Palestina recongized as "Free and Sovereign Nation" within 1967 borders.

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posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 


What you are like with a gun in your hand is irrelevant here..
Force doesn't work in real debate..
Start showing facts of what you say and answer question asked or you are merely a coward..

Your posts are getting boring....




posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by pthena
I see that a thread that started out expressing the hopes and dreams of many people in the world for a peaceful solution to a seeming intractable obstruction to peace has been derailed for the sake of Jewish exceptionalism.

Sorry folks. The Zionist agenda of ethnic cleansing must go forward. The children of Abraham must be pushed out of "the promised land" at all costs. One tribe, claiming to be Judah, must seize the birthright of all the tribes, casting out and destroying all in its path. I seriously doubt that Jacob the father of Judah would approve, or Abraham the great grandfather of Judah would approve.

Jews are people, Palestinians are people, South Americans are people, most on ATS are people. People who are people first would like for human life to be honored above ethnic exceptionalism, regardless of obsolete notions of ethnocentric deities.

I hope someone can restore the spirit of hope the thread started out on.


I gave you a star but also wish to point out that zionists are hopeless and their Godless souls hellbound. We all start out as people but some continue to be monsters like the nazis and the zionists. Do you think the stealing the of internal organs from Palestinian people is a normal act by people or the actions of monstrous and soulless creatures?

I don't care if you have been brought up to think you are a chosen person, how can anyone round up Palestinian kids, extract their internal organs, smuggle them into New Jersey and sell it? The husks of the kids are then sealed in coffins and a military order is given not to open it. Israeli military orders are marshal law diktats that has the threat of two punishments, imprisonment and house demolitions.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 07:05 AM
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do you have proof that its the isrealis? or are you just blaming them? could be palistaine doing it to blame on them. I don't claim to be an expert here.. thats why I'm asking not trying to be insulting here either. lol.. while I don't like Isreal I don't like palistine much either. I also don't think either of them deserve their land. no matter how they got it. you would think after 50 or so years they would learn to get alone but if you take out the entire region you solve the problem. lol.. but that's just me.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 07:52 AM
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who is the palastinian head of state ? it its a soverign state it must have one right ????



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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This thread started as something nice but ended up in idiotic people cussing out a person only because he doesn't hold a 'pro-palestinian' opinion like all of you.
Obviously you people are not up for civil discussion so I will not get involved but I will say this.

Let's suppose the Palestinians do return to the 67 borders and are declaring independence. What would that mean?
*Israel will no longer fund their gas and electricity, they will have to look for a source and as it seems nobody will rush to their help due to economic struggles that are already existing.
*Israel will close it's borders completely, a thing that will completely isolate the Palesinians economically and demographically. If they'd like to enter Israel they would need to do it via air.

And most importantly..

*Israel will not recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization, but as the Palestinian army. Any attack as puny as it may be, like even one or two Kassam rockets at desolate areas (like today, yesterday and the day before but I'm sure none of you knows anything about it) will be seen as a declaration of war that started by a sovereign nation. In that case, the retaliation will not be precise bombardment but instead it will be in the form of massive destruction of the entire area that the rockets came out of.

Hamas is the power in Gaza and the territories right now. Just like Hizbollah in Lebanon, Hamas could overthrow the "govenment" in a heartbeat.
No peace agreement could ever happen as-long as Hamas is in power, and currently they are. No Israeli politician is able to negotiate with a party that does not recognize Israel as a Jewish Israeli state with Jerusalem as it's capital. And whine as much as you want, but the whole return to 67 borders thing will not happen as long as the Palestinian governing factor wont recognize Israel.


Also, I'd hate to bust your party but south american nations have no real say in the matter. Mahmud-Abbas went on a convincing spree with nations that hold little care to the area in order to get some support. It's just like an Israeli politician will obtain the same support from Korea or New Zealand.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady
how can anyone round up Palestinian kids, extract their internal organs, smuggle them into New Jersey and sell it? The husks of the kids are then sealed in coffins and a military order is given not to open it.

I'd like to see some proof from a reliable source for any of these absurd claims.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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This is the most idiotic argument I have ever heard online. Imagine my name to be another one if it bothers you that much. But I guess it's easier for you to deal with these issues instead of the actual post.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady
how can anyone round up Palestinian kids, extract their internal organs, smuggle them into New Jersey and sell it? The husks of the kids are then sealed in coffins and a military order is given not to open it.

