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N Korea prepares for war against US

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posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
The north's stated goal is reunification by force if need be and has massed an army on the DMZ for that expressed reason. ZCheng, do you see the similarities? Both you and Kim are willing to kill to satisfy your territorial ambitions. Wonder you you sleep at night.


Korea, like China will be eventually unified.

North Korea is simply preparing for the means of retaliation in anticipation of US attack. Just think if you neighbour are preparing to kill your parents and the police do not care such threat . Will you prepare to defend you and your family? Self Defense is moral to a person and to a nation.




posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
Do you ever want to die for US, if US was invaded?
War is hell. In terms of Taiwan, do not instigate the War on US part. China do not want war, but when war is forced on us, we do not fear anyone.


Dude you are the one with the war threats. Taiwan at any cost even if it means buring it to the ground etc. You are doing the war mongering



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by zcheng
Ok. Please tell me why US invaded Iraq in plain and simple words. US was going into Iraq for no reason?

Oil


Glad you admit that it is for Oil. So this war is for aggression and pillaging of Iraq.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
Glad you admit that it is for Oil. So this war is for aggression and pillaging of Iraq.


That was Level II sarcasm to feed your propaganda fueled mind. Oil played a part, but regime change was needed and would have happened sooner or later. Perhaps regime change is required in china as well!



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
That was Level II sarcasm to feed your propaganda fueled mind. Oil played a part, but regime change was needed and would have happened sooner or later. Perhaps regime change is required in china as well!


Regine change is most needed in here US. I can see that from the rally for Kerry and Edwards yesterday.


Q

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We can use missles and distroy all above ground facilities-underground? We should be able to control the sky's with 350 fighters from the battle groups-but-they do have lots of SAMS and this will be an issue. I don't know if we have enough "wild weasles" to get to them all.
Then there is the ground war-he has about a million men and lots of tanks and big guns.

As for the underground facilities, I offer only one (albeit long and overly-hypehenated) word in response: bunker-busting-mini-nukes. It doesn't matter how many people are in underground bunkers when they are caved in, shut off, and dying of radiation poisoning. The US would of course not prefer to use weapons such as this, but if the situation goes nuts in NK I'd think worse would have already been loosed by that point.

They do indeed have lots of SAM's, as well as other anti-air defense. As in any conflict, one of our first priorities would be to establish air superiority--namely, wipe out their SAM's. Their "air force" wouldn't even be a factor to be considered, so the SAMs would be the main concern. A preliminary campaign conducted from high-altitude would target any site identified as being a threat. Due to satelite, etc. reconnaisance we'd already have them picked out. During this initial run, they'd also be firing so many that most not wiped out during the bombing would be squandered firing at targets they could not hit. Of course, there would be the second tier they'd roll out after the smoke cleared, but those could be identified and wiped out in the same manner. It would take a while, but it's definitely doable.

The ground war, as mentioned before, would be devastating to all involved. The NK army is indeed for the sole purpose of invading SK, not to "defend the homeland". As such, it is poised for an artillery barrage aimed to level everything within range of the DMZ, to be followed by a blitzkrieg invasion of the south by every route possible. Not a pretty thing. The casualty figures, even in a best case scenario, would be astronomical.

However, as we saw in the first Gulf War, modern technology can wipe out stupid numbers of tanks and infantry. For a preview of the outcome for these forces, see some of the pictures from the "highway of death" coming out of Kuwait. Having large numbers of outdated tanks and infantry is not a threat to a modern army.

The claim of "100-to-1" on the part of the NK military is of course, laughable. One of them may be able to wipe out 100 or even a few thousand civillians (say, lobbing chem-bio shells from an artillery position from the safe distance of many miles), but insofar as confronting a real military force they would be toast. As mentioned in my last paragraph, they do indeed have lots of people and equipment, but it is of laughable technological levels, and they wouldn't have enough fuel to run even that for any extended period of time. The only "100-to-1" kill ratios recently achieved have been by the US. Several such instances occurred at the start of the Iraq war. When wave after wave of technical pickups loaded to the gills with infantry confront armored divisions, the result is predictable.

Insofar as China's involvement is concerned, it would seem that their propaganda machine has not announced to the Chinese people that they no longer support Kim as they once did due to the extent of his madness. That's right, Zcheng, even your government is at it's wits end with Kim Jong-Il. They realize that the man's lost his mind, and have told him in no uncertain terms that he needs to chill out.

In short, the US is not going to invade NK unless Kim escalates the situation to the point where there is no other opiton left. While the US would undoubtedly win such a conflict handily, the price paid in civillian lives would be horrific. This, however, does not seem to enter Kim's deluded little mind. After all, if the death of hundreds of thousands of his people by starvation and suppression does not bother him, then this surely doesn't either.

