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N Korea prepares for war against US

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E_T

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Q
Their "air force" wouldn't even be a factor to be considered, so the SAMs would be the main concern. A preliminary campaign conducted from high-altitude would target any site identified as being a threat. Due to satelite, etc. reconnaisance we'd already have them picked out. During this initial run, they'd also be firing so many that most not wiped out during the bombing would be squandered firing at targets they could not hit.

It would start with large scale cruise missile and stand-of weapon attack against every fixed air defense site and all military bases. (those Ohio SSGNs would be especially handy with their 140 TLAMs per ship capacity)
Pretty much same time stealth bombers would start dropping penetrator bombs against hardened facilities and there could be fighter support with HARMs to destroy any mobile radar whish is turned on. (HARMs would be propably used in "Bearing only" mode for pre-emptive strike with target decoys to clear corridors for bombers)




posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Q
Well, zcheng, I checked your Russian site for Iraq news. Interesting, but it is quite plainly, as you said, "enemy propaganda".


Thanks for checking the URL. But do you believe your government will tell you the truth in terms of losses in Iraq? If you do not care, it will be a totally different matter. My point is when there is lack of reliable information, you have to do research to find the truth.



If the standards were raised to the same as elsewhere, the competition would be very poor. Believe me, I have worked with companies in the US, Japan, and China, and there is a huge difference in standards.


I have no denial of US superiority over China in most part of economy, tech, etc. The point is that China, while far behind US, is catching up fast, in almost all areas.

The thing I care most is that most Chinese people can have a better living condition than before and is still improving.

The point I want to stress is that US and China should be friends, not enemy. US should not bully China, and both have the capability to destroy each other.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by E_T
It would start with large scale cruise missile and stand-of weapon attack against every fixed air defense site and all military bases. (those Ohio SSGNs would be especially handy with their 140 TLAMs per ship capacity)


Don't forget the 52's staging out of Diego Gacia and Guam with CALCM. Yeah the Ohio's would come in very very handy for that type of operation not to mention all the 688's that are TLAM equipped


Q

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 03:23 PM
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I don't depend on my government to always tell me the truth at all, and very few others here do either (otherwise this site wouldn't be so flippin' popular!
). My point was that it isn't our government who is actually telling us what's going on. Our media, while admittedly biased in various ways, is embedded all over the entire planet, sniffing out the story of what's actually happening to report it. If they are not successful in this, they will cease to exist--period! There is no government of the media--it is far too large an entity, and too widespread to be controlled as a state-run media would be. The very creed of a free journalist is to report the story as it actually is, rather than how a government, etc. would prefer it be seen. I believe our media is reliable on telling a story--that's not to say that you'll not have to check 5 outlets to find out exactly what happened to see through the spin, but it is basically accurate.

For example:
"5 US soldiers and 2 Iraqis were killed fighting insurgents today"=actual story. "5 US heroes and 2 Iraqi patriots were killed fighting evil terrorists today"=correct, but positive spin. "5 US occupying aggressors and 2 Iraqi puppet forces were killed by victorious freedom fighters"=negative spin.


The point is that China, while far behind US, is catching up fast, in almost all areas.


I don't deny this. While I wouldn't quite say that they're "catching up", there is much progress being made over previous conditions, and this is good for the Chinese people.


The thing I care most is that most Chinese people can have a better living condition than before and is still improving.

I am 100% with you on this.
All people deserve a fair standard of living, so long as they are willing to work to achieve it, and I see no shortage of this in China. That is the point I was trying to make when I spoke of different standards in my last post.


The point I want to stress is that US and China should be friends, not enemy. US should not bully China, and both have the capability to destroy each other.


Well, zcheng, I believe you'll find that most people would agree with that. The vast majority of Americans have friends of all races and nationalities. If we can all see beyond old hatreds, I believe most of us have more in common than we think. Of course the US should not bully China-honestly, China is one of a very short list that we wouldn't wish to, and we'd have a bit of a time doing so. China's military, while not quite so "capable" as the US' (
), is nothing to sneeze at, to be certain.

