"Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Besides, the paying jobs are in the political forums, not in the skunkworks section

How do you know?

reply to post by Mary Rose

You don't know what the winking emoticon means?

All I can say for sure is I don't get paid to write anywhere on ATS.

And the wink means I don't take these claims too seriously:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by popsmayhem
We get 50 cent per post.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
You don't know what the winking emoticon means?

I know what it means sometimes: The person using it thinks he knows it all.

reply to post by Mary Rose


It seems to me like the people who seem to be know-it-alls are the ones who claim science is a religion, mainstream science is wrong, and they know this because they know more than the scientists who spend their entire professional career studying a topic. Sound like anyone you know?

I, on the other hand, admitted the scientists probably know things about their field of study I don't, and I don't claim they're all wrong.

On the third hand, it doesn't take much to be wrong less often than Dale pond and Marko Rodin. A stump could do that.

I like this:

Nature, especially music, works on a natural basis. The human tendency to "round off" is never found in nature. The (in)human decimal (Metric) system has naught to do with naturally occuring phenomena which seems to prefer whole number ratios and proportions whether base 3, 5, 7 or 12 or other.

Source

Originally posted by Mary Rose

The (in)human decimal (Metric) system has naught to do with naturally occuring phenomena which seems to prefer whole number ratios and proportions whether base 3, 5, 7 or 12 or other.

Source

How does Rodin's "mathematics" hold up in base 3, 5, or 7, where the symbol "9" doesn't even exist?

This is some of the most obvious evidence his claims are complete nonsense, and you just stumbled right into it with that quote.

reply to post by Mary Rose


Sounds a bit like how nature is never linear...

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
This is some of the most obvious evidence . . .

So, you're agreeing with the quote?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by Mary Rose

 

It seems to me like the people who seem to be know-it-alls are the ones who claim science is a religion, mainstream science is wrong, and they know this because they know more than the scientists who spend their entire professional career studying a topic. Sound like anyone you know?

I wish I could give out more than one star to you.
That was a very appropriate thing to point out.

reply to post by SoulVisions

1. Religious texts can contain valid clues/information about how the universe works.
   
2. Length of time studying a topic is irrelevant when the evidence being considered is limited to what is allowed in by powerful vested interests uninterested in the truth.
   

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
This is some of the most obvious evidence . . .

So, you're agreeing with the quote?

I agree that base 3, 5, or 7 or other bases are mathematically valid numbering systems just as valid as the base 10 we often use. Two other bases that I've used are base 2 (binary) and base 16 (aka hexadecimal) which are useful in computer applications. Now do you agree that there is no "9" symbol in base 3, 5, or 7?

Regarding the rest of the quote, when I look at nature, sometimes I see preferences for certain types of numbers or ratios and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I see things which are fractal and sometimes I don't. I think the main fault in that quote is that it is an attempt to anthropomorphize nature. It's humans who (sometimes) have such preferences, and nature doesn't really care what human preferences are that I can tell. If nature was the way we wanted it to be it might be a lot different.

I also think it's pretty useless to talk in over-generalizations like that which are so broad as to be meaningless. If you read Mandelbrot's book on fractals, he doesn't over-generalize and claim everything is fractal...he points out the specific things which are fractal. As my earlier post of a fractal hand attempted to illustrate, our hands apparently aren't fractal since they don't look that way.

The giants causeway is an example of a natural formation where the rock shapes tend to prefer a whole number of sides:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9c5d7358bad6.jpg[/atsimg]
en.wikipedia.org...

In contrast, nature doesn't seem to prefer whole numbers for Pi. If Pi was a whole number, here's what a circle would look like (the blue section), and correspondingly, spherical bodies in nature would also not be complete spheres:



But planets and stars are obviously are complete spheres, an obvious testament to the fact that nature has no preference for whole numbers when it comes to spherical shapes and PI.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I commend you on your most excellent post!
An interesting area is the art of roughness, or irregularity:

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by SoulVisions

 

1. Religious texts can contain valid clues/information about how the universe works.
   
2. Length of time studying a topic is irrelevant when the evidence being considered is limited to what is allowed in by powerful vested interests uninterested in the truth.
   

I actually agree with both of these observations. They can be understood in so many ways too.

1. The bible mentions "above the circle of the earth" (globe), and "floating upon nothing" (in space). Very "wild" notions versus what was "known" at that time about the earth by the scientific community. There is plenty to learn from texts of this sort, no doubt.

2. As for length of time... It doesn't matter how long you try and push it into the round hole, the square peg you're only allowed to use won't fit.

My comment to Arbitrageur wasn't directed at you, really.
I was just concurring with the general truth he had written.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I like this:

Nature, especially music, works on a natural basis. The human tendency to "round off" is never found in nature. The (in)human decimal (Metric) system has naught to do with naturally occuring phenomena which seems to prefer whole number ratios and proportions whether base 3, 5, 7 or 12 or other.

Of course you "like this". It conforms to pre-K level of development, before kids learn fractions and all. So it's natural for you.

And of course in this quote Mr.Pond once again demonstrates the truly abysmal level of knowledge of just about anything. Whole numbers are found in nature where there are cases of discrete symmetries, but these are few and far in between.

