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"Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

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posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose
Yes, Feynman stated the obvious.

But you seem to think that experiments are like God downloading answers to a computer.

No matter what new experimentation shows, it will have to be evaluated and interpreted and debated all over again.
Maybe, maybe not. I would agree that the interpretation of some experimental results can be somewhat ambiguous, and new experiments sometimes raise more new questions than they answer. However some experimental results are not so ambiguous and don't leave much room for interpretation, so it depends.

Your assertion is false that "no matter what new experimentation shows...." because not all experimental results are that ambiguous or leave so much room for interpretation. It really depends on the experiment.

I kind of like this experiment because it's both simple and dramatic:

Galileo Galilei Proven Right


The astronauts drop a hammer and a feather and they both hit the surface of the moon at the same time. So I think the interpretation that whatever caused them to fall at different rates on the Earth is not present in any appreciable amounts on the moon is a pretty unequivocal interpretation, don't you?

How much confidence we can place in the interpretation of any individual experiment depends on the specifics of that experiment.

Edit to add: There's a message at the end of the video related to your discussion with buddhasystem!

edit on 19-11-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification




posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


So, is that what you anticipate for the Pusey et al paper outcome? Something cut-and-dried?

That's a rhetorical question.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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ATTENTION ALL

Can we please tone it down and make it less personal and more topic-focused.

Thank you.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose
That's what I intend to do: Follow on YouTube the young men (like Jason Verbelli) who are working on the coil as an open-source project. I think it's exciting.


I just did a google search for "open-source R&D for the Rodin Coil."

It brought up a blog of a person I've already posted on: Alex Petty.

Looking at his website again I read that actually Petty had worked on his own mathematics previous to working on Rodin's:

From "Energy Research - The online journal of Alexander S. Petty":


I have found another individual who, independently from my own efforts and discoveries, has also noticed some of the same hidden patterns in enumeration that I have. His name is Marko Rodin. While the interpretations of our discoveries (my Foundational Mathematics and his Vortex Mathematics) differ somewhat, he and I have recognized in one another that we are kindred spirits, brothers in this research and in the pursuit of higher truth.


He mentions a researcher named Shek Singhal. I have not heard that name before. And a website that is also new to me VortexSpace, which is a dot org.

I like the open-source concept. I'm looking for information about it. I presume it means people are not in it for the money. They make their living some other way.

Who has info on what open-source means and why people are involved in it?













edit on 11/20/11 by Mary Rose because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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Open source is a concept from software. People give their source code away. There are many open source licenses that specify what you can or can't do with other people's code. Look up GNU for instance.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose

I have found another individual who, independently from my own efforts and discoveries, has also noticed some of the same hidden patterns in enumeration that I have. His name is Marko Rodin.


Petty calls his math the Foundational Number System (FNS). He says this about it, from the page on his blog "The Foundational Number System (FNS)":


Some years ago, starting in earnest from about 1991, I have discovered (or perhaps re-discovered anciently known, but time forgotten) a numerical system which offers the human mind a kind of “tuned interface” with the framework of Creation. I feel that now is the time for me to begin sharing this information with others so as to catalyze the work.


I have the sense that Rodin's math is a re-discovery of "anciently known, but time forgotten" knowledge. Sort of like the knowledge that must have been present at the time the pyramids were built.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
Open source is a concept from software. People give their source code away.


Yeah I knew the term originated with software development.

Now I need to figure out how it applies to new energy R&D.


Originally posted by 547000
There are many open source licenses that specify what you can or can't do with other people's code. Look up GNU for instance.


Thank you for this. I had not thought of the term "license," as opposed to a patent.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose
Thank you for this. I had not thought of the term "license," as opposed to a patent.


Hmmmm. Maybe the Science page of the Creative Commons website is applicable?


R&D

The commons doesn’t begin and end with copyrighted works. We think open research materials are vital to innovation, not just data and documents; to that end, we’ve developed and deployed CC-inspired legal tools for transferring biological materials. For example, the Personal Genome Project licensed 1,000 lines of stem cells under CC’s Materials Transfer Agreement, CHDI’s repository of Huntingtons Disease research tools. And we have built a public patent licensing conversation through our involvement in the GreenXchange project.

We have also invested years in researching the realities of re-using open data at web scale through our Neurocommons project, which serves integrated life sciences databases and open-source software essential for re-using data.