We should be friends, zcheng. You seem to be an intelligent person; if you can tone down your pointless American-bashing, I believe you'll find there are many here who would be happy to call you friend as well. (We tend to take that sort of thing a bit personally!)

[edit on 11-7-2004 by Q]



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 04:18 PM
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I have no denial of US superiority over China in most part of economy, tech, etc. The point is that China, while far behind US, is catching up fast, in almost all areas.

The thing I care most is that most Chinese people can have a better living condition than before and is still improving.

The point I want to stress is that US and China should be friends, not enemy. US should not bully China, and both have the capability to destroy each other.



That's a pretty reasonable statement and a pretty good way to look at the world. Hopefully there will be a peaceful future- there are plenty of reasons to have one.
Now, there will be problems- the world's population and need for certain resources is growing, and unfortunately there will be times when leaders will take the simple approach and act like a cowboy "Partner, this globe aint big enough for the both of us!" (i say cowboys, but it could be America or China who does this.) Still, there is potential for peace.

First of all, China is not an expansionist nation. According to books written by American military officers, even Taiwanese and Korean officers insist that China has never been one, and in recent centuries has had very little conflict with any nation that didn't used to be part of China in the past. America is aggressive about protecting its interests around the world, but American citizens do not enjoy war and they do not want an empire. So really, the only way there could be a war of nationalism is if America and China fail to understand eachother's true goals.

Second, the Chinese economy isn't necessarily destined to strangle America's economy. As China grows in technology and in trade, China will likely continue to become somewhat more capitalist. This will raise wages and prices, which will take some pressure off of American industries which have to compete with Chinese imports in America. Fossil fuels have to be done away with in the near future anyway, Afghanistan's oil, as well as that in the Pacific are not really issues in the future. Also, American corporations will find their way into the Chinse economy, such as Walmart already has. This means that money will be traded both ways- China won't simply drain the life out of America.

Also, China is a large country with a strong military that has a lot to gain from having peace and prosperity in the world. Peace and prosperity means more people buying your goods- which both America and China want. A few decades from now, America and China may be going on peace keeping missions together. China is neighbor to 4 nuclear powers- Russia, North Korea, India, and Pakistan- if there is ANYONE in the world who doesn't want a nuclear war, it's probably China. This is one more reason that American and China can get along- they both have a good reason to prevent nuclear proliferation.


So yeah, there's a lot of reasons for China and America to get along. On the other hand, the North Korean issue has to be taken out of the way. Kim Jong Il has to be taken out of the way.

Kim Jong Il causes fear between North and South by lying to the his people and arming against South Korea and America. If the lies are replaced by free media, the fear will stop and the military tension will ease. When the standoff ends, unification can begin.

If China is a friend to North Korea, they will stop Korean arms exports by any means necessary and help a legitimate economy to grow in North Korea (with the aid of funding from America and other concerned nations, who all have already proven a willingness to help Korean prosperity if it brings peace.) A growing economy in North Korea is a pressure point that can be used to open up their media and stop the propaganda. All it takes is for China and America to work together with good intentions and be firm in correcting North Korea.

Too bad that will never happen. My guess is that sooner or later- probably later- America is going to beat the snot out of North Korea then have a huge mess, worse than Iraq. After we pull out, Koreans can possibly unify and try to fix their nation, no thanks to China or America.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Q
I don't depend on my government to always tell me the truth at all, and very few others here do either (otherwise this site wouldn't be so flippin' popular!
). My point was that it isn't our government who is actually telling us what's going on. Our media, while admittedly biased in various ways, is embedded all over the entire planet, sniffing out the story of what's actually happening to report it.


The power of the media control is that they control what will be reported and what will not. Trusting that US media will tell you the truth, is not close to the truth.

