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# "Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

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posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 03:35 PM

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Let's say you feed 100W, and get 101W at the output, which you immediately feed back to input, and it just goes exponentially!

Of course it won't be quite like that with magnets due to saturation, but I don't see this point addressed anywhere
The NASA scientists Nelson and House sort of address it by asking for the alleged overunity output to be connected to a dynamometer or a homemade dynamometer which they describe how to make cheaply by just wrapping a string around a spindle connected to the motor, and using the work done by lifting a load for the output calculation.

Also, the designer needs to test their motor under a known mechanical load. If they don’t have a dynamometer available, then the simplest way to do this is to simply have their motor lift a known weight by winding a string or flexible cable of some sort around a spindle. This will serve as their homemade “dynamometer” if you will. We need to know the amount of weight lifted, the height the weight is lifted and the speed the weight is lift to get an output power measurement. Normally the speed is determined by the RPM’s of the output spindle. So, if the designer knows the height lifted with each RPM then all we need to know is the RPM’s of the spindle (not the motor if gear ratios are involved) to have the lifting speed.
I sincerely think that particular test alone would debunk many of the over unity devices out there which may have even fooled their own inventors with false meter readings. This eliminates the issue with funky waveforms fooling output measurement meters which are typically only designed to display output of standard sinusoidal waveforms. (you can't fool a dynamometer as easily as you can a meter). And since the dynamometer consumes all the output, you really don't have the feedback loop issue you mentioned in that configuration.

So far I haven't heard of anyone performing that simple dynamometer test to convince Nelson and House that they have a device worth looking at critically.

About that sum of \$11M that Bearden claimed he needed for further R&D -- this is not a large sum of money to be sourced from venture capitalists. Completely doable. Provided, of course, that you can show a working device instead of stacks of \$19.99 DVDs meant for the ignorant citizenry (complete with "no returns" policy").
I don't recall if I've posted this video in this thread, but it demonstrates just how easy it is to get a million dollars. A shabbily dressed guy tells some potential investors he has an overunity device, and one guy jumps at the chance to give him a million dollars to build some power plants, IF he can prove the device is really over unity.

Dragon's Den - Vorktex MagnaCoaster Power Generation

I'm sure 11 million dollars wouldn't be much harder to get. Oh and the funny part about that which links it to the title of this thread is he mis-spelled Vortex. He seemed kind of surprised nobody had grabbed the name "Vorktex" yet, that is until he realized that "Vortex" doesn't have a "k" in it!

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I don't recall if I've posted this video in this thread, but it demonstrates just how easy it is to get a million dollars. A shabbily dressed guy tells some potential investors he has an overunity device, and one guy jumps at the chance to give him a million dollars to build some power plants, IF he can prove the device is really over unity.

Indeed. He would not have had a problem with \$50M either! Again, as long as the device works. Thanks for proving my point in such efficient way.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 04:31 PM

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Indeed. He would not have had a problem with \$50M either! Again, as long as the device works. Thanks for proving my point in such efficient way.
The investors seemed to have little doubt that GE might be willing to invest \$100 million for the main business if he had something that worked, so yeah, \$50 million wouldn't be a problem either. Or the \$11 million Bearden mentioned.

Willis was only asking for one million dollars for part ownership of one of the ancillary businesses.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 04:35 PM

Was there a demo, or did I miss it? Would be nice to see a self-contained apparatus which does something!

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 05:39 PM

Originally posted by buddhasystem
www.aetherenergy.com...

I commented to you that this could easily be made self-sustaining with a DC generator on the output shaft of the motor, and you agreed with that general conclusion.

This is referring to the Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge (PAGD) electric power generator technology - which is not the same as cold fusion, I understand.

Anyway, did Dr. P. Correa and Ms. A. Correa follow up? Not that I know of.

From what I can gather, they are focusing on theory rather than trying to develop and commercialize devices.

ABRI stands for Aurora Biophysics Research Institute. From a transcript of a May 18, 2001 interview (by clicking on "Events" and then highlighting the May 18, 2001 link) of the Correas by Luis Balula for Akronos Publishing:

LB - How did the ABRI effort congeal? What led you to it?

