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Originally posted by Okandetre
Not being able to prove or disprove the existance of either God or the plan, it would be simpler to assume there were neither. It would solve your problem with the understanding and make sense.
Until for some reason there is point in believing any of it then why worry over it? The only thing to suggest it has been some writings some people made. People wrote alot of things but that is just one that has stuck, it doesn't make it any more or less true than the Lord of The Rings for example.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Greatest I am
What if the plan was free will? Free will means non-perfection if one is result orientated. Consider eternity, how do you avoid boredom and still grow? Only taking risks achieves an eternity of new, continual growth and change allows one to push their own boundaries. Perfection is not a static result it is a process of eternal change. Eternal change means that comfort is not the goal, challenge is. Sounds like the life we live. Be well.
Originally posted by Okandetre
Not being able to prove or disprove the existance of either God or the plan, it would be simpler to assume there were neither. It would solve your problem with the understanding and make sense.
Until for some reason there is point in believing any of it then why worry over it? The only thing to suggest it has been some writings some people made. People wrote alot of things but that is just one that has stuck, it doesn't make it any more or less true than the Lord of The Rings for example.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Greatest I am
Only if it is permanent. If human action can alter the deity's plan or if the deity is able to alter it as it pleases, then it is okay and not in violation of free will. Only inviolable plans restrict.
...of course, then we have the problem of omniscience...
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by Okandetre
Not being able to prove or disprove the existance of either God or the plan, it would be simpler to assume there were neither. It would solve your problem with the understanding and make sense.
Until for some reason there is point in believing any of it then why worry over it? The only thing to suggest it has been some writings some people made. People wrote alot of things but that is just one that has stuck, it doesn't make it any more or less true than the Lord of The Rings for example.
I find it amusing than whenever someone discusses God people feel a need to say that you cannot prove it. Why do people who don't believe feel a need to say it on every post. Why do you care what others believe? As far as saying it is simpler to believe nothing, it is simpler and so are the people who don't address the question.
I intentionally do not attempt to prove Gods existence to those who do not ask. That does not mean that it cannot be proven. We can prove consciousness and we can prove eternity, consider the consequences of both and then attempt to define what you mean by God. To compare the bible to the Lord of the Rings is simply rude and unnecessary. I don't believe the OP asked to be insulted, he asked a spiritual question.
Originally posted by AQuestion
I find it amusing than whenever someone discusses God people feel a need to say that you cannot prove it. Why do people who don't believe feel a need to say it on every post. Why do you care what others believe? As far as saying it is simpler to believe nothing, it is simpler and so are the people who don't address the question.
Originally posted by Okandetre
Originally posted by AQuestion
I find it amusing than whenever someone discusses God people feel a need to say that you cannot prove it. Why do people who don't believe feel a need to say it on every post. Why do you care what others believe? As far as saying it is simpler to believe nothing, it is simpler and so are the people who don't address the question.
It is not the point of whether it need be proven or not, it is the fact that it is just creating something to be proven or disproven without any reason as to why. It is basically like me today thinking up a new species of animal of which I have never seen, heard of and have no reason as to believe why it would exist, then write a book about it relaying it's life story. This idea seems to have been lost on God though as the idea of it has been around so long. There is no need to address the question because is a no-starter, there is need to address though why people believe it is so, but not the existence part.
On the note of caring what other's believe, it is important because of the fact that what other people believe directly impacts on the life of those living around them. The same why you might be worried and care if your next door neighbour believes that you are an evil person who needed to be rid of. This would cause a fear in you that he might act upon his beliefs, especially if they are based on nothing of fact or evidence. It is only by the slight pressure of rationality that will show up what illogical belief systems are to the eyes of the believers.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Greatest I am
Dear DL,
Eternity is simple to prove. We are conscious beings and time is not the movement of matter through space, time is changing thoughts, if thoughts change than change has occurred. If nothing material existed, time still would be if there was consciousness. If consciousness exists then we can go to physics, energy (according to Einstein) can neither be created nor destroyed. If you accept that then time can neither be created nor destroyed (using the logic that Einstein used to prove it for energy), if time is and it cannot be created nor destroyed than time is eternal. Our definition of time is critical to understanding eternity. We experience time by having awareness.
Someone in an earlier response mentioned how the false teachings of believers hurts those of us who do understand. The bible says that our traditions make void the word of God, I agree. It is difficult to have an intelligent conversation about God when most of the talk is to correct the traditions and incorrect dogma. I believe we should begin our questions at the beginning, that is just good philosophy. We know we exist because we experience emotions.