For example, lets assume that following did occur (see iraqwar.mirror-world.ru...):


Blistering Iraqi Resistance rocket attack kills 33 Americans in as-Saqlawiyah headquarters.
Saturday, 10 July 2004.
In response to repeated US assaults on houses in their city, al-Fallujah resistance fighters on Saturday fired four rockets at the US military base adjacent to a gasoline station in eastern as-Saqlawiyah. The resultant explosions killed 33 Americans, and wounded a large number of others, according to the local correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam.


Do you think the US media will report this? Do you know the consequence of this?

Of course, I will not believe it unless It can show some picture. But for the above situation in US base, no picture is possible.




The point I want to stress is that US and China should be friends, not enemy. US should not bully China, and both have the capability to destroy each other.


Well, zcheng, I believe you'll find that most people would agree with that.


So glad for you to agree on this most important point I want to make.
Chinese people and American people should be united for a better world. I would like to make friends with all that share this vision. I will continue to deride those that think US can bully any country around the world.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond


I have no denial of US superiority over China in most part of economy, tech, etc. The point is that China, while far behind US, is catching up fast, in almost all areas.

The thing I care most is that most Chinese people can have a better living condition than before and is still improving.

The point I want to stress is that US and China should be friends, not enemy. US should not bully China, and both have the capability to destroy each other.



That's a pretty reasonable statement and a pretty good way to look at the world. Hopefully there will be a peaceful future- there are plenty of reasons to have one.


Thanks for sharing the same basic ideas.



Now, there will be problems- the world's population and need for certain resources is growing, and unfortunately there will be times when leaders will take the simple approach and act like a cowboy "Partner, this globe aint big enough for the both of us!" (i say cowboys, but it could be America or China who does this.) Still, there is potential for peace.


That is why China implemented Family Planning measures which US often like to attack China. Soon India will overtake China as the most populous nation, and there is no tension between US and India. So apparently population is not a issue here.




First of all, China is not an expansionist nation. According to books written by American military officers, even Taiwanese and Korean officers insist that China has never been one, and in recent centuries has had very little conflict with any nation that didn't used to be part of China in the past.

You are one of the very few that recognize and acknowledge this fact. Thank you!



Second, the Chinese economy isn't necessarily destined to strangle America's economy.


As I often stated, trading between US and China is beneficial to both economy. If the US do not ban exporting various products to China, the trade gap will be narrowed soon and a lot.



China is neighbor to 4 nuclear powers- Russia, North Korea, India, and Pakistan- if there is ANYONE in the world who doesn't want a nuclear war, it's probably China. This is one more reason that American and China can get along- they both have a good reason to prevent nuclear proliferation.


Exactly.



So yeah, there's a lot of reasons for China and America to get along. On the other hand, the North Korean issue has to be taken out of the way. Kim Jong Il has to be taken out of the way.


This point, I will differ. China agreed on the principle for a nuke free Korea Penisula. North Korea asked the US for non-aggression treaty before dismantling nuke facility. I do not know why do not want to even offer that. As I said, get the real facts, do not blindly follow the talks in TV.



If China is a friend to North Korea, they will stop Korean arms exports by any means necessary and help a legitimate economy to grow in North Korea (with the aid of funding from America and other concerned nations, who all have already proven a willingness to help Korean prosperity if it brings peace.)


Considering what US is always doing in Taiwan, do you think China will trust US? US had blown away good feeling of Chinese people toward US fo too many times. If I was the leader of China, I will equip the North Korea with what they can defend from US aggression.

Will US feel safe, if Chinese PLA is stationed in Mexico or Canada?


Q

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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OK zcheng, you almost had me there. I read the article on the alleged attack in as-Saqlawiyah. It sounded kinda fishy. Firstly, I really don't think we'd set up base on top of a fuel depot. Secondly, I don't see 4 RPG's doing this kind of damage. Thirdly, the article stated that the insurgents reported watching the Americans pull out 33 bodies...and they didn't shoot them when they did? Pretty fishy. Being fair, I googled it...and got absolutely nothing, no matter what combination of keywords I put in. Nothing. Nothing from CNN, nothing from Foxnews, nothing from the BBC, nothing from anyone. So I tried looking at sites that would just love to report a "success" of this magnitude for the insurgency. Nope, nothing on Al-Jezeera, nothing anywhere else either. If this incident was censored, it was censored so well that apparently only this site you seem to like so much knows about it--the rest of the world is in the dark on this one.
Not just the US media--EVERYONE. Gee, or just MAYBE it's a crock of propaganda published by the insurgency that you swallowed hook, line, and sinker?