Learn more

Visit our science portal on the Creative Commons wiki for more resources about CC and science, and to share your knowledge about open science. Follow what’s new in the world of CC in science via the science section of the CC blog.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Americanist

For those of you preferring not to waste time stating the obvious:




Originally posted by Mary Rose

The full documentary is now available online: "Thrive"

New energy technology is discussed in the context of the big picture of what's going on in the world.


The YouTube video has been deleted but I have the DVD. I recommend it. The Special Features Bonus Scenes are especially good. Lots of insight and inspiration for people who want to make a difference.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose
Thank you for this. I had not thought of the term "license," as opposed to a patent.
The open source license doesn't involve royalties like most commercial licenses, or patents. It's a license to keep unscrupulous people from trying to profit from open source materials:

www.opensource.org...

The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users. We, the Free Software Foundation, use the GNU General Public License for most of our software; it applies also to any other work released this way by its authors. You can apply it to your programs, too....

For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.
Bedini's free energy machine plans like the schoolgirl motor are open sourced, so you don't have to pay for those, but he charges $4000 for a kit so you don't have to start from scratch when building it.

And he doesn't promise it will work, it's just for "experimentation" which he claims he has to say to not get in trouble for making free energy claims, but I claim he has to say it to avoid charges of fraud.

It would be a cool idea for free energy gadgets if any of them worked, but at least it works for software.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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This Jamie Buturff YouTube video was uploaded September 2010 but I'm just discovering it today:


This is a device that consists of 6 bifilar (dual circuit) coils with 1" neodymium sphere magnets in the center. I show how the pair of 150 watt light bulbs would normally use 294 watts of electricity. I then run the electricity through the coil bank and show how the power consumption was reduced to 250 watts or a 15% savings.





posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose
This Jamie Buturff YouTube video was uploaded September 2010 but I'm just discovering it today


He put inductors in the circuit and reduced the current, and also introduced a phase shift between the voltage and the current. What's the big deal?

Jamie Buturff does not seem like the brightest bulb in the box.

But he does have a nifty music studio that you can see in the background of this vid.

EDIT TO ADD:
As a decent reference, want to bookmark this link
edit on 20-11-2011 by buddhasystem because: add



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 

Yeah he's got a fancy meter that even tells him his power factor is lower with the coils and he apparently has no idea what that even means!!! That's the PF on the output display with is a measure of the phase shift you're talking about. So his experiment confirms what I was taught my sophomore year in school and he thinks it's groundbreaking?


All that great equipment isn't so great if you don't know what you're doing!

Here's a tip that really works though, switch from incandescent to fluorescent and save 75% or switch to LED and save up to 80-90%! That's a real savings!

edit on 20-11-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur
That's the PF on the output display with is a measure of the phase shift you're talking about.


Thanks. I was suspecting that, just wasn't sure.

It's remarkable that he didn't try to run without the spherical magnets. Having a setup that you don't really understand and not knowing basic physics is one thing, but to lack curiosity to get an extra data point in such a simple way is something else.

You know, it's equally remarkable that these people never think twice before showering themselves or their brothers in ignorance with praise. "My experiment is groundbreaking", "I'm developing cutting edge math", "excellent lab", "breakthrough" etc. It's like I learned to sing "Old MacDonald had a farm", now I'm ready to pick up where Pavarotti left off. It's just sick.


edit on 20-11-2011 by buddhasystem because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 

That's a good video to demonstrate the value of education.

Before you can bestow some new "breakthtrough" concept upon the world, you have to know what the world already knows to know whether or not it's a breakthrough.

Here's another tip. The power factor correction devices that are used for industrial customers who run a lot of motors consist of capacitor banks and they actually do bring the power factor closer to one and save energy that way, and they can lower their electric bill with them.

There are people selling similar devices for residential use but depending on what type of residential meter you have it may not save you anything to install a power factor correction device in your home.

If you ran your washing machine 24 hours a day and if your meter measured your power the same way as the industrial customers, then it might actually help save on your electric bill, but you don't and it doesn't, so you probably won't save a penny and will just end up spending money for no benefit. In my case if I was metered the same way as industrial customers I calculated installing the capacitor would cost me more, because when I'm not running motors which is most of the time, it moves the power factor the other way, to the capacitance side.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Yes, a capacitor would help to pull the phase the other way.