Before we can begin to understand God we need to understand the nature of ourselves and our experience. There is no requirement that anyone believe what I have said; but, I do hope that they at least understand what I was saying. Somebody said that the existence of God cannot be proven, I actually disagree. The non-existence of God cannot be proven and that is why many people do not want to have a real discussion about God. To know that he exists has meaning to how we conduct ourselves with one another. It means that our corruption is seen and narcissists do not like that. We want to see ourselves for our good and ignore our bad, what if we look both in the face and stop justifying selfishness. That is the essence of the God debate.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Greatest I am
Dear DL,
Eternity is simple to prove. We are conscious beings and time is not the movement of matter through space, time is changing thoughts, if thoughts change than change has occurred. If nothing material existed, time still would be if there was consciousness. If consciousness exists then we can go to physics, energy (according to Einstein) can neither be created nor destroyed. If you accept that then time can neither be created nor destroyed (using the logic that Einstein used to prove it for energy), if time is and it cannot be created nor destroyed than time is eternal. Our definition of time is critical to understanding eternity. We experience time by having awareness.
Someone in an earlier response mentioned how the false teachings of believers hurts those of us who do understand. The bible says that our traditions make void the word of God, I agree. It is difficult to have an intelligent conversation about God when most of the talk is to correct the traditions and incorrect dogma. I believe we should begin our questions at the beginning, that is just good philosophy. We know we exist because we experience emotions.
Before we can begin to understand God we need to understand the nature of ourselves and our experience. There is no requirement that anyone believe what I have said; but, I do hope that they at least understand what I was saying. Somebody said that the existence of God cannot be proven, I actually disagree. The non-existence of God cannot be proven and that is why many people do not want to have a real discussion about God. To know that he exists has meaning to how we conduct ourselves with one another. It means that our corruption is seen and narcissists do not like that. We want to see ourselves for our good and ignore our bad, what if we look both in the face and stop justifying selfishness. That is the essence of the God debate.
I know better than to waste my time and words with one who has been spouting B S for as long as you have and has decided to actually believe his own B S.
Theologians and many rather bright people have been debating and discussing God for 3000 years without coming to a final conclusion or providing any proof yet to you, God is easy to prove.
That tells me all I need to know about your deluded condition. Anyway, I see that you are used to talking at people and not to people and knowing my own personality and not suffering fools well, I would likely tell you to # off in quick order so, see ya. Would not want to be ya.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Greatest I am
Dear DL,
Eternity is simple to prove. We are conscious beings and time is not the movement of matter through space, time is changing thoughts, if thoughts change than change has occurred. If nothing material existed, time still would be if there was consciousness. If consciousness exists then we can go to physics, energy (according to Einstein) can neither be created nor destroyed. If you accept that then time can neither be created nor destroyed (using the logic that Einstein used to prove it for energy), if time is and it cannot be created nor destroyed than time is eternal. Our definition of time is critical to understanding eternity. We experience time by having awareness.
Someone in an earlier response mentioned how the false teachings of believers hurts those of us who do understand. The bible says that our traditions make void the word of God, I agree. It is difficult to have an intelligent conversation about God when most of the talk is to correct the traditions and incorrect dogma. I believe we should begin our questions at the beginning, that is just good philosophy. We know we exist because we experience emotions.
Before we can begin to understand God we need to understand the nature of ourselves and our experience. There is no requirement that anyone believe what I have said; but, I do hope that they at least understand what I was saying. Somebody said that the existence of God cannot be proven, I actually disagree. The non-existence of God cannot be proven and that is why many people do not want to have a real discussion about God. To know that he exists has meaning to how we conduct ourselves with one another. It means that our corruption is seen and narcissists do not like that. We want to see ourselves for our good and ignore our bad, what if we look both in the face and stop justifying selfishness. That is the essence of the God debate.
I know better than to waste my time and words with one who has been spouting B S for as long as you have and has decided to actually believe his own B S.
Theologians and many rather bright people have been debating and discussing God for 3000 years without coming to a final conclusion or providing any proof yet to you, God is easy to prove.
That tells me all I need to know about your deluded condition. Anyway, I see that you are used to talking at people and not to people and knowing my own personality and not suffering fools well, I would likely tell you to # off in quick order so, see ya. Would not want to be ya.
Regards
DL