Also, you seem to be under the wrong impression as to the US-NK treaty situation. We signed a treaty with them, which provided them with fuel, food, and a reactor that would produce power only (no weapons) in exchange for a cessation of their nuclear programs. This all went well--until we found out that there actually was no cessation of their nuclear program, despite our delivering on our part of the bargain. We called them out on it, they admitted it, and the treaty was voided. You seem to be under the impression that we just crapped out on them because we're just mean, but that's not how it happened.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Q
OK zcheng, you almost had me there. I read the article on the alleged attack in as-Saqlawiyah. It sounded kinda fishy. Firstly, I really don't think we'd set up base on top of a fuel depot. Secondly, I don't see 4 RPG's doing this kind of damage. Thirdly, the article stated that the insurgents reported watching the Americans pull out 33 bodies...and they didn't shoot them when they did? Pretty fishy. Being fair, I googled it...and got absolutely nothing, no matter what combination of keywords I put in. Nothing. Nothing from CNN, nothing from Foxnews, nothing from the BBC, nothing from anyone. So I tried looking at sites that would just love to report a "success" of this magnitude for the insurgency. Nope, nothing on Al-Jezeera, nothing anywhere else either. If this incident was censored, it was censored so well that apparently only this site you seem to like so much knows about it--the rest of the world is in the dark on this one.


Do you remember US threaten Al-Jezeera, not long ago. Do you think it dear to put out this information with pictures? The point is that this might be false, but also has some possibility of truth. You have to decide yourself to think whether the info is believable or doubtful.



Also, you seem to be under the wrong impression as to the US-NK treaty situation. We signed a treaty with them, which provided them with fuel, food, and a reactor that would produce power only (no weapons) in exchange for a cessation of their nuclear programs. This all went well--until we found out that there actually was no cessation of their nuclear program, despite our delivering on our part of the bargain.


The focal point is the two agreed light nuclear power plant agreed to finish in 2001. Do you know the progress of that? North Korea realized that US had no intention to continue on the power plants, so they also pulled out.

Do not always blame the other party, before getting the fact straight.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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zcheng north korea admitted to breaking that treaty then kicked inspectors out then backed out of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and reactivated nuclear facilities shut down under the agreement about 2 years ago it was all over the news, it is why we have been having talks with russia, china, japan, north and south korea, to try to get north korea to stop their nuclear program, and its why the new planned facility hasnt been built.

we didnt back out, north korea did and it wasnt just the US that was part of the agreement, Japan and South Korea were also part of it, we knew they were viollating the agreemment and thats why we stopped sending heavy fuel oil a month before they admitted to it, i dont know where you got your facts.

ps: earlier that same year(2002) we did start construction of the first reactors we promised to build- pic below.

www.cnn.com...

[edit on 11-7-2004 by namehere]


Q

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 11:12 PM
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The information is beyond doubtful--it's downright untrue. Al-Jezeera puts up insurgent videos and other 'bad for America' news up every day, and they would not hesitate a bit to make this page 1 news, alleged 'threats' notwithstanding. If the US really wanted them off the air, I assure you they'd be gone by now.

Yes, we agreed to the reactor, but NK defaulted on payment. All benefits provided were contingent upon their cessation of nuclear activities--which they never did! Of course they don't get their reactor, and if it were possible we'd reposess the food and fuel we gave them also. Just like if you buy a car and don't pay for it, they send some big guy in to take it back. NK was not only late for their payment--they never intended to pay in the first place.



posted on Jul, 14 2004 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Q
The information is beyond doubtful--it's downright untrue. Al-Jezeera puts up insurgent videos and other 'bad for America' news up every day, and they would not hesitate a bit to make this page 1 news, alleged 'threats' notwithstanding. If the US really wanted them off the air, I assure you they'd be gone by now.


