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Are you a Sovereign or a Citizen?

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posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by WJjeeper

Sovereign – A real person.


A "sovereign" by definition cannot be a person. There is specific legal language that must be used. A "person" can be lumped in with a corporate entity. If you are a corporate entity, you are not sovereign.


a sovereign by definition can mean a real person - a "person" under definition means a "human being", i dont see how being a single entity can be lumped in with being a corporate entity if you dont displace your liberties as a sovereign "human being"/ "person".




posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by autowrench
 


But do you have any legal documentation to back up the legal principles that you profess or is it just the case that the police/court sees your licence and thinks “oh not one of those again, I can’t deal with this today, move along”?


Move along ! well if that is what you believe in and what actually happens ? That says that the system that you believe in and are pushing on us are a absolute joke .Now wonder the world is falling apart under the yolk of such buffoons .



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Lilitu

Yes. The SPLC is a top-notch civil rights group.


Almost lost a perfectly good keyboard after reading that nonsense.

In regards to the Sovereign vs citizen argument, I don't claim to be either and would lean towards the former than the latter based on my research...which is still in progress.




edit on 15-1-2011 by bozzchem because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-1-2011 by bozzchem because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by WJjeeper

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by WJjeeper

Sovereign – A real person.


A "sovereign" by definition cannot be a person. There is specific legal language that must be used. A "person" can be lumped in with a corporate entity. If you are a corporate entity, you are not sovereign.


a sovereign by definition can mean a real person - a "person" under definition means a "human being", i dont see how being a single entity can be lumped in with being a corporate entity if you dont displace your liberties as a sovereign "human being"/ "person".



I would suggest you get a legal dictionary and look up the words "person" "natural person" and "human being". You might be in for a big surprise. Legalese is a foreign language; the words may look the same as the English common usage words that you are familiar with, but don't make the mistake of assuming it means the same. You will find that the meanings in a Webster's dictionary are not at all the same in a legal dictionary. Word trickery is how the system gets over on you. This is important to know.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by WJjeeper

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by WJjeeper

Sovereign – A real person.


A "sovereign" by definition cannot be a person. There is specific legal language that must be used. A "person" can be lumped in with a corporate entity. If you are a corporate entity, you are not sovereign.


a sovereign by definition can mean a real person - a "person" under definition means a "human being", i dont see how being a single entity can be lumped in with being a corporate entity if you dont displace your liberties as a sovereign "human being"/ "person".



I would suggest you get a legal dictionary and look up the words "person" "natural person" and "human being". You might be in for a big surprise. Legalese is a foreign language; the words may look the same as the English common usage words that you are familiar with, but don't make the mistake of assuming it means the same. You will find that the meanings in a Webster's dictionary are not at all the same in a legal dictionary. Word trickery is how the system gets over on you. This is important to know.


ah, thank you for the information. damn legalese language, its all greek to me. deny ignorance right?
edit on 15-1-2011 by WJjeeper because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by Alethea
 





Person An entity recognized by the law as separate and independent, with legal rights and existence including the ability to sue and be sued, to sign contracts, to receive gifts, to appear in court either by themselves or by lawyer and, generally, other powers incidental to the full expression of the entity in law.


From canadian law, natural person, and human being are not in there at all hmm...




Person
n. 1) a human being. 2) a corporation treated as having the rights and obligations of a person. Counties and cities can be treated as a person in the same manner as a corporation. However, corporations, counties and cities cannot have the emotions of humans such as malice, and therefore are not liable for punitive damages unless there is a statute authorizing the award of punitive damages.


Natural person
n. a real human being, as distinguished from a corporation, which is often treated at law as a fictitious person.


Interesting. Human being not found in the law dictionary I found. WTF is that that I italicized? Is that a legal dictionary admitting to duping people?

Source for us law
edit on Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:22:36 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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The only ones doing “word trickery” are the people who believe and perpetuate this nonsense and delusion.

You make the claims that you derive your status from “common law,” but I have to wonder if you even know what the hell you’re talking about. It’s according to common law principles that, upon birth you are a citizen and owe allegiance to the sovereign (emperor, king, constitutional government, what have you).

In 1608, in what is called the Calvin’s Case, Sir Edward Coke, who was Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas in England, established the principle of birthright citizenship under common law. Coke noted that all persons born within any territory held by the King of England were to enjoy the benefits of English law as subjects of the King. A person born within the King’s dominion owed allegiance to the sovereign and in turn was entitled to the King's protection.

This is the same principle used in the United States to confer citizenship upon birth. In the landmark case United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), which reaffirmed this principle, the Supreme Court opinion’s, citing Justice Swayne in United States v. Rhodes (1866), noted—

All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England (...)

We find no warrant for the opinion that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States.

