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Are you a Sovereign or a Citizen?

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posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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First we must look to see what the difference is between the two -

Sovereign – A real person. Sovereigns can own property while Citizens/Subjects cannot. According to the original Constitution, all government comes from the Sovereign Individual. Without the Sovereign Individual, there is no government.

U.S. Citizen/Subject – A corporate fictitious entity that merely represents the real person. It acts as a “strawman.” When asked if you are a “U.S. Citizen” on corporate legal documents, if you check “yes,” you agree to the terms of Corporate Law and unknowingly relinquish your sovereign status and transfer all of your rights to the UNITED STATES CORPORATION since you are now under contract

now im sure we have all thought that we are "Sovereign Citizens", but that is a huge contradiction of definitions.

To call oneself a “sovereign citizen” or “sovereign subject” is an oxymoron, since “sovereign” and “citizen/subject” are mutually exclusive of each other.

so why are we not sovereign peoples of The Replublic of the United States of America? because the Republic does not exist!

by the year 1788 the republic of the U.S.A. was bankrupt

In 1790 (August 4), Article One of the U.S. Statutes at Large, pages 138-178, abolished the States of the Republic and created Federal Districts. In the same year, the former States of the Republic reorganized as Corporations and their legislatures wrote new State Constitutions, absent defined boundaries, which they presented to the people of each state for a vote...the new State Constitutions fraudulently made the people “Citizens” of the new Corporate States. A Citizen is also defined as a “corporate fiction."

In 1845, Congress passed legislation that would ultimately allow Common Law to be usurped by Admiralty Law. The yellow fringe placed at the bottom of court flags shows this is still true. Before 1845, Americans were considered sovereign individuals who governed themselves under Common Law.

www.barefootsworld.net/admiralty.html explains this change

so in conclusion, I would love to say I am a sovereign national of the U.S., but in reality i have signed my life away to the federal gov/ federal reserve. as soon as we turned 18 we were forced to register for the draft, thus we all became "Citizens" of the U.S. which is a purposely created false reality used to keep the masses at ease, this false reality keeps the federal reserve board of governors at ease knowing that they OWN our liberties and lifes.

so, are you a sovereign? or a citizen? I guess the U.S. wasnt as free a country as we thought.




posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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I'm a citizen.




posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Sovereign.

And for the coffee party member, of course they are a citizen, she likes to be an indentured servant as defined in the 13th amendment. She is guilty of a crime therefore the government can make her one.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 


Do you really believe what SPLC has to say about stuff?



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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I think you are absolutely spot-on OP. Thanks for posting.

Beware of anyone trying to promote sovereign citizenship. As you rightly say that is an oxymoron.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Lilitu
I'm a citizen.



so you gladly accept being owned by the federal reserve as collateral if the U.S. corp defaults on its loans?



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Lilitu
I'm a citizen.



Then you are a willing participant in your own enslavement.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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heres some more facts!

“...It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.

The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: “The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States...

Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages until the Federal Reserve Act (1913) “Hypothecated” all property within the Federal United States to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, in which the Trustees (stockholders) held legal title. The U.S. Citizen (tenant, franchisee) was registered as a “beneficiary” of the trust via his/her birth certificate. In 1933, the Federal United States hypothecated all of the present and future properties, assets, and labor of their “subjects,” the 14th Amendment U.S. Citizen to the Federal Reserve System. In return, the Federal Reserve System agreed to extend the federal United States Corporation all of the credit “money substitute” it needed.

Like any debtor, the Federal United States government had to assign collateral and security to their creditors as a condition of the loan. Since the Federal United States didn’t have any assets, they assigned the private property of their “economic slaves,” the U.S. Citizens, as collateral against the federal debt. They also pledged the unincorporated federal territories, national parks, forests, birth certificates, and nonprofit organizations as collateral against the federal debt. All has already been transferred as payment to the international bankers.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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as long as they don't imprison your mind you'll always be free. barack obama, according to some, is an american citizen as is george bush, just like you.

so are they slaves too, or are they smart enough to not empower that label and let it affect them.

then you have to ask yourself if presidents are citizens, therefore slaves, who are they slaves to?
the only thing you can be a slave to in america is the constitution since by law every citizen is bound to it.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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I'm a citizen.