Do you know how many reporters are killed by US?



Yes, we agreed to the reactor, but NK defaulted on payment. All benefits provided were contingent upon their cessation of nuclear activities--which they never did! Of course they don't get their reactor, and if it were possible we'd reposess the food and fuel we gave them also. Just like if you buy a car and don't pay for it, they send some big guy in to take it back. NK was not only late for their payment--they never intended to pay in the first place.


US agreed to finish in 2001. Even today, the foundation I believe is still not finished yet. You think North Korea can be convinced that US will finish the plants?

US broke the agreement, why should they keep it? I find it funny that you accuse NK of defaulting.



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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Zcheng stop making up stories you as so full of it the US killing journalist the US lying every time the US atacking its own people you blame us for everything I can just imagine it lightening strikes in a house in Iraq killing some people here is zcheng on the 6:00 news like a fool saying the US did it I saw them they made the lighting happen man give it a rest all you do all day is think of stupid ways to make the us look bad.


[edit on 15-7-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Zcheng stop making up stories you as so full of it the US killing journalist the US ling every time the US atacking its own people you blame us for everything I can just imagine it lightening strikes in a house in Iraq killing some people here is zcheng on the 6:00 news like a fool saying the US did it I saw them they made the lighting happen man give it a rest all you do all day is think of stupid ways to make the us look bad.


Westpoint. Im begining to wonder if our Rabid Chinese pal here is really all he says he is. He refused to accept a challange to debate him in the debate forum. If you watch his sentance structure goes from good to bad to good again. etc etc. I wonder if he is even CHinese at all?



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 05:01 AM
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are you all done beating your heads against a wall yet?

if so then stop the arguing, its not getting you anywhere and i'm quickly losing any respect for all of you.

all because of one person. arent you all proud of yourselves?


grow up get over it and move on already.

is THIS really worth the effort? life is short.



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 05:37 AM
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I just came home from a tour in South Korea. Currently the "war" has never been over in Korea. There is only a ceasefire. American planners chose to divide Korea at the 38th parallel because it would keep the capital city, Seoul, in the American-occupied southern zone; the USSR acquiesced to the division, with no official comment. I can't say too much, because i would like to keep my security clearance, but NK constantly sends people over to SK to form sleeper cells. Why do this if you are not an aggressive nation? Everytime the U.S. , or any other country, has a problem with NK, money or technology is exchanged for peace. Speaking of propoganda, NK has a town just several hundred yards from the 38th parallel that looks inhabited(even having cutouts of people and buildings), with signs up that encourage soldiers and SK citizens to desert their country. Along with this eye candy, loudspeakers blast throughout the day encouraging desertion. (Yet again, why would a "peaceful" nation do this?) The NK's have so much invested in thier military that the people of the nation starve. In order to recover from the economic downfall reunificayion with the south is the only option(in the eye's of Kim) , but the south wants nothing to do with NK. SO, the only options left are

1. Take over the south(all out war)
2. threaten war or show a offensive posture (get people to think you want war, but receive incentives not to go to war)

NK has chosen option 2, because they know they have waited too long and U.S. Technology has advanced too far within the last 50 years. Option 2 can only last so long, because the U.S. has grown impatient with NK and knows they no longer have the capability to make idle threats. Eventually the U.S. will stop giving in and end it altogether.

The U.S. has actually won the war with NK, through patience. There is no reason for war in Korea.......we just have to wait for Kim to die or be overthrown.



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Zcheng stop making up stories you as so full of it the US killing journalist the US lying every time the US atacking its own people you blame us for everything I can just imagine it lightening strikes in a house in Iraq killing some people here is zcheng on the 6:00 news like a fool saying the US did it I saw them they made the lighting happen man give it a rest all you do all day is think of stupid ways to make the us look bad.


