Palestina recongized as "Free and Sovereign Nation" within 1967 borders.

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posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 

Well APPARENTLY the Jordanians DID have that claim, that right, and that inclination.

And it must have been legitimate as there was no hell-raising by the locals!

Now was there?

Your next argument?




posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 


Point of fact, the Israelis DID have tanks and such; those were the Czech weapons. They also had both German and British "leftovers" from the middle eastern front in WW2.

And yes, the Arab league got roflstomped. See, you have to understand the culture of Arab warfare. That crap that Azzam Pasha was saying? Pure rhetoric. The Arab league would have happily negotiated terms after a few mostly ceremonial skirmishes.

Of course, Israel was fighting in the European school of warfare, where if you say "Kill 'em all!" then you mean, goddamnit, kill 'em all.

In Arab culture, warfare is sort of like professional wrestling in America. Lots of shouting, lots of gesturing, some dancing, and scattered around, maybe a minute or two of actual fighting, just to keep the audience entertained. It's more about showing off, making grand gestures and thundering statements, than it is about actually fighting to win.

This is why Saudi jets fired their missiles at the rivers in Gulf War 1. it's why Jordan got its butt kicked in 1948. It's why the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan wasted so much ammy shooting their guns like Scarface. And it's why Saddam Hussein scared the hell out of everyone over there; 'Cause he waged war like America or Europe did, fighting to win with maximum body count.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 

Well APPARENTLY the Jordanians DID have that claim, that right, and that inclination.

And it must have been legitimate as there was no hell-raising by the locals!

Now was there?

Your next argument?


I'm afraid they didn't, and there was lots of hell-raising from the locals. Where do you think Fatah got its start? Seriously, dude, there's no shortage of literature out there. Pick some up.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 
Please don't take any of what I write personally.
Like you said, I don't know you.
I mean these things in a general sense and to provoke some actual thought and to wake people up from a state of complacency. That's the real enemy in my opinion. People who don't care but of course I am not able to speak to them because they probably are not on ATS because they like ignorance.
And so my frustration and I don't mean to take it out on you specifically but you make a bit of a target so I will play off your post. I have had varying opinions over the years and a lot of the problems came from my not being able to see all the possible sides of the argument. The internet has done a lot to break down that barrier and it is good to see some people are able to take advantage of it and learn something. My focus is on the people who think they are going to be saved because they go to church and I think the opposite may be more true because there is an agenda from the dark side of the spiritual aspect of reality who realize the benefit of buying up all the preachers to secretly join them, just like how it is done with politicians but a little more obviously.


edit on 23-1-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by backinblack
 

BackinBlack, I was a soldier, and no, I don't love war. As a soldier, I hated it more than you as I invested a lot more than you, and it cost me personally a whole lot more than you.

So don't go telling me what I love and what I don't.

I said I respect a nation that can win in spite of overwhelming odds. Surrounded too?

And this wasn't luck.

On May 15, 1948, the day the surrounding nations attacked Israel, Azzam Pasha, the Secretary General of the Arab League said, "This will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."

They were attacked by a coalition of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia.

This new nation of Israel had no vehicles, no tanks, no aircraft, and literally bought some surplus weapons from the Czechs. And they beat all these well-established nations!

God, you gotta love it!

Threatened with massacre - attacked by hordes - and win? Damn, man! That's courage. Guts. Determination. The sign of some canny men. Every good thing in a man enabled them to prevail.

Same thing in 1967, but this time there were multiple threats and promises to wipe out Israel and make the ground run with their blood from Syria, Egypt, and even Jordan.

And they too, even though they heavily outnumbered Israel in every category, plus able to come at Israel from three sides - and once again they get slaughtered?

They became the slaughter-ees rather than the slaughter-ors?

Then the dumbasses had to attack Israel again in 1973.

You see, stupid people are a bit slower to realize things. Really stupid people take decades.

Those that aren't killed.


The 48 war Israel had help..
The 67 war Israel started...
Israel was not created for peace..
They knew there would be war before it was created...



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by nenothtu
 
Please don't take any of what I write personally.


No problem. I mat be pretty offensive, bu I'm not all that offend-able, although I have my moments!