Originally posted by WJjeeper
so you gladly accept being owned by the federal reserve as collateral if the U.S. corp defaults on its loans?


Which it will never do, as much as you fear monger.

Yes, I gladly accept it. It's called patriotism, you should try it some time.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by randomname
as long as they don't imprison your mind you'll always be free. barack obama, according to some, is an american citizen as is george bush, just like you.

so are they slaves too, or are they smart enough to not empower that label and let it affect them.

then you have to ask yourself if presidents are citizens, therefore slaves, who are they slaves to?
the only thing you can be a slave to in america is the constitution since by law every citizen is bound to it.


if you claim yourself as a "citizen" at any time to local, state, or federal governments you automatically become an asset of the united states, therefore you are no longer a sovereign - because you have given your rights as a sovereign over to the ficticious entity that is the Federal government.

and yes, that is also written in the constitution - YOU MUST BE A U.S. CITIZEN TO BE PRES.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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I do not think it really matters anymore. If you obey, you are asleep. If you protest, even peacefully, you are a terrorist. We Americans have no choice, unless you want to live like a homeless person with no possessions. The FED makes the rules and we have to obide by the law they put into effect. All we can do is be aware.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Is this related to that freeman bull?


U.S. Citizen/Subject – A corporate fictitious entity that merely represents the real person. It acts as a “strawman.” When asked if you are a “U.S. Citizen” on corporate legal documents, if you check “yes,” you agree to the terms of Corporate Law and unknowingly relinquish your sovereign status and transfer all of your rights to the UNITED STATES CORPORATION since you are now under contract



In 1845, Congress passed legislation that would ultimately allow Common Law to be usurped by Admiralty Law.


Can I see a recognised legal document, an actual piece of legislation, which states either of these things?



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by WJjeeper
 


I'm a citizen. The difference between citizen and "sovereign" as applied in the real world? If I go to court and assert my claims and rights, I might actually get out of the building without being jailed for contempt.

~Heff



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


So you are admitting that judges are no longer judges, they are lords that can jail people for contempt of the crown.

Thanks for proving the point.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Not at all. What I am saying is that, for a good laugh, Google "sovereign citizen + court cases" and then realize just now misinformed this particular movement is.

~Heff



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
Can I see a recognised legal document, an actual piece of legislation, which states either of these things?


Of course you cannot, as none actually exist. It is just a hoax



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Lilitu
 


Do you really believe what SPLC has to say about stuff?


Yes. The SPLC is a top-notch civil rights group. That said, I can understand why you don't think much of them.

Sorry but the other responses I received were simply too asinine to respond to. Come back to reality, then, perhaps, we can have a discussion. Funny though how many of you replied with leading questions. Just like religious cultists who seek to ensnare and deceive.

Oh and here's a little something from your good friends at the FBI.

Domestic Terrorism: The Sovereign Citizen Movement

Being "Sovereign", I know you're not afraid to follow that link.

edit on 15-1-2011 by Lilitu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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I'm a firm believer in murphy's law, so I'm always prepare for the inevitable



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Not the entire movement. Yes some do not know how to deal with the courts.

I was reading a few court cases where some of these arguments were used properly.

See the government and courts are a lot like everyday life. There are decisions to be made. If it is going to cause problems, people and courts avoid it.

Case dismissed.

The main point of courts, IMO are that they are just another revenue stream nowadays for government. If it is going to cost them an arm and a leg to get the outcome they are looking for, they will deal or just dismiss.

Just because the legal defense does not work all the time, does not make the defense irrelevant.



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