[edit on 15-7-2004 by WestPoint23]


Tell me, what I said was not facts. In this particular case, it is US broke the agreement first. Look up and read the agreement, if you will.



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by armyof1
I just came home from a tour in South Korea. Currently the "war" has never been over in Korea. There is only a ceasefire. American planners chose to divide Korea at the 38th parallel because it would keep the capital city, Seoul, in the American-occupied southern zone; the USSR acquiesced to the division, with no official comment. I can't say too much, because i would like to keep my security clearance, but NK constantly sends people over to SK to form sleeper cells. Why do this if you are not an aggressive nation?

Tell me which country does not have any CIA there.



Everytime the U.S. , or any other country, has a problem with NK, money or technology is exchanged for peace. Speaking of propoganda, NK has a town just several hundred yards from the 38th parallel that looks inhabited(even having cutouts of people and buildings), with signs up that encourage soldiers and SK citizens to desert their country. Along with this eye candy, loudspeakers blast throughout the day encouraging desertion. (Yet again, why would a "peaceful" nation do this?)

Did not the SK do the same thing?
Do not you know the NK and SK have now ceased the broadcast as a sign toward mutual reconciliation?



The NK's have so much invested in thier military that the people of the nation starve. In order to recover from the economic downfall reunificayion with the south is the only option(in the eye's of Kim) , but the south wants nothing to do with NK. SO, the only options left are

You view can be no farther from reality. Both NK and SK want reunification. It is US, who want to disrupt such efforts. Only US has the intention to attack NK, that is why want peace treaty with US, which US refuses. Anyone can see who is the aggressor or intended aggressor.


The U.S. has actually won the war with NK, through patience. There is no reason for war in Korea.......we just have to wait for Kim to die or be overthrown.

Why send 7 carrier to West pacific? Why send F-117 to SK? Why send B-52 to Guam?



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 09:01 AM
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I watched "Access to Evil" in Oz the other night,
credits...

thisworld
bbc
october films
kim sang hun 'one man against kim jong il
by donald macintyre photographed by ki ho park
prison camp22

It opened my eyes to a dif' world.
Sanc'.



posted on Jul, 15 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Your post screams of mis-information that sounds like it came directly from the mis-guided University students who's actions I personnaly witnessed in Seoul over the past two years. This is extremely inaccurate, as you have neglected to put the blame on the other culprit, that being the former Soviet Union. Why don't you do a little more acedemic research on what happened in the closing months of WW II. You might see that the Soviet Union, which had done very little in the way of helping the world rid itself of HItler's Nazi's and the Japanese imperialists, decided in the end to create a communist buffer zone, they marched into eastern Europe, taking over several country's and deviding Germany, as well as beginning a campaign to create a buffer zone in Asia by taking over the Korean peninsula.

Had America not reacted at that time, there would be only one Korea, that ruled by Kim Il Sung, and I can guarantee you that the "economic miracle" that has taken place in the southern part of that beautiful penisula would not have taken place. America had no intention of spliting Korea, and leaving one half communist would make no sense.

The fact is, that America was only reacting to the initial actions of the Soviet Union. In my travels and times that I have resided in South Korea, I had a hard time finding people who would rather be united under the communist banner. My mother is Korean, and was born in Seoul, while I have first hand experiences, you speak alot of nonsense.Although A majority of South Koreans do support reunification, they realize the economical repercutions that they will face, and the possibility of losing freedoms.(do you think for a minute that Kim will step down from power?no) Do some homework. I did mine.

www.time.com...

Time/asia article:
"While Kim Jong Il clings to power in a nation that's increasingly isolated and impoverished, Park Jong Chul plans for the day when North Korea is no longer around. Park is a senior research fellow at the Korea Institute for National Unification, a South Korean think tank devoted to bringing about the reunification of the two Koreas. In book-crammed offices on the outskirts of Seoul, 35 political scientists, economists and sociologists draft strategies by studying other cases of unification (such as Germany and Vietnam) and try to divine what shape the Koreas might take in a post-Kim world. The result of the work may come as a surprise. "We don't want to achieve unification in a quick period of time," says Park, primarily because "the economic costs of unification are huge."

