!

So there is nothing in your household 'Made in China'?

Wanna bet?

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
reply to post by Sator

 

Yeah, but who is going to have a job left to buy them?

Cutting ones nose off to spite one's face.

Cheaper prices aren't going to do folks a whole lot of good when there are no jobs left to buy them at ANY price.

Well... the Chinese for once will be able to buy it? And of course, people from other countries not so shaken (yet..) by the current shift of economical power in the world.
You live in the US of A. don't you?

So... It's not very good when a foreign power takes you out of business, but when GM comes to my country and ruin competition for local company is just business...

I see...

Originally posted by proximo
reply to post by backinblack

 

You are missing the point, even with those massive incentives the costs are still to high in the US to compete.

As long as the Chinese are free to steal intellectual property, treat their citizens like slaves, and ignore all environmental concerns, with zero consequences the US has ZERO legitimate chance to compete with them on an even playing field.

We will continue to lose manufacturing jobs, until one of two things happen. 1. Americans are willing to pay more for American made products, actually they must demand them. 2. Our wages drop to the same levels as the Chinese.

Unfortunately knowing the greed of the average American, I think number two is the more likely outcome.

BS...The Government could easily stop that with duties and tariffs..
They chose not to because they have all been bought out by big business..

I doubt that the average american would complain at paying duties if it meant saving US jobs..

Originally posted by Majic
The Thin Red Bottom Line

Evergreen was selling solar panels made in Devens for $3.39 a watt at the end of 2008 and planned to cut its costs to $2 a watt by the end of last year — a target it met. But Evergreen found that by the end of the fourth quarter, it could fetch only $1.90 a watt for its Devens-made solar panels. Chinese manufacturers were selling them for as little as $1.60 a watt after reducing their costs to as little as $1.35 or less per watt.

People can blame whatever they want, but it won't change the fact that this company simply cannot succeed in the U.S.

If anyone is willing to manufacture solar panels for a loss, feel free to step up to the plate.

[smiling with 2 gold front teeth corrupt CCP member speak]
Loss? Fear not. I can do it for only $1 and be in profit. Want to join my company?...Nah...better I keep the profits. Silly facist americans thought they will be making profits, but they wont. I only want their tech. Give them a year or 2, gain their tech, and then quietly on the side, create another company and sell the products at a cheaper price. The american will be crying and go home broke. With my contacts in China, with economy of scale, I can sell it at $1/watt and profit more.

I could even sell it at 50cts/watt. Cut a few corners, stuff any China EPA agent with cash, and the stupid consumers will buy that defective product not once, but a few times in order to meet up to their solar needs. And if the consumers found out, I just simply change the name of my company, and hey presto! I am back in the game again.

Tariffs? Nah....the Corporations are far too greedy and consumed by greed in China to allow US legislature allow such measures. No fear. Another profitable year!!!!
[/smiling with 2 gold front teeth corrupt CCP member speak]

Originally posted by proximo
reply to post by backinblack

 

You are missing the point, even with those massive incentives the costs are still to high in the US to compete.

As long as the Chinese are free to steal intellectual property, treat their citizens like slaves, and ignore all environmental concerns, with zero consequences the US has ZERO legitimate chance to compete with them on an even playing field.

We will continue to lose manufacturing jobs, until one of two things happen. 1. Americans are willing to pay more for American made products, actually they must demand them. 2. Our wages drop to the same levels as the Chinese.

Unfortunately knowing the greed of the average American, I think number two is the more likely outcome.

I believe that there is a third...and best...alternative.

The United States, and all Western nations, should immediately do away with the concept of "Free Trade"...which allows foreign companies and governments to take over our markets by exploiting workers, ignoring environmental considerations, workplace safety, allowing theft of intellectual property, currency manipulation, predatory lending practices, etc., etc.

We need to insist - now - on Fair Trade. Massive tariffs need to be placed on imports from unfair traders - now - to protect our remaining jobs, and to reinvigorate innovation and industry.

If we don't act - now - our western economies are going to collapse, and we will be owned by the Chinese and the other "third world" countries who have been playing us for fools for the past 20 years.

reply to post by ldyserenity

That is ALL BS it is caused by one thing, and one thing only GREED!!!! The company is greedy...

Try running a business here in the USA ldyserenity, It is almost impossible, especially in Massachusetts.

First what are the laws and regulations you have to obey and look out for when you start your business?

I sent off a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) about a bunch of laws in 1991. I am STILL waiting for Massachusetts to send me the information.

When I said the heck with it and started my business anyway, I had a government official on my door step at least once a month snooping around to see if he could figure out how he could extract more money from me. I got sick of the blasted harassment gave up and moved out of state.
------------------------------------

Bank loans???

What bank loans. A bank WILL NOT lend money to a small business or a small business person. We are considered a bad risk. Banks will only lend money if the US government forces them to and that is only for minorities.