My focus is on the people who think they are going to be saved because they go to church and I think the opposite may be more true because there is an agenda from the dark side of the spiritual aspect of reality who realize the benefit of buying up all the preachers to secretly join them, just like how it is done with politicians but a little more obviously.


Agreed. That's precisely what I was referring to a few posts back when I mentioned folks who think they can "get to heaven on a technicality". One of my favorite phrases, but it just doesn't work quite like that.

No harm, no foul.



edit on 2011/1/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 


The whole process of Israel becoming a state reminds me of most places voting on unsavoury topics..

It's like voting on where to put a toxic dump..

All those in favour were miles away and in fact moved the problem further away by their vote..

It was the ones that suddenly had a toxic dump on their front lawn that voted no..

Sounds about right to me......



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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Ilovecatbinlady, you seem to like the idea of Palesinians right to kill Israel.

How about you do something about it instead of whine at your computer for so long?
You don't even use valid arguments or present valid opinions.. all you do is spread your idiotic hate towards Israel in your posts.

"The rocket attacks are insignificant."
"You forget that the birth of Israhell was a bloody 60 breach birth."
"What the Palestinians need are real weapons to kill zionist murderers."
"The Palestinians are entitled to kill the zionist."
"If anyone has a right to kill the settler zionist Jew, it is the Palestinian."
"and the reast of you zionist creatures."
"until you rapacious zionists Jews turned up in your rat infested ships."


Lol.
How about you either stfu or start living up to your obvious goal in life? I suggest moving in Gaza to fight the holy cause.

Maybe we'll even get to meet once a year when my duty calls.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 

Well, it's a done deal. Israel is not only a legitimate state/nation, but it's going to stay.

Toxic? The toxicity seems to originate from those nations and peoples around them.

And for the record, anytime you say you're on a mission of extermination - you better hope those you intend to exterminate don't turn around and do you for attacking.

And if Israel made a mistake, it was in being way too lenient. Too generous.

Of course, all those bad-ass Arabs, once they start getting their asses kicked start screaming like little girls for help from the international community.

The next time Israel is attacked, it's going to piss me off if they prematurely call off the dogs of war as they've done in the past.

Do unto others as they intend to do to you.

An eye for an eye.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 



The next time Israel is attacked, it's going to piss me off if they prematurely call off the dogs of war as they've done in the past.
Do unto others as they intend to do to you.
An eye for an eye.


Even Israeli history tells us they started a lot of the wars..


An eye for an eye??
With Israel it's more like 50 eyes for 1 eye....



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 

Yep! That's how it's supposed to work!

I laughed when the Gazans week after week kept launching rockets at Israel, and after firm warnings to stop, continued to do so.

And there were actually idiots saying Israel had overreacted!

What happened at Carthage is overdoing it. After leveling a place, there's no use in salting the ground.

Once again, there will be no nation of Palestine.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady
 


You amuse me to no end!

The only "rapacious settler zionist Jew murderer creatures" that exist are the ones in your imagination, the ones that you make your mommy and daddy check under the bed and in the closet for each night before you'll finally go to sleep.

Do you suffer other delusions as well, or are they all involving "rapacious settler zionist Jew murderer creatures"?

Help is only a phone call away, and if you can't get help there, please, get help somewhere...

Your off the wall rhetoric sounds an AWFUL lot like some Aryan Nations folks I've heard talking. Matter of fact, I think that "Palestinians" would get along splendidly with Aryan Nation folks. Same thoughts, same goals, even the same speech patterns. Maybe they should hold a barbecue every year and party together. At least that way, the sane people in the world could have one day of peace a year while they were thus occupied - patting each other on the back and turning the pig on the spit over the fire...



edit on 2011/1/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady
 


You amuse me to no end!
The only "rapacious settler zionist Jew murderer creatures" that exist are the ones in your imagination, the ones that you make your mommy and daddy check under the bed and in the closet for each night before you'll finally go to sleep.
Do you suffer other delusions as well, or are they all involving "rapacious settler zionist Jew murderer creatures"?
Help is only a phone call away, and if you can't get help there, please, get help somewhere...


I don't know about that..
It seems pretty obvious by their posts that FarArcher would like nothing less than to glass the lot..
If that's how the everage Israeli thinks then I can understand tags like that...



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


FarArcher isn't an Israeli at all.