Predicting the future of a country as enigmatic and erratic as North Korea is a treacherously speculative pursuit. But experts like Park have good reason to be nervous about the economic ramifications if Kim were to fall and the two Koreas were to move toward reunification. North Korea's gross national product is less than 4% the size of the South's. The North needs basic roads and power plants, new technology and factories, and food and jobs for an estimated 23 million starving citizens. Marcus Noland, a senior fellow at the Institute for International Economics in Washington, says $600 billion will be needed over 10 years to raise incomes in the North to 60% of those in the South, a level at which social stability can be maintained. Today, the North's estimated average per-capita income of $735 is less than 10% of the South's. The key to keeping the costs of unification down is to turn North Korea into a business-friendly environment where private companies want to invest.

Still, the South would clearly take an economic hit if North Korea were to collapse. Refugees might stream across the Demilitarized Zone, and Seoul would have to quickly provide aid to the Northerners in order to stem the tide while converting public buildings like schools into temporary shelters. Foreign investors might get spooked by the chaos and yank money from South Korea. Then there are the long-term problems of integrating the high-tech South Korean economy and the more primitive North Korean one. The new flood of cheap North Korean labor and land would potentially depress wages and property prices in the South. Plus, South Korean industry might stamp out the North's own, less efficient businesses�a plight experienced by many East German companies."

(like I said, NK's economy sucks.) If my neighbor was rich I would want to move in with him too.

second article: also from Asia/Time
In October 1994, the U.S. and North Korea concluded a tense, two-year standoff with an accord that seemed to usher in a new era of cooperation in North Asia. By signing a deal called the Agreed Framework, the U.S. promised to provide impoverished North Korea with energy assistance. In exchange, the North agreed to halt production of plutonium that could be used to make nuclear weapons. Countries in the Stalinist state's menacing nuclear shadow breathed easier as then President Bill Clinton congratulated his envoys for coaxing the backward dictatorship toward joining the global community. On the day the agreement was signed, Clinton assured the world that the deal was "the first step on the road to a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula."

In the nine years that have passed, it's become painfully obvious that Clinton's road to peace was a dead end. Instead of embracing the outside world and abandoning its nuclear-development program in 1994, North Korea today is more isolated, armed and dangerous than ever before�and once again, the U.S. is preparing to horse-trade with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il in hopes of convincing him to back away from the nuclear brink. This time, America won't be alone: upcoming negotiations, to be held in Beijing on August 27-29, will include representatives from China, Japan, Russia and South Korea, all there to help with the arm twisting. And publicly, the Administration of President George W. Bush is upbeat about prospects for headway during the multilateral negotiations. "I'd like to solve this diplomatically, and I believe we can," Bush said after the talks were announced.

But underlying hopes that the crisis can be defused with more economic aid and security guarantees to the North is a growing sense of futility about negotiating with Kim. South Korea and China in particular want to continue propping up the North to keep the peace. But others, particularly U.S. hard liners, have concluded that more aid would only ensure the survival of a morally and economically bankrupt government�one that might collapse with a slight shove, thereby providing a more permanent and satisfying solution. "We have now spent more than a decade attempting to end North Korea's nuclear program through negotiations, bribes and appeasement," said Republican Senator Jon Kyl in January when introducing a bill containing measures to pressure the regime, including safe passage for its refugees to the U.S. "The result is a nuclear North Korea that is now attempting to extort even more." Says a Seoul-based diplomat: "The North Koreans have got to realize that people are deadly serious this time and that it's the endgame."

quick quotes from SK:
"North Korean leaders realize their economy is very sick, and they don't want it to die," says a Western diplomat in Seoul.

"These are people who believe in letting 20% of their people starve if necessary," says Adrian Buzo, an Australian scholar who was a diplomat in Pyongyang in the 1970s.

In short, I have proof, you are just talk.....show me something.



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