To add insult to injury, I was talking to a customer who is a stonemason, carpenter, licensed surveyor, and licensed contractor. This guy has run his own SUCCESSFUL business for 25 years and the bank wanted his grown SON to cosign his MORTGAGE! He built his house without a penny from a bank. It is absolutely beautiful too.
---------------------------------------------------

Despite these hassles about 52% of the jobs here in the USA are provided by small business - 52.6 million according to the department of state. 99% of the independent enterprises have fewer than 500 employees.

Here are the number employed by size:
19.6 million - fewer than 20 workers
18.4 million- 20 to 99 workers,
14.6 million - 100 to 499 workers
52.6 million in total
47.7 million - 500 or more employees.

Small businesses provided three-fourths of the new jobs between 1990 and 1995. Create more than 1/2 of the GDP (especially if you include farmers) Hire 40% of the high tech crowd. They are 97% of the exporters and produced 28.6% of the export value in 2004. Small business has 13 times as many patents per employee and those patents are twice as likely to be among the 1% most cited!

However 80% of small businesses fail. WHY? because they bankrupted? NO only 10% close because of bankruptcy, for many it is because the hassle is just not worth it. When you put in so many hours filling out paperwork, that you are earning $1.00 an hour if you are lucky, you might as well get a job flipping burgers at minimum wage -$7.25 in my state.

Is the Obama Administration helping small business?

Not only NO, but HE!! NO!

Business, especially small business, just got a severe blow in the last two years. And Obama just shoved a lot more jobs and business over to China.

Not only does Obamacare force any business over 50 employees to have health insurance, but it also contains a change in the tax regs that will strangle small business in paperwork. Now every time $600/year or more is spent for supplies or services at a different vendor, the business must FIRST get an EIN or SS# BEFORE the purchase is made. then each quarter or at years end he must fill out forms for the IRS and the vendor detailing how much was spent.

Second the Food Safety Law is also going to generate strangling amounts of paperwork for farmers and anyone else who touches or sells food.

This is millions of hours spent on useless paperwork instead of on productivity. It is going to cost YOU money because the cost of filling out this paperwork will be passed onto the consumer. It is going to cost YOU because small business will not expand beyond 49 employees or will layoff any employees over 49. It will cost YOU because older business people will throw up their hands in disgust and retire. Did you know that half of the US farmers are over 55 years of age? When this goes into effect in 2012, how many will retire? How many young folk will take a look at the red tape HUGE fines and the possibility of ten years in jail and say NO WAY am I going to farm or start a business?

Do not think that your tax dollar goes to help the "needy" or to run the government. No it goes to pay off the 14 trillion dollar Federal debt. 44.8% of the debt is owned by the FED and national banks and 22.7% is owned by international and foreign entities. Only 9.6% is owned by pension funds and Savings bond holders.

Comprehensive List of Tax Hikes in Obamacare

Small Business in the United States
Google Book: The future of business
Research on Small Businesses

Health care law's hidden tax change to launch 1099 avalanche

reply to post by Sator

It's not very good when a foreign power takes you out of business, but when GM comes to my country and ruin competition for local company is just business...

Sator, It is not the USA or China against Brazil, it is all of us little guys worldwide, against the International corporate cartels and central bankers.

The Banksters love to play lets you and he fight. The US against China or Russia, Socialist against Capitalists, Religious Right against the Liberal Left. If you dig you will find the Banksters funding both sides and making lots of money while increasing their power base at the same time.

For some unknown reason the Liberals seem to think the Bankers are Capitalists. They are not, they HATE Capitalism and have killed it in the USA. Capitalism is taking and investing REAL wealth (the result of your labor) to increase productivity - make MORE products and services. Bankers lend fiat fairy dust debt and siphon off the real wealth of a country into their pockets -BIG DIFFERENCE

What they are is the opportunists who funded the Russian Revolution and have FUNDED BOTH sides of every war fought in recent history.

No country ever "wins" when it comes to war unless they can acquire enough land and resources to more than make up for the amount of resources spent in making war. Think about it the USA has not fought a war to acquire territory for two centuries! But Americans have fought lots of wars. SO who won? - The Central bankers! We are nothing but Cannon Fodder for the elite.

That in a nut shell is WHY we fight wars, to put more money into the pockets of bankers and for no other reason. Remember JP Morgen bought up control of the US media in 1917 and STILL has major control of the news media.

JP Morgan: Our next big media player? (April 13, 2010) JP Morgan controls 54 U.S. daily newspapers,and owns 31 television stations. www.newsandtech.com...

I suggest you read/watch Transcript/Video Daniel Estulin Bilderberg Speech at EU Parliament Dan has been studying these Sociopathic Power Mongers for years.