I have to agree, though, that picking one side or the other and glassing the lot of them would certainly settle the issue. Unfortunately, It's my understanding that would pretty much ruin the land for several years to come, so the "victors" in that exchange wouldn't gain much, whichever way it went.

It's a bit odd to me that everyone else around there has more or less come to terms with Israel's existence, and don't kick up much sand about it any more. They're not exactly having sleep-overs and such, but at least they're not on a constant attack. The only exceptions are non-nations, like "Palestinians" and Hizbollah.

It also strikes as odd that after 60 years, none of their Arab brethren will STILL welcome the "Palestinians" with open arms, like you would think brethren would. After 60 years, they are STILL refugees, most being born as refugees at this point, and their bretheren turn the cold shoulder and force them to stay out in the rain. I'm guessing there must be a reason for that. What do you reckon it might be?



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by backinblack
 


FarArcher isn't an Israeli at all.
I have to agree, though, that picking one side or the other and glassing the lot of them would certainly settle the issue. Unfortunately, It's my understanding that would pretty much ruin the land for several years to come, so the "victors" in that exchange wouldn't gain much, whichever way it went.
It's a bit odd to me that everyone else around there has more or less come to terms with Israel's existence, and don't kick up much sand about it any more. They're not exactly having sleep-overs and such, but at least they're not on a constant attack. The only exceptions are non-nations, like "Palestinians" and Hizbollah.
It also strikes as odd that after 60 years, none of their Arab brethren will STILL welcome the "Palestinians" with open arms, like you would think brethren would. After 60 years, they are STILL refugees, most being born as refugees at this point, and their bretheren turn the cold shoulder and force them to stay out in the rain. I'm guessing there must be a reason for that. What do you reckon it might be?


Not sure, maybe the same reason the west and europe were happy when the jews moved to Israel, far away from them....Who knows???



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Exactly! That's what I think, too! Or at least part of it. They kick up trouble everywhere they go, and none of their brethren want them around. I mean, who WOULD want that in their own house?

I may be a bit biased at the moment, though. In the last month I've been host to two Palestinians who put an awful lot of effort into taking advantage of my good heart. I finally put them out of my house, too.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I can't honestly say I have met any Palestinians so it's hard for me to answer that..
Though I have traveled a LOT and really haven't met a race of people I didn't like..
Well actually there is one race I find kind of arrogant and no, it's not the Americans...



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


I've never met a race of people I don't like, either. I try to do my evaluations on an individual level. Palestinians aren't a "race" per se, nor are they a nationality. I'm really not sure what they are, beyond a subset of Arab, maybe the remains of the Moabites or something like that, so "Palestinian" isn't a race.


"Palestine" hasn't ever been a nation, it's always been used as a descriptor for a region (like "the Outback" in Australia, or "the Southwest" in America), so "Palestinian" isn't a nationality, either. It's not a religion - most are muslim, but there are Christian Palestinians, too, so it's not a religious affiliation.

Maybe something like "hillbilly" in the US. We have a name they call us, but no nation associated with it, just a vaguely-defined geographic area. Strangely, our US "brethren" don't want us around much, either, unless there's some scrappin' to be done where they can stand safely behind us and watch...

I've met people all over, liked some, detested others, but race or nationality never entered into the equation. The guy who taught me Arabic was a Syrian, fought at the Golan Heights in 1967. A pretty good fellow, even if he WAS a Syrian. Pretty highly opinionated, and had a hereditary hatred of Israelis, but not really a bad guy at his core. I've interacted with Salvadorans, Nicaraguans, Cubans, Bosnians, Serbs, Arabs, Afghans, Rhodesians, Thais, Chinese, South Africans, Pakistanis, Palestinians - lots of folks, from all over, and can't thing of a single one that I had a national, racial, or religious beef with beyond the usual political frictions, which I never held against the individuals from those places. Now, on an individual level, some of those rubbed me so hard the wrong way that I'd just as soon have rolled in their carcass as looked at them, but that was on them, individually.

Hell, I even managed to strike up a friendship with an Australian without us killing each other off, and you know how disagreeable those Aussies can be!



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



Hell, I even managed to strike up a friendship with an Australian without us killing each other off, and you know how disagreeable those Aussies can be!


Yeah but after we beat eachother senseless, we go off for a beer together..





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