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If human opinion creates 'good' and 'bad', how can we actually determine God is 'good' and Sat

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



Cool stats bro, the wikipage you linked doesn't aim to correlate Atheism and Crime Rate. People can be civil without God, there are many secular charities out there.


Hold on a second, you brought up Sweden and it's crime rates as an example that a majority Atheist nation has morals. Charities? You're now grasping at straws since your crime rate argument was shredded by the facts.




posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Okandetre
The problem with the OP is that you are assuming God actually exists.


HAHA, this is R,F&T forum. Unless it's specifically being addressed in the thread's topic it's ASSUMED for sake of argument here that He does exist. Try reading the stickied thread "ALL MEMBERS READ ~ Moving past Religion 101 and Staying on Topic". Get on board with the rules for the forum, are you new around here???



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 



The Bible is clear in the New Testament we are no longer under subjection of the old Testament other then the 10 commandments, killing is wrong; that does not mean defending one self or others, and I would say that does not mean after your country starts a war then as a Christian you are OK,ed to kill either.


The hebrew says "You shall not murder." Self-defense, or defense of others is different. Christ only said to turn the other cheek, that's a fistfight. Christ never said not to protect your life when it's in danger.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by Pervius
God was created in 1610 as a new English word made up from nothing.

YHWH is good. He's going to be really mad people call him "god".

He ordered everyone to call him YHWH.


He told Moses to tell them His name was "I AM".

In fact, He uses many terms, I'd assume His names are more than the stars in heaven.

He cares about the spirit, not the letter of the law. He looks at your heart, do you love Him or reject or deny Him.

If you love Him, and glorify Him as God that's all that He cares about.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by freedish
In God's eye we are ALL bad (evil). The only way to become good is to accept Jesus into your heart and then you are forgiven for being bad.


Err, we never become "good", but justified. We move from a unrepentant sinner to a repentant one. We are all "bad" guys, and Jesus was the only good "man".

"If the Bible was a western, we'd all have on black hats and Jesus would be the only dude with a white one." ~ Mark Driscoll




The holy spirit cannot live in an unrighteous person...therefor we are righteous by the blood of Jesus and are 'good'. Sure we can still sin and do 'wrong' according to human standards...but according to God we are now righteous and redeemed. It's almost like we get to switch places with Jesus. What a loving and gracious God we have.

Romans 3:20-24
20wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin.

21And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets,

22and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference,

23for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --

24being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus,
edit on 21-1-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by Noncompatible
 





Sounds selfish to me. As does being "good" to buy your way into an afterlife.


Eternal life is a free gift.

You can't bribe God for everlasting life.


I would like to ask you a question.

If you were going to start a company or organization, would you hire or select just anybody, or would you be selective in who you accepted?


Interesting, I actually do run my own company. I hire the qualified. Which simply resets the loop your trying to disprove.
Namely: The qualified must be the "good" as defined by the deity, however (let us avoid dragging the politics in here) that could mean one who is "good" using different criteria is by others definition a mass murderer. BUT they both purport to worship the same deity. (deliberately generalistic to avoid the politics)

So let's define good and evil again shall we ?

Faith is akin to wishing. Believe as hard as you want, it still won't change the truth.
edit on 21-1-2011 by Noncompatible because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by Noncompatible
 





Interesting, I actually do run my own company. I hire the qualified. Which simply resets the loop your trying to disprove.



Hiring people is a very important decision, as you know. It is an investment.

I am sure you look for competency. Perhaps you also look for potential. Employees may come to you a little raw, but if they have a good work ethic and a desire to learn they can be a great long term hire. You probably also hire people with experience, as long as they fit your system.

Sometimes people have the skills to perform the job, but they have a self destructive lifestyle that interferes with their job performance. Maybe they aren't a team player, they might not work well with others. Perhaps they aren't good with customers. They may be a bad influence on the other workers and effect productivity.

Sometimes you have to fire people.

When it happens, it is almost always never "their fault". They go back to their friends and family and tell everyone what a jerk you were to work for.

And how unreasonable your standards were.

By the way.

Why do you get to decide who is qualified and who isn't?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


I agree with what you said. However, we don't become "good". At least not until we are given glorified bodies.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by Noncompatible
 





Interesting, I actually do run my own company. I hire the qualified. Which simply resets the loop your trying to disprove.



Hiring people is a very important decision, as you know. It is an investment.

I am sure you look for competency. Perhaps you also look for potential. Employees may come to you a little raw, but if they have a good work ethic and a desire to learn they can be a great long term hire. You probably also hire people with experience, as long as they fit your system.

Sometimes people have the skills to perform the job, but they have a self destructive lifestyle that interferes with their job performance. Maybe they aren't a team player, they might not work well with others. Perhaps they aren't good with customers. They may be a bad influence on the other workers and effect productivity.

Sometimes you have to fire people.

When it happens, it is almost always never "their fault". They go back to their friends and family and tell everyone what a jerk you were to work for.

And how unreasonable your standards were.

By the way.

Why do you get to decide who is qualified and who isn't?








Shortest possible answer. Bulk of your post is anecdotal and therefore requires no answer.

Final question should be self explanatory........... My company, my requirements, my investment.
When someone else is hiring...............Their company, their requirements, their investment.

A point for your consideration. I (and my mangers) have never fired anyone. We simply fill out the paperwork.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


It's crime rates are not too similar from any other 1st world country. Atheism isn't the cause of crime rate, it's an idiotic correlation to make. That's all i have to say. All i say that Sweden is as civilised as any other country, if not more. Most atheists are decent people and are altruistic, it's about time people stop labelling them as the devil's spawn, it's rediculous.




edit on 22/1/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 





Ricky Gervais


What is interesting is that I believe that you are a soul.