I totally agree with Zorgon. Have a good look at where your batteries are manufactured. That's just one small item. Now look at where your computer was made etc. I worked in a niche repair industry for over 25 years and when I started I wasn't enamored with things made in China and especially with things made in Taiwan. That has definitely changed. The quality is there now. They've had lots of practice. I think the U.S. should have jumped on new technology as soon as it was discovered. Did everybody keep riding horses after the car was invented? Yes, but not after the car became affordable.

reply to post by crimvelvet


I Agree with you.

I just wanted to point to the fact that China "stealing" this business from US is not in any way different from the example I gave about GM in Brazil.
It's the same thing... but most people do not realize it. They keep thinking with the "us versus them" mentality.

I know how these things work... I know that the only ones gaining from these matters are the ones ALREADY rich, and not the common men.

But I guess I must refine my sarcasm across the internet.


Peace

What's apparent to me, after reading the source article and the posted replies, is that most people are somewhat misdirected when it comes to identifying the true cause for the continuing decline in the american manufacturing base. The real cause of the current dilemma with regards to American job losses can be summed up in two words, "Free Trade."

The current "Free Trade" agreements in place are anything but "fair" and they accomplish nothing more than opening the door for multi-national corporations to destroy one economy after another in the name of greed or profit. Our situation was not caused by unions and it's not because our government refuses to offer subsidies equal to those offered in China. It is fundamentally caused by the existence of "Free Trade" agreements between two countries that have drastically different standards of living. Inevitably, this will result in the gradual lowering of the standard of living in the nation which had the highest standard to begin with until it someday equals that of the nation with the lower standard.

Now for the bad news, without the enactment of new legislation designed to protect our manufacturing base here in America, the situation will only get worse. If anything needs to be repealed, it's our current free trade agreements and they need to be replaced with "Fair Trade" agreements. Agreements that protect each and every nations' industrial base by mandating that products be manufactured in the same economies in which they are sold. Much the same way that Toyota has built assembly lines in America to produce autos for sale in America.

I have nothing against corporations venturing abroad to expand their business horizons but to allow corporations to utilize the underdevelopment of one nation to bring down that of another is inexcusable. If "Nike" were forced to sell their tennis shoes in Indonesia, I'll just bet they couldn't get $150.00 dollars for them because their people couldn't afford them at the wages they're being paid. Wasn't it Henry Ford that said employees should be able to afford the products that they produce? All I'm saying is, "if you want to sell it here, then make it here" is the best policy for all concerned.

Sooner or later, America is going to wake up. I've been wondering for years just what it was going to take for people to realize what was happening but problem is, that most people don't address the issue until it's on their individual doorstep. Well, guess who's come a knockin?

More and More Americans losing work....no new jobs coming online...ever.

In 2014 when the new mandatory Federal Tax, ObamaCare kicks in......any business owner who has employees who failed to sign themselves up for the new mandatory Federal Tax.....the Federal Government will FINE those companies.

So we plotted ahead. It's going to be cheaper to FIRE our employees prior to 2014. I know other business's in America are thinking the same thing.

It's going to get much, much worse.

reply to post by backinblack


Well I am all for trying tariffs, I just don't believe they will work for most things. A huge black market will spring up for the cheaper made products, unless the citizens are truly behind the idea. I have a feeling we would end up spending as much money on tariff enforcement as we would gain in income from the tariffs.

All artificial controls get circumvented if the demand is still there, look at the drug war, billions have been spent with virtually zero effect. It's not like the 1920's anymore, the world is far more connected now, trying to remain isolated is extremely difficult, and I will again say if the people are not behind the idea it will not succeed.

Ok folks, time to quit complaining, wake up and smell the tea! The direction we are heading here in America is easy to see and its not going to change soon. What is going on in China is not widely reported on msm in western countries. To get a good understanding from a westerner who has the perspective to know, I recommend you listen to this video by Jim Rogers, author of The Investment Biker and a respected financial adviser.


Say what you want about China but the people there are hard working and live under difficult conditions compared to us. We are about to fallow the Europeans and become a second rate nation of heavily taxed, lazy complainers who get exactly what they deserve. In our country we are communists who pretend to be capitalists, In China, they are capitalists who still bear the label of communists. Hong Kong is rated as the world's freest economy LINK. China's economy is smaller than that of the U.S but it is more significant to be aware of the direction each economy is moving rather than their current size. Maybe we should follow Jim Roger's advice and learn Mandarin Chinese.