There are vast number of phenomena which are characterized by exponential growth or decay, from electric circuits to radioactivity. Now, look at the exponential function. What you'll find at the heart of exponential function is Euler's number.

And,

Like the constant π, e is irrational; it is not a ratio of integers; and it is transcendental

So Mr.Pond, call me when you graduate from K to the 1st grade. In the meantime, stop talking nonsense.

don't write off the manifestation of 9 yet. 9 is just three threes. the first odd number in 3 dimensions (cubed).

excerpt from "Quadrivium":

The Ennead: three threes

Nine is the triad of triads, the first odd square number, and with it something extraordinary occurs, for the first nine numbers can be arranged in a magic square where every line of three in any direction has the same total. This ancient number pattern was first spotted fou rmillennia ago on the shell of a divine turtle emerging from the river Lo in China.

Three times three is one more than two times two times two, and the ratio between 9 and 8 defines the crucial whole tone in music, the 9:8 seed from which the scale emerges, as the difference between the two most simple harmonies in the octave, the fifth 3:2, and the fourth 4:3.

There are 9 regular three-dimensional shapes: the 5 platonic solids and the four stellar kepler-poinsot polyhedra (Book3). 9 appears in our bodies as the cross-section of the tentacle-like cilia, which move things around our surfaces, and the bundles of microtubes in centrioles, essential for cell division.

9 is the celestial number of order, and many ancient traditions speak of nine worlds, spheres, or levels of reality. cats know. they have nine lives, dress to the nines whenever possible, and seem to spend most of their time on cloud nine, wherever that is.

Originally posted by metalshredmetal

9 appears in our bodies as the cross-section of the tentacle-like cilia, which move things around our surfaces, and the bundles of microtubes in centrioles, essential for cell division.

Here is a scan of the illustration that goes with the above excerpt from the book:

Originally posted by metalshredmetal
don't write off the manifestation of 9 yet. 9 is just three threes. the first odd number in 3 dimensions (cubed).

excerpt from "Quadrivium":

9 appears in our bodies as the cross-section of the tentacle-like cilia, which move things around our surfaces, and the bundles of microtubes in centrioles, essential for cell division.
...
9 is the celestial number of order, and many ancient traditions speak of nine worlds, spheres, or levels of reality. cats know. they have nine lives

I was about to compliment you for making the first claim about 9 in this thread I've seen in a long time that's actually true, as we do see nine microtubule doublets in primary cilia, though those are doublets so isn't it really sort of like 18 microtubules? Also, in motile cilia there are two more single microtubules in the middle for a total of 11 (9 doublets plus two singles, or if you're counting the microtubules instead of doublets, 18+2=20 total microtubules). So I'm not so sure 9 is that sacred when those factors are included but at least there's some truth to the claim.

However then your source had to spoil that moment of partial truth with the "cats know. they have nine lives" statement. I've heard the expression but I thought it was just a dramatization of the remarkable ability cats have to survive falls, so they don't really have nine lives. But did you know this?

Why do people say that cats have nine lives?

Most are surprised to learn that a cat stands a greater chance of survival if it falls from a higher place than from a lower place. New York veterinarians gathered data from their feline patients, which clearly support this fact. Ten percent of their patients died after falling from 2-6 stories, while only five percent of the fatalities occurred when their patients fell from 7-32 stories.

Anyway it's nice to see a few real facts thrown in with the superstitious and religious claims...it keeps people guessing about which is which (if they don't know any better)! Cats do have some amazing abilities to survive falls, but they don't really have nine lives.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


i understand what you're saying,

i was hesitant to provide those last sentences because I knew someone here would hastily (and without warrant) discredit the entire passage because of them, as this is a usual tactic for reckless discredition in this thread.

I believe the author(s) only included those last tidbits in order to illustrate the mysterious relationship to 9 that comes up in our common american "sayings" & catch phrases.

i.e. "cats have 9 lives", "you're dressed to the nines", "floating on cloud 9", "love potion number 9", etc.

i recommend everyone (yes i do mean everyone) in this thread should check out "quadrivium",,,it's all about the sciences of number, geometry, music & cosmology.

although, beware, skeptics: it does have a lot of "torus-esque" connotations. because they (toroids & their "parts") turn up in geometry, music & cosmology in some interesting ways

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by metalshredmetal

9 appears in our bodies as the cross-section of the tentacle-like cilia, which move things around our surfaces, and the bundles of microtubes in centrioles, essential for cell division.

Here is a scan of the illustration that goes with the above excerpt from the book:

ah, where'd you find that pic? when I was compiling my post i was looking online for the pictures that go along with "the ennead" section...do you have the book? i recommend it !

reply to post by Arbitrageur


lol - that looks like lies, damned lies, and statistics - I wonder how many cats from each group are not brought to vets because they either are obviously dead or survived without any injury and so wasn't bought to the vet??

I'm not alone in wondering this.....

One source for this notes that many of the cats that were put down by their owners after falling did NOT have any serious injuries - they were euthanised because the owner could not or did not want to pay for medical treatment!

anyway - a little OT - I now return you to our scheduled programme of religious-style mathematical revelations......