Zcheng, it is OK to be proud that you're Chinese. While the human rights record of China's government is highly dubious, they are the last remaining successful communist government, which is no small accomplishment. China also has many other historical and cultural accomplishments worthy of much pride. However, when it comes to viewing the rest of the world as it is, there is much to be desired. Much like the poor brainwashed people in North Korea, there is much that the Chinese people are simply never told. By the fact that you are posting on this site, it is evident that you are looking for the truth that you have been denied. Being as the odds are that this site would be inaccessible from China, and you seem somewhat up to speed on American politics, I'm guessing that you are probably here in the US as well. If so, please use the freedom that we have here to learn what's really happening. (Yes, a lot of it can even be found on this site, if you can separate it from the propaganda.) The motto of this site is "to deny ignorance", it is in everyone's interest to do so.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
Regine change is most needed in here US. I can see that from the rally for Kerry and Edwards yesterday.


Dude that is a political event. Planned and staged. You no doubt know all about staged political events. Much like you October 1 parades were you line people up, make them clap as you roll outdated equipment by. Im sure that free elections are a novelty to you so maybe you will learn as you watch your State Censored News Channel.....



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Dude that is a political event. Planned and staged. You no doubt know all about staged political events. Much like you October 1 parades were you line people up, make them clap as you roll outdated equipment by. Im sure that free elections are a novelty to you so maybe you will learn as you watch your State Censored News Channel.....


I voluntarily attended the rally, so it most people. If you say this is staged, that is fine with me. The name of Censored News Network is most appropriate for the CNN. Can you suggest one for Fox as well



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
I voluntarily attended the rally, so it most people. If you say this is staged, that is fine with me. The name of Censored News Network is most appropriate for the CNN. Can you suggest one for Fox as well


Seriously are you sitting in a propaganda department. We have access to all kinds of news and information from as many sources that we care to. However as you yourself have admitted your government censors information. The news corporations here are private entities.
Im curious why you chose to ignore the post on the true history of Taiwan.
See it here at:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Q
Zcheng, it is OK to be proud that you're Chinese. While the human rights record of China's government is highly dubious, they are the last remaining successful communist government, which is no small accomplishment. China also has many other historical and cultural accomplishments worthy of much pride. However, when it comes to viewing the rest of the world as it is, there is much to be desired. Much like the poor brainwashed people in North Korea, there is much that the Chinese people are simply never told. By the fact that you are posting on this site, it is evident that you are looking for the truth that you have been denied. Being as the odds are that this site would be inaccessible from China, and you seem somewhat up to speed on American politics, I'm guessing that you are probably here in the US as well. If so, please use the freedom that we have here to learn what's really happening. (Yes, a lot of it can even be found on this site, if you can separate it from the propaganda.) The motto of this site is "to deny ignorance", it is in everyone's interest to do so.


Thanks for the reasonable argument.

In name of "to deny ignorance", I have a good url for you to get some information: iraqwar.mirror-world.ru...

Of course, you can simply say that is enemy propaganda. But I think it is more close to reality than shown on Censored News Network.



By the fact that you are posting on this site, it is evident that you are looking for the truth that you have been denied.


Please name any news or web site that I can not accesss, I will tell you what is on that homepage.

For me, I will get all information I can and then decide what is more believable, and open myself to other possibilities.

Thanks again for your perspective. On some I agree, on some I disagree.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Seriously are you sitting in a propaganda department. We have access to all kinds of news and information from as many sources that we care to. However as you yourself have admitted your government censors information. The news corporations here are private entities.
Im curious why you chose to ignore the post on the true history of Taiwan.
See it here at:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


I mostly responds to those that sit on the recent posts. I will offer my perspective on the above thread. Thanks for reminding.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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dude, I have been listening to this anti-US BS of yours for too long now. You are completely wrong here. I'll make it simple for you:

North Korea = Bad guy
South Korea = Good Guy
US = Good Guy + Good Ally

ohhh yeah, and.....

China < US



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
I'll make it simple for you:

North Korea = Bad guy
South Korea = Good Guy
US = Good Guy + Good Ally

ohhh yeah, and.....

China < US


You have the same IQ as Bush the Wise.

But the trend is China up up up..., US down down down...

Let's wait and see for 5 years
.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:09 PM
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US down down down huh?




"This year I expect growth to exceed three percent in the third and fourth quarters of this year, and four percent next year," the treasury secretary said.

The expectations were echoed by private economists' forecasts, he said in the statement, which was issued in Frankfurt.

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In North America, the US is forecast to grow by 4% in 2004, making it the fastest-growing major developed country. Fiscal and monetary policies will remain highly stimulatory, despite the improvement in economic growth.





World growth league table, 2004
20 fastest-growing countries GDP
................
China 8.4


Both above quotes found here

Now, lets take Chinas GDP of 5.989 trillion and project it increasing by the claimed 8.4%
That gives us there new GDP of 6,393,432,000,000, for an increase of 404,432,000,000. not bad. But compare that to the US....