The following list is from Dr. Bernard Comrie’s article for the Encarta Encyclopedia (1998):
(number of native speakers in parentheses)

1. Mandarin Chinese (836 million)
2. Hindi (333 million)
3. Spanish (332 million)
4. English (322 million)
5. Bengali (189 million)
6. Arabic (186 million)
7. Russian (170 million)
8. Portuguese (170 million)
9. Japanese (125 million)
10. German (98 million)
11. French (72 million)
SOURCE

I have a challenge for you. Are you a hard working intelligent well disciplined American? Are you willing to work just as hard as the Chinese? Many of them know our language but how many of us know theirs?
There are many free resources to learn Chinese, you can start here.
Be warned learning Chinese is HARD! But being able to communicate with your future employer could have advantages.
The direction of America will not changes because there are enough fat, lazy recipients of government assistance to keep voting for more government.
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic", Benjamin Franklin.
It's over folks, deal with it.

I might have missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention the corporate tax rate of 35%. They were talking about this on the news a couple of weeks back, when they said Canada "slashed" our tax rate, so that it's less than half of what the US pays. We only brought it down by 1.5% to 16.5%. It was previously only at 18%.

Just another problem that Obama isn't taking care of. It didn't sound like anyone was thinking of bringing the rate down for the US. I would think 35% would be a huge deterrent to run a business there.

When they know what the problems are, and they don't want to fix them for the people, I can't help thinking they are bringing the US down on purpose. Mainly because the PTB cannot possibly be as stupid as they're presenting themselves.

I wonder how China deals with corporate taxes, and what their rates are.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

I believe that there is a third...and best...alternative.

The United States, and all Western nations, should immediately do away with the concept of "Free Trade"...which allows foreign companies and governments to take over our markets by exploiting workers, ignoring environmental considerations, workplace safety, allowing theft of intellectual property, currency manipulation, predatory lending practices, etc., etc.

We need to insist - now - on Fair Trade. Massive tariffs need to be placed on imports from unfair traders - now - to protect our remaining jobs, and to reinvigorate innovation and industry.

If we don't act - now - our western economies are going to collapse, and we will be owned by the Chinese and the other "third world" countries who have been playing us for fools for the past 20 years.

I fully agree with you, and am glad you saw the point for massive trade tariffs to be in place. But unfortunately, what you and I think is not enough, for we are merely nobodies and digits in the eyes of our elected legislators.

The often refrain and excuses from the Corporations that rule the world through globalisation and free trade is that when you place tariffs on China, China or India will place tariffs on american or european products,and everyone loses.

But that is UTTER BS!.

In the first place, chinese and indian slaves could NOT have been able to buy any western products on the slave wages even if there had been no trade tariffs from importing nations. There never WAS a market for western products.

The only ones who could afford western products were the rich. And in India/China as well as in Asia, the rich are super rich, and had ALWAYS been buyers of western products, no matter the price with or without tariffs, for they know the quality produced by slave labour.

And thus, if western producers continue to serve such niche markets with quality and dependable goods, there is enough to go round, and workers will never be laid off.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, the corporations GOT TOO GREEDY. They eyed the billion dollar markets, rushed inside foolishly with their tech know-how traitorously, sold state tech to only be cheated of it by the 5000 year old ancient chinese and indian civilisation whom use side companies to steal such tech corruptively, to produce cheap goods to flood both the western and slave eastern markets to make a profit through globalisation and free trade.

Even though the western label but eastern cheap labour made products were cheap, none of the wise chinese fell for it. They either rather do without it, or save enough to buy better quality western made and labet goods.

The western world, unfortunately, lost their jobs and could only made do with slave made products which costs more due to replacement or medical visits over fake and toxic defective products.

The only solution now is to slap massive trade tariffs on eastern products so that western workers will get jobs, and easterners to rebel against their corrupted leaders to end their enslavement.

This, I alone have no power to do, nor can you alone. But together, through discussion and debate with our family, relatives friends and legislators, will change come. Our legislators must be reminded one way or another, to serve the masses and not just corporations alone. It is the masses who put the legistors into their chairs, not corporations even if the corporations offer better benefits and kickbacks.

I dont get why people get so upset with outsourcing, I say good for the guy who owns this company. Those who he hired in China need the jobs just as much as the people in the united states(in fact they probably need it more), the people in the US do not somehow deserve it more or less.

And there is another example of why my country is going to hades in a hand basket. With the precarious situation that we're in these days, people like this should be rounded up and charged with treason.

Hopefully the Chinese can make solar panels better than they make baby food, toys, and drywall. And cat food.

Originally posted by ANNED
Just another case of government running companies out of the US.

Companies can not open manufacturing in the US without paying the price of all the government red tape and restriction.

This has been a problem in Calif for the last 30 years.

Getting sued for rain runoff.
Getting sued for a bathroom mirror to high.
Getting sued for ECT ECT ECT

And there's more to it. When I am creating something- inventing- I need to go into a zone of utter focus and oneness with the thing being created. So I have a private office, workshop, screening secretary. I give DO NOT DISTURB orders.

If the gov't punks me TOO MUCH, I just quit creating.

Given the chance, inventors will run to an inventor's paradise- like the States was.