I'd like to see some proof from a reliable source for any of these absurd claims.


Have you already forgotten about the rabbis in New Jersey that were arrested smuggling internal organs from Israel? You saw how Israel and world zionery howled and mobilized against 1 Swedish reporter who wrote about a Palestinian family's claim. The doth protest too much you known.

It is not really up to a zionist to dictate what is reliable or unreliable.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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No, I didn't see anything because I normally don't surf into idiotic websites such as infowars or whatever.
Would you like to provide some proof or are you all better making up stuff alone?

Also I'm not dictating anything. If anything, these absurd claims of yours are derailing the thread (Read the ATS rules lately?). I'm not even going to address these claims other than ask for some reliable proof which seem like you're not going to bring forth anyway.

Do yourself a favor and focus on my main post above. Give me your answer, do you really want the Palestinians to have a sovereign nation at these times when hostility is high? Do you really think that while Hamas is in power they could develop into anything other than a miserable 3rd world country that imports more explosives than books?
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 



Although I have the relevant info proving the zionist insatiable appetite for internal organs from others, this story has been discussed in great detail on ATS. Use the above search button and find the articles.

Secondly, I do not think any amount of fact or proof is ever going to convince you of the nature of the criminal settler state. I believe this because all your comments have been sneering, condescending and unpleasant.

What I suggest you do is to put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians and understand how they feel, it is the Christian thing to do.


Good luck
edit on 16-1-2011 by Ilovecatbinlady because: typo



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Not a single answer to my questions, not a single proof handed out.
You're wasting your (and mine) time with poor posts.

Can anyone answer my questions? If you'll read them you'll see they are fairly balanced. Instead, you people insist on inserting some silly senseless Zionist bashing in your posts that contributes to nothing except showing your obvious hatred towards Israel.

The fact you're all asking for a civil debate yet you can't even make one post about Israel without it reaching almost personal hatred levels is just hypocrite.
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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do you really want the Palestinians to have a sovereign nation at these times when hostility is high? Do you really think that while Hamas is in power they could develop into anything other than a miserable 3rd world country that imports more explosives than books?

It's not what you and me want. It's their right.
Do you understand the concept of self-determination? Of freedom?
Why do you expect them to stop BOMBING the hell out of your ass if you don't want to give them what they deserve as any other People in the world?
Or you rather just put them all in a tiny piece of land 'till they starve to death? And then just take the few pieces of land that they still had?
I'ts awful how clear the distinction is for you, they are second-class humans, unable to organize in a civilized manner as you are... Think about it, put yourself in their place...



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 08:58 AM
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They are not second class humans and it will be better if you stopped typing like a child at these matters.
The only Palestinians I regard as scum of the earth are Hamas.

As for their rights, well this is why I asked.

Sure it's their right, but what good would it be for them to have these territories back and then only have it taken away from them by Hamas?

I don't object to the return to 67 borders because I'm an evil Jew, I object to it because currently with Hamas in power it will only lead to more bloodshed, and this is clearly not anything that anyone would want, especially the people that support Palestinians right for freedom.

Do you call this freedom?


Do you call THIS freedom?


Did you know about the Disengagement plan?
A one-sided retreat by Israel that brought nothing to the area but another war. Israel retreated -> Hamas settled in -> Started shooting from a place he couldn't in the past -> These areas are still empty due to Israeli UAV's scanning for Hamas terrorists trying to launch rockets.
Lots of Israeli families were evicted only to have the territory wasted.

That's what's going to happen with every territory being forfeit by Israel.

The Palestinian people will return to the 67 borders only when they have no terrorist party that rules them. To be fair, Hamas is forcing itself on the Palestinian people so it's pretty hard not to vote to a guy that points an AK74 at your kids on a daily basis.

This is why this situation is complex -

Israel cannot deal with the Palestinians because Hamas is currently in power.
Hamas took power by force and does not recognize Israel's right to exist.
Removing Hamas is like removing one's kidney with a chainsaw. They will wreck havoc once they feel threatned.

It's pretty easy to blame it all on the "Evil Zionists" and forget about the real trouble, Hamas.
The only logical way that Israel really will be at blame, is if eventually it will be discovered that Hamas is some agency led by the Israeli government.
Farfetched.
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Not a single answer to my questions, not a single proof handed out.
You're wasting your (and mine) time with poor posts.