USA GDP =10.45 trillion with a growth rate of 4%
that gives us 10,868,000,000,000, with a 418,000,000,000 increase.

GDP link

So the US is actually still expanding faster then China, with a difference of 13,568,000,000. So if China is going up up up, then I guess the US is going WAY WAY WAY up.

And by the way, not everyone has as optimistic an outlook as your government does for China's Economy....



For statisticians who want to have fun, China’s gross domestic product numbers have for years provided a marvelous playground. A patchy collection system, a well-entrenched tradition of local officials of puffing up production figures to improve their promotion prospects, and a large incentive for national leaders to lay beautiful numbers at the feet of foreign investors, all gave sceptics plenty of room to argue that China exaggerated its GDP growth in the first two decades of reform.

Various studies concluded such exaggeration was severe. The University of Chicago’s Alwyn Young estimated that China’s economy grew by 6.2 percent a year from 1986-98, well below the official figure of 9.2 percent. Even a domestic thinktank, the China National Economic Research Centre, found that growth from 1978-98 averaged 8.4 percent, more than a point below the official number.


link



China's exports probably grew at their slowest pace in 10 months in May as the SARS epidemic curbed consumption in key Asian export markets, and kept U.S. and European buyers away from the region.

link

I could go on and on, but I don't expect someone as anti american as yourself coupled with your insane brainwashed Chi-com rhetoric to be able to except the truth.....



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Now, lets take Chinas GDP of 5.989 trillion and project it increasing by the claimed 8.4%
That gives us there new GDP of 6,393,432,000,000, for an increase of 404,432,000,000. not bad. But compare that to the US....

USA GDP =10.45 trillion with a growth rate of 4%
that gives us 10,868,000,000,000, with a 418,000,000,000 increase.


Just tell me what the percentage of the GDP is about actually producing goods in both US and China. For a hair cut, how much is it in China and how much is it in US?

In times of war, service sectors do not count a much. That is real strength of China and the weakness of US economy. US economy hollowing will continue until full collapse, which I believe is near.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Now, lets take Chinas GDP of 5.989 trillion and project it increasing by the claimed 8.4%
That gives us there new GDP of 6,393,432,000,000, for an increase of 404,432,000,000. not bad. But compare that to the US....

USA GDP =10.45 trillion with a growth rate of 4%
that gives us 10,868,000,000,000, with a 418,000,000,000 increase.


Just tell me what the percentage of the GDP is about actually producing goods in both US and China. For a hair cut, how much is it in China and how much is it in US?

In times of war, service sectors do not count a much. That is real strength of China and the weakness of US economy. US economy hollowing will continue until full collapse, which I believe is near.


You fool - if the US economy collapses, exactly who is going to be buying all of your products?


If there was war, most everyone in the US would be working towards the war effort, just like every other country on earth. So here is the REAL question..... In times of war, who is better equiped to destroy targets of high strategic value? (hint: USA) All of your workers wouldnt amount to much of anything because there would be no factory for them to work in, no materials to build with. Meanwhile, the US would be sitting preatty because like every other modern war, the US is ALWAYS on the offensive. We fight and win on your land. We kick ass and take names. China does not have the ability to attack a single target in the US by conventional means.

Besides, the US economy, as I have already pointed out, is growing faster then Chinas. Face the facts dude, the US is top dog, and will be for our lifetime (unless there is nuclear war). I am not going to say that the US will always be the most powerfull, but for the next 50 or so years, the US is the country that everyone will be looking to live up to. END OF STORY.

Ohhh, and one more thing, instead of having this pathetic USA sucks/China rules mindset, why don't you think back to imperialistic Japan in the 40's and ask yourself exactly why China is still it's own country today.............

Yeah, thats what I thought.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Besides, the US economy, as I have already pointed out, is growing faster then Chinas. Face the facts dude, the US is top dog, and will be for our lifetime (unless there is nuclear war). I am not going to say that the US will always be the most powerfull, but for the next 50 or so years, the US is the country that everyone will be looking to live up to. END OF STORY.

Ohhh, and one more thing, instead of having this pathetic USA sucks/China rules mindset, why don't you think back to imperialistic Japan in the 40's and ask yourself exactly why China is still it's own country today.............

Yeah, thats what I thought.


The collapse of US economy is imminent, due the mamoth national and private debt. Let's wait one or two years.

Recently US stock market is beginning the process of collapsing.