PC - The ABRI effort formally began with Aetherometry - eight years ago, when Alexandra and I felt completely discouraged by the difficulties we encountered in trying to communicate - let alone commercialize - the Labofex technology. Ultimately, we came to view this failure as a stroke of extraordinary good luck - it became clear to us that we didn't want to live our lives managing the applications of our inventions, in bed with the types of individuals we were coming in contact with - uncomprehending sponsors, frivolous speculators or dubious friends - who could at any moment turn into snakes while eyeing our economies as collateral. What we really wanted was to pursue our process of life and creation - and this was then possible, more than ever.

AC - We felt we were at a critical crossroads - we needed new tools of thought, basic physical and mathematical insights upon which we could build a new understanding of fundamental phenomena. Without them, there would have been no point in pursuing further experimental efforts. How can all these researchers speak so much of the electron and have so little idea of what the beast is actually like? Another slight of hand is how they unconsciously slide from using the term electron to the term charge, as if they were interchangeable! We had to make both the mathematical and semiological languages of science become more precise, more exacting. The phenomenon of charge is more universal and fundamental than that of inertia or mass.

PC - So we focused our energies upon understanding the electron without preconceived notions - following Einstein's advice, precisely. . . .

These are the kinds of questions they have been working on:

. . . Then came the problem of charge - which for years had been dogging us: how to understand charge? How to reduce it to fundamental dimensionality? How to extract the electric structure? Is charge always associated with inertia? Why are electrodynamic anomalies only observed in open or interrupted circuits? How to understand the coupling of kinetic energy to the mass-energy of an electron? . . .

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Mary Rose
This is referring to the Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge (PAGD) electric power generator technology - which is not the same as cold fusion, I understand.

No it's not. But this applies to any mechanism that has any power output, including gadgets in Correa's lab.

From what I can gather, they are focusing on theory rather than trying to develop and commercialize devices.

Well that's gotta be the lamest excuse I've heard so far. Having a self-powered perpetual motion machine demonstrates the theory like nothing else. If you show it to the editors at the "Nature" magazine etc, they will, after all, publish your article. On the other hand, if you don't have a good demo, everybody will consider you a bag of hot air -- precisely the case with Dr.Correa.

I'll skip the rest of mumbo-jumbo.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 05:56 PM

Originally posted by buddhasystem
No it's not.

Then what is it referring to, then?

Edit to add: What is not? You're agreeing that it's not cold fusion?

edit on 11/08/11 by Mary Rose because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:05 PM

I agree that there are electrical properties of biological processes. These come from the same source as the electrical properties found everywhere else in nature. There is a certain type of discharge from the certain biological tissues involved which occurs during the orgasm.

You demagogue the issue to make his ideas look extreme, when they are really quite simple. It is very childish of you, and in the context of the rest of Reich's work(which you obviously aren't familiar with) it is quite amusing.

Distorting the topics you see as ridiculous(because you don't understand them) allows your ego to ignore the blatant lapses of logic inherent in your vested interests. In other words, you are blind to the anomalies that contradict your worldview, which you think is objectively true. Of course, I am sure you think those words apply to me. They would, if I was like you and never questioned my own presuppositions and preconceptions. I can readily accept when an idea is wrong, because I can entertain the ideas without conflating them with my Self. Ideas deserve to be critically assessed in their context, and by logical validity.

I do not defend Reich's conclusions because Reich said so, I defend them from the intellectual graffiti which you engage in. There is a very clear and logical path Reich developed throughout his work - just as there is for Feynman, Schrödinger, Einstein, etc.

Just because Reich didn't survive in the fascist environment (which apparently lingers today because of people like you) doesn't mean he was wrong. Also, just because one thing he said might be wrong, doesn't mean the other 98% of his work should be denounced off-hand. We don't ignore Newton because he believed in God. Or Descartes, or the atomistic foundations from ancient greece, or ALL the rest of the western development of science which you take for granted.

History remembers people like Reich, who have the courage to use their own reason - rather than the reason dictated from the hegemonic hierarchy.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:05 PM
reply to post by Mary