It's a shame Butruff did not invest in a simple oscilloscope. There are older Tektronix models that can be had for $100 to $200 on eBay, which is a fraction of what he's likely paid for his W-meter and the controlled power source. They still kick major @ss as far as instrumentation goes. Basically that could be the only tool in a lab like his, it's a really versatile device. I love these (then of course there are digital models which allow the user to interface PC and such, and I also used those, but they are a lot more expensive).



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I contacted Jamie Buturff and asked:



Did you put inductors in the circuit and reduce the current? Did you introduce a phase shift between the voltage and the current? Is the PF on the meter display a measure of the phase shift, and is it telling you that the power factor is lower with the coils?


He answered:


Yes, the 6 coils your see in the video with the spinning magnets are technically "inductors". . . .


Now, as for the Pacific Power supply itself I did not change any settings on it except the frequency in Hertz (Hz). The amperage is determined by the draw of the load, not the power supply. I only had control over what voltage the unit was set at and that remained constant through the entire test. The frequency to get the neodymium sphere magnets to spin is 20Hz. I started the power supply with the same voltage as before and once the magnets started spinning I increased the frequency to 60Hz...The same 240VAC @ 60Hz most of us have in our homes.

So, to me it looks like I'm able to get 6 induction motors to run plus the two 150 watt incandescent lights to burn at a 15% reduction according to the meter, or the Hioki Power Analyzer. The Pacific Power supply was set up to mimic power that comes from the power company. The power analyzer would mimic the meter on your house that tells the power company how much to charge you for electrical use each month.

Also, phases "A" and "B" on the power supply were never changed, shifted, or messed with. The two phases of typical household current are 180 degrees out of phase with one another and this remained constant throughout the entire test.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I contacted Jamie Buturff ...He answered:


Also, phases "A" and "B" on the power supply were never changed, shifted, or messed with. The two phases of typical household current are 180 degrees out of phase with one another and this remained constant throughout the entire test.
He may not have messed with the input, but the coils shift the phase. He apparently doesn't understand this.

Look at the PF reading in his first test. It's 1.0 which means no phase shift.

Look at the PF value in his second test, it's no longer 1.0, so his own meter is telling him the phase has shifted, he just doesn't understand what it's telling him. If the PF reads anything other than 1.0, it means the phase has shifted.

But you don't even need the meter to tell that, it's a physical property of coils in electric circuits to shift the phase. One way to balance it is to introduce an equivalent amount of capacitors at the same time as you introduce the coils. He didn't show any capacitors.

Edit to add: Mary, did you send him that link Buddhasystem posted to explain the type of phase shift we're talking about? You probably should have sent that to him, because I don't think he has a clue what kind of phase shift he's got.
edit on 20-11-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Nov, 21 2011 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Edit to add: Mary, did you send him that link Buddhasystem posted to explain the type of phase shift we're talking about? You probably should have sent that to him, because I don't think he has a clue what kind of phase shift he's got.


Indeed. He does not seem to realize that the current and voltage are out of phase -- he is fixated on saying that his A and B leads are 180 degrees apart -- they are, however he's never looked at the current. He looked at the screen of the Hioki analyzer but could not read it properly.

The poor guy does not even realize that instead of creating savings, he's actually WASTING energy. What is truly staggering is that it would have taken him 15 seconds to find the info on inductors and power factor (which he did observe to go down in full compliance with Maxwell) on Google. Just enter "power factor energy waste". Why, oh why didn't he take time to EDUCATE himself before producing this self-defeating video, complete with ridiculous pomp, proclamations of grandeur and promise to help poor people around the world? That Rodin idiocy seems to be infectious.

And of course, in the video he says that he has coils acting as generators. In the letter to Mary, he says they act like motors. In a setup like his, he can't have it both ways. What a clueless person.

edit on 21-11-2011 by buddhasystem because: typo



posted on Nov, 21 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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I took a look at the video, and this does not seem to be a matter of phase shift or power factor, as the meter already calculates true power. The error he makes is even simpler. He connects the inductors in series with the bulbs. Apart from inductance, inductors also have a resistance. By setting the inductors in series the total impedance of his setup increases. As a result the current decreases and less power is drawn. You can even see the current drop on his power supply display. This means that the bulps are simply less bright, as the voltage over the bulps drop.

So he indeed "invented" a method to decrease power consumption. However, this invention is very old and is on the market already for a long time, with much more efficient implementations, see for example here.
edit on 21-11-2011 by -PLB- because: correction



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