Q

posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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Well, zcheng, I checked your Russian site for Iraq news. Interesting, but it is quite plainly, as you said, "enemy propaganda". The site is peppered with references to "American aggressors" and "Iraqi puppet forces". Do you not recognize this as spin? There are no such thing as "Iraqi puppet forces"--the people of Iraq are working to make their newly-freed country stable once again, and many are willing to fight the Bathists and others who would not see this happen. To check many sources is good, but each must be taken for how they report a given situation, as well as what they report. To find the truth, you must see through the spin on both sides of the issue. Your claim of CNN being censored is unfounded; they report what they find newsworthy. For other than immediate military security purposes, there is no censorship involved. Their very existence depends on having good news coverage--if they do not, no one will watch them and they will go broke. This is yet another benefit of capitalism. There are no state funds of any kind allowing CNN, Foxnews, or any other news agency to maintain broadcasting. Either they report the news and get it right, or they're history. A certain amount of spin is applied, but that is to be expected from all sources.

So, you are here in the US, then? When I mentioned sites that were unavailable, I spoke only of the internet in China. I truly don't know the extent of sites being blocked there, but I hear it is common.

Insofar as comparing China's economy to the US', it's like comparing apples and oranges. China applies whatever arbitrary values on it's currency that the government sees fit, whereas other nations actually have numbers that back up the value of their currency. Also, a large part of China's economic prosperity is dependent on providing multitudes of cheap labor. While this does indeed get China business, it does not benefit the Chinese worker. While a job in the US will provide a worker with a wage that allows a home, a car, health care, and spending cash, the Chinese worker receives very little. They have no choice, for everyone must work, but what I'm getting at here is that the economic growth China is experiencing is not benefitting the Chinese worker anywhere near what the same growth would benefit someone elsewhere. If the standards were raised to the same as elsewhere, the competition would be very poor. Believe me, I have worked with companies in the US, Japan, and China, and there is a huge difference in standards.



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Besides, the US economy, as I have already pointed out, is growing faster then Chinas. Face the facts dude, the US is top dog, and will be for our lifetime (unless there is nuclear war). I am not going to say that the US will always be the most powerfull, but for the next 50 or so years, the US is the country that everyone will be looking to live up to. END OF STORY.

Ohhh, and one more thing, instead of having this pathetic USA sucks/China rules mindset, why don't you think back to imperialistic Japan in the 40's and ask yourself exactly why China is still it's own country today.............

Yeah, thats what I thought.


The collapse of US economy is imminent, due the mamoth national and private debt. Let's wait one or two years.

Recently US stock market is beginning the process of collapsing.


Uhhhh, no.
The US stock market is stronger then it was under clinton (no buble).

China is the one with problems.....ever heard of a thing called inflation?



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by zcheng

Those children died because of the lack of medicine and medical equipment due to sanction, not money. The UN is ready to relieve the santions, but US and UK will not allow it to do so. US and UK are enforcing so called no fly zone, apparently prepare for future attack which occur in march 2003.

Sanctions did not deny Saddam the ability to purchase medice nor most medical equipment. He simply chose not to spend his billions on such things because he did not care one wit if the people of his nation suffered nor did he care if the children of his nation were dying. In fact he wanted them to so he could try to leverage world opinion to his favor. He had the ability to buy all the standard medical supplies and equipment the children of his nation needed.



Simply because of US position in UN, UN can not do its job effectively. How many times does US vetoed or threatened to veto the resolution concerning Israel and Palestine? The alternative is to strengthen UN, not weaken UN as US is always doing.



If the US pulled out of the UN there would be no UN. The United Nations would not even have the money to pay its light bill much less do anything on a world scale. In the States we have a phase for arguments like the one above it states. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" If you believe that the UN has any potential for good in the world then you have to know that it gains that potential from the parent that has suckled raised and continues to give it life and that is the USA and no other. NO USA no UN. simple as that.




Concerning others, maybe. But you also have to see that when US entered the war, Soviet Union had repelled invasion of Germany, German had no more power to invade others. It was just time before the Soviet Union can liberate other parts of Europe.
Do not maximize US contribution and marginalize others contribution.


When the US entered the war the Russian army was on its knees having barely survived the first German assault. The British were spent after having barely survived the battle of Britton. Rommel was running rough shod over Africa. France was solidly in the grip of the Germans. China was fighting a guerilla war against a vastly superior Japanese army. Yet you say that Germany and Japan would not have been able to mount any more offensives. If the Americans had not revitalized the Western front in Europe. Stalin would have been a footnote in German history as the full force of the luftwaffe and the western costal armies converged on Moscow in the spring and summer of 1942. If the US had not entered the war occupying the Japanese navy and air power and forcing them to expend energy and materials on fortifying insignificant islands in the pacific China would have been overrun by a not so spread out army. Do I minimalize the contributions of the nations upon whose soil this war was fought. Not for a minute. Everyone shares equally in the victory over evil in WWII, but if you want to point to one event in the war that sealed the enemies defeat it was the US entry into the conflict. This is because from that point on the Axis powers had an enemy whose infrastructure they could not effectively attack and whose resolve could not be broken. That is the recipe for defeat for any nation in any war.



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