Can anyone answer my questions? If you'll read them you'll see they are fairly balanced. Instead, you people insist on inserting some silly senseless Zionist bashing in your posts that contributes to nothing except showing your obvious hatred towards Israel.

The fact you're all asking for a civil debate yet you can't even make one post about Israel without it reaching almost personal hatred levels is just hypocrite.
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)


What is wrong, why all the whining? You can find all the answers you need by looking for the relevant articles in the search bar to the top of the page,

Your chest beating and demands of other atsers is very odd and unnecessary. We are not obliged to assuage your needy queries; please use the search button.

Believe me, nobody bashes zionists, zionist bash everyone they consider an enemy. It doesn't matter who it is; a 5 year Palestinian girl, an American elected official, a native American Indian, a black American history professor, Iraqi scientists, Australian backpackers, internet bloggers...etc. Zionists are rapacious and ultraviolent.

Zionism has been exposed and the jig is up!



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady
Zionism has been exposed and the jig is up!

I just love these slogans that make you people feel better about yourselves like some jig is really up, lol.
The only thing that's exposed is your head. You've been exposed to so much BS from poor "truth seeking" sites that you can no longer think the same way a normal human being thinks. You may call it to deny ignorance or be a truth seeker but in reality you are only deluding yourself with false facts. Amusing to say the least.

As for me searching, I will not waste my time searching for sources for your claims. You want people to take you seriously? Provide reliable claims for what you said. Till then you're only a troll.


As for whining, who's whining? I'm 100% fine with the status as it is. It's the Palestinian people that need help, and the best way to help them is to find a way to kill the cancer that is called Hamas. Only then will the Israeli government remove it's extremists (see; Rabbin's government in Arafat's times) and peace negotiations could begin.
You're the one that whines senselessly. While your anger should be aimed at Hamas, it's pointed at Israel.

Let's ask this to make things more clear - are you in support for Hamas? Do you believe they are the right organization to lead the Palestinian people?
Are you really convinced Palestinians will go towards their goals by violence?
Answer these questions instead of blabbering your usual "Zionists are this and that" stuff.
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 





The first video shows Palestinians doing a play about being antiZionist fighters. This is very good and gives empowerment to Palestinian children who were victimized by zionist violence like Cast Lead.

All human beings have the right of self defence but zionist object to people defending themselves against the zionist agenda. Invariably zionists will call anyone an antiSemites even if the victim is a Semite himself!

The second video is by Walid Shoebat, a Palestinian traitor living in the US who has been completely discredited. The guy has low intelligence, is semi illiterate and is a pathological liar. Walid Shoebat calls all Muslims extremists and says, “To combat militant Muslims, kill them…including the children”.

Israel killed 400+ Palestinian children in Cast Lead by shelling schools and homes.

edit on 16-1-2011 by Ilovecatbinlady because: typo
edit on Sun Jan 16 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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You are clearly a deranged person if you support dressing little kids in terrorists outfits and fake guns.
This is called brainwash, and by stating your support of it you have revealed your true nature.

You have no place calling anyone (not even Zionists) evil or inhumane after such statements.

As for the children deaths, Hamas is the cause.


If Hamas wanted to protect it's people so bad it wouldn't be shooting from civilian compounds, not to mention school yards as shown in the video above. Cast lead.. heh.

Hamas dresses children up as terrorists, Hamas fires from inside schools, yet Israel are evil for returning fire. Heh.

There is plenty evidence to such display of cowardness, and people like you are the people that give Hamas it's needed support for continuing it's self-destruction of the Palestinian people.

When you fire from behind a child, you have no place to complain that you and the child you're hiding behind are dead. It's cold, yes, but I wish Hamas was a brave force that fights outside of civilian population like the way an army is supposed to fight.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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If you think Israel's government is weak natured politically correct and forgiving like some European countries (which I will not name
), well guess again.

Israel will remove any threat to it's own citizens even if it means taking out a launcher inside a neighborhood. Palestinian people are not better than Israeli people, especially in the eyes of the Israeli government of course.



This still does not mean that Israel wakes up one day and decides to kill innocent children. What would we gain by doing that? Nothing. Nobody wants to see children dead, apart from Hamas. Hamas will be happy to see Palestinian children die aslong as they support their cause.

If Hamas would've operated from desolated areas or from their own compounds you can rest assured no civilian will be harmed.
edit on 16-1-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)






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