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Would a Plan annul God’s & our free will?

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posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by miracleretiree
You say "that would mean god does not have free will" But,infact it would mean,he does have free will or he could not have made the plan.


If he made a plan and cannot deviate from it then he has no free will.
That is the catch 22 of prophesy that tries to tie God to having to do something. Having to do, even create a plan takes away free will not to do so.

Did A & E follow God's plan? They would have to right?
that would mean that God planned to punish them in advance and would make him immoral.
Would you plan in advance to set conditions to punish your children. Of course not. Neither would a good God. Right?

Regards
DL




posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion

Hey sunshine, I forgot something. Discuss how my logic was delusional. Tell me me how I am a fool so that we can discuss how you believe the greatest philosophers that already tread this ground are fools. Tell me to f off. No, you will only look silly to anyone that reads this thread.

Your original post was insincere as are you. You asked a question which assumed God existed; but, in fact you were attempting to prove that he did not. Which, as you have admitted, is something you cannot prove. My first post on this thread was under the assumption you were sincere. If I had known you were just trying to create doubt in people's minds then I would not have posted.

You are a baiter, you attempt to bait the uninformed into serious conversation. If someone answers you seriously then you become bitter. Answer the question you asked, what if the plan was free will? What if the plan was imperfection and variety so that we would not be bored for eternity as we are eternal beings? Oh, I forgot, you are still trying to prove that we don't exist.


Just because I did not buy into your delusion does not mean you have to get all ranty on me now.
You had better work on your thin skim if you are going to try to sell so much B S. talk about me baiting the uninformed. LOL.

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
reply to post by AQuestion
 


LOL.

First. You say we cannot prove a material existence.
I can prove you wrong. Or better said. You can prove yourself wrong.
Take your finger and poke yourself in the eye. If there is pain then I have proven my point.

Second. You have not proven much of anything yet let alone God. You seem to think that I do not believe in the existence of a Godhead. I do. It is just not the God you believe in. I cannot prove my belief even though I have had an apotheosis and was hoping beyond hope that you could give me something to prove my belief. You have yet to do so.

Care to add something to what you wrote that will.

Regards
DL


LMAO, pain does not prove materialism. Why don't you try physics? Pain is a emotional experience not a physical one, it is completely subjective. I don't really care if you believe in God or anything, it is saying that others cannot know that is the problem. All knowledge is not limited to what you believe, or what I believe.

Each of us is free to examine and come to our own conclusions. In the end our conclusions begin and end with our personal observations, the only thing we can be sure of. You did not address sentience as being part of the evidence. Observations can be delusional, the fact that we observe cannot be. My original post and last posts both were about not arguing "religion" or "the church"; but, instead beginning to ask yourself the more fundamental questions about existence. To argue that sentience is the beginning point.

99% of the threads on "religion" are about dogma. They don't address the reason for people's personal beliefs, their experience. I think we can do better and go back to first principals. Why are people afraid of the answer to the question, Bill Maher says he doesn't care what the answer is, intelligent people through history have asked the question regardless of the answers they found, it is the most important question. The question of who and what we are and whether or not others have sentience.

You mention that you believe in God, why? I ask why you believe in God, I gave my answer. Most people's beliefs in God are because they like the answer it provides, it "feels" right. I look to what philosophers throughout history have looked at, our self aware experience. It proves something beyond the material, examining the nature of sentience, our own sentience provides answers.

Be well.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Then I would suggest you start a post on sentience.
That is not what this one is about.

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Perhaps I don't see the difference. I am done.





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