It’s based on common law principles — that you claim you derive your status from — that you are a US citizen upon birth, if within the United States.

Even if you weren’t a US citizen, whenever in the jurisdiction of the United States, all persons are subject to US law. You can’t just make up a legal status to call and declare yourselves immune from US law.

Of course I don’t expect centuries of legal precedent and history to change your deluded minds, but I hope the rational members find this information to be useful.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by aptness
The only ones doing “word trickery” are the people who believe and perpetuate this nonsense and delusion.

You make the claims that you derive your status from “common law,” but I have to wonder if you even know what the hell you’re talking about. It’s according to common law principles that, upon birth you are a citizen and owe allegiance to the sovereign (emperor, king, constitutional government, what have you).


We the People ARE the government! Those residing in the District of Criminals are not our superiors/officials/authorities, they are our employees.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 07:23 PM
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IMHO I think all this is splitting hairs.

Can you really file a set of documents and get control of your bond or whatever?
If true then the USA is F'ed pretty badly.

Personally I think it's going "begging to massa"

As for me, I'm a Sovereign Individual.

just let TPTB try anything with me.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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The Republic for the united States of America has been re-inhabited:

www.republicfortheunitedstates.org...
www.bureauofrepublicrecords.org...

They are now issuing their own ID cards and everything.

Seems like very serious stuff for a bunch of "delusional", "mis-informed" people living a "fantasy"



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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To anyone out there talking smack, calling people crazy... Have you ever even studied any real law? Have you acted as your own lawyer? That is the first time I realized that the law was a sham. Normal people are taught one language, through school, TV, and radio. Lawyers are taught a whole other language. And dont assume I am a languageophobe, I know enough canadian to get by... I understand more than I can speak, but mostly I prefer to pretend I don't understand most canadian. That is how you find out what people really think of you, when they think you don't know the language. They speak their own language, and laugh at you.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL

From canadian law, natural person, and human being are not in there at all hmm...




Interesting. Human being not found in the law dictionary I found. WTF is that that I italicized? Is that a legal dictionary admitting to duping people?



Star for you.
Some legal dictionaries have been known to define "human being" as...."a monster". There is an old thread here concerning that. I believe there is much more info published on the web about this since that thread is a few years old.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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There are right ways to handle a traffic stop if you claim to be a Sovereign Citizen. Here is a video of a guy doing just that.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


I have furnished both the local cops, and the county sheriff with my affidavit of "Claim of Right and Understanding." Nothing is filed, police all over are being trained for Freemans and Sovereigns. I have a friend who is an Ohio State cop, he told me this.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL. WTF is that that I italicized? Is that a legal dictionary admitting to duping people?

Source for us law
edit on Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:22:36 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


Just means that a corporation can do some things under the law that a person can do. Sue, be sued, enter contracts, buy and sell, all under the corporate name, rather than an individual name.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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Look, you don't understand what the words mean...a king or queen is soveriegn...they are the human embodiment of their nation....As Americans we are all soverign citizens collectively that is why we dont dip our flag or bend our knees to any royalty...all the rest of that is just made up stuff...there is no more noble title then that of Citizen of the United States of America!



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Hello autowrench,

You were saying you are a sovereign of the Republic of Ohio, does that mean you are involved with this group?

www.republicfortheunitedstates.org...

If so what is your opinion of Tim Turner and the rest of them? Charles Wright, Jim Fitzgerald, Nathan Peachey etc?

Could you elaborate on your experiences a bit more?

Thanks



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by nivekronnoco
As Americans we are all soverign citizens collectively that is why we dont dip our flag or bend our knees to any royalty...all the rest of that is just made up stuff...there is no more noble title then that of Citizen of the United States of America!


No you're not - most Americans are still 14th Amendment Citizens of the US Corporation, that's the whole point.

To really be a Sovereign you have to make the conscious choice to leave the Corporation and declare your sovereignty and join the Republic.

That's what most people don't understand; right now the Republic and the Corporate government both exist simultaneously. Although rumor has it that the Corporation is so totally bankrupt and insolvent that it won't be around much longer....



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by MKULTRA
 


THE JUDGE HAS ABONDONED SHIP. I DISMISS THIS CASE WITH CAUSE AND PREDJUDICE!!!



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by nivekronnoco
 


all government, common laws and stautes ARE JUST MADE UP STUFF.. one day they dont exist.. then a group of PEOPLE get together and CREATE THEM, and impose them on other people.. what i think these officers and judges are RESPECTING when the SOVERIEGN FREEMAN arguement is used against them is that the individual is CREATING instead of SUBMITTING. once u submit you are at thier mercy.. but as long as YOU CREATE u are protected by the same POWERS that give them authority.. and if they deny you they deny thier powers




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