When you die you are gone. But there is hope.

Just because you are "religious" doesn't mean you are doing good things. Pharisees were religious.

Like Gervais I believe the "earth was made" but not in six literal days.

Like Gervais I get a "funny feeling when I see a friend, or a mountain".

Gervais believes you should be good to others and they will be good to you.




However, Gervais believes that he should decide what is right and wrong.

That is simply not reality. Government decides right and wrong. Employers decide right and wrong.
Consumers decide what is right and wrong, and they shape his career. Gervais has a limited parameter to make his choices based on outside opinion.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Noncompatible
 





Final question should be self explanatory........... My company, my requirements, my investment. When someone else is hiring...............Their company, their requirements, their investment.


That is reasonable.

God made an investment.

A hostile take over ensued.

God is the Designer and Creator, He knows how His company should operate.

He has requirements.

We are all here on His dime.


A point for your consideration. I (and my mangers) have never fired anyone. We simply fill out the paperwork.


I am not clear as to your last point.

Your company has never let anyone go?

Or do you and your managers delegate that responsibility?

If that is the case. Perhaps your former employees or subcontractors view you as aloof and uncaring, unconcerned with day to day operations.

Perhaps your name is used as an excuse. "Sorry this comes from the top".

The point is that your company was designed to work a certain way, and your people have to meet your standards.

If not, you may simply choose not to renew their contract.



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


I take it you do not understand the concept that people fire themselves ?

So much complexity for one simple truth : People are responsible for their own actions. They fire themselves. I do the paperwork.
With regards to the former. You presuppose a belief in a deity. I have none. Care to try again ?

edit on 22-1-2011 by Noncompatible because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


thanks for that video AW, I needed to see that.

lights out after the body dies just does not sound too fun at all, he even looks like he doubts himself...

he adopted his values from a christian upbringing then casts them aside because he is no longer a pauper, sounds about right... same as that Hungarian novelist said in this book I am trying to think of, in effect money let you make your own rules and even laws in a country... guess it's the same for individuals?

This atheist cast his Christianity aside when he was 8 years old not fully understanding what it means at that age, but now in fact he is his own "good" but isn't it quite obvious no man is perfect?

the funny man ain't so funny now !



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by Noncompatible
 





I take it you do not understand the concept that people fire themselves ?


So do your employees hire themselves as well?




So much complexity for one simple truth : People are responsible for their own actions. They fire themselves. I do the paperwork.


I agree that people are responsible for there own actions.

As for firing themselves, well.....


4. fire - terminate the employment of; discharge from an office or position; "The boss fired his secretary today"; "The company terminated 25% of its workers"

Freedictionary


When you want to dismiss an employee and terminate their employment, you must give them the proper notice period. This should be outlined in their employment contract, which you should have given to them when you first hired them. You may also have outlined your company's staff dismissal policy at the start of their employment if you gave them a Dismissal and Disciplinary Procedure when they joined the company.


Link



Your employees "fire themselves", hmm, I doubt that would hold up in court.

So you don't hire or fire people, you "just do the paperwork".


As to your final point. Why are you posting in this thread if you don't believe in God or Satan?



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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we either buy the book or not...
methodology (a sharpness of tease)... was "felt" more than was heard


darn is that Mike Tyson ?


edit:

quite an emotional ending when he can not refute or answer the questions in a rational and logical discourse.
edit on 1/22/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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we can determine the good from the bad via Charlatanism 101...

play on the peoples heartfelt beliefs and make lots of money and stand out in the media, get attention, write a book, make more money to do thy own bidding.

mind you not saving a single life in Africa let alone his own Country.

I can determine the good from the bad by peoples humanitarianism is most cases such as these...

where were atheism's humanitarian missionaries again



posted on Jan, 22 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


America recycles


sorry I can not get enough of this video... just too many point to make.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


If you cannot understand the concept of "The only thing a worker needs to do is his job."
Then you cannot hope to understand the simple fact that 100% of "firings" in a successful, profitable business are self-inflicted by the employee simply by failing at the task they are paid to perform.
The court statement is indicative of current attitudes. Employers do not OWE their employees a job, we pay them for their work. There was a time when that dynamic was understood.

With regard to being in this thread. If the proposition is human opinion creates good and bad, then the supplementary question does not require belief. It merely requires answering. As a consequence of such, the conclusion that there is no deity and his evil child is a valid and needed position. After all there is more than one deity to be considered, mankind has had many "gods". Plus if you read the book, I'm sure you revere, in its original form you'll find that the "bad" one was not originally portrayed as such.

Ultimately there is no good, there is no evil. There is simply point of view.

A Christian would say God is good.
A Muslim would say God is good.

But many on both sides would denounce the other as sinful, evil or corrupt.

Yet they both worship the same deity.............differing points of view nothing more.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Noncompatible
 





If you cannot understand the concept of "The only thing a worker needs to do is his job." Then you cannot hope to understand the simple fact that 100% of "firings" in a successful, profitable business are self-inflicted by the employee simply by failing at the task they are paid to perform


An employee may be really good at his job. What if he engages in sexual harassment? What if he steals from the company? What if he shows up drunk, but still can perform his duties?

An employee normally agrees to a code of conduct. If he breaks the code, it is grounds for termination.

I find it odd that you are abdicating your role in firing people.

The truth is we judge employees.

We judge their performance, as well as their conduct in the workplace. If they do not meet our standards, we fire them, for the good of the company.








Employers do not OWE their employees a job, we pay them for their work. There was a time when that dynamic was understood.



I agree with that statement.










Ultimately there is no good, there is no evil. There is simply point of view.


Your viewpoint is dangerous.

edit on 23-1-2011 by dusty1 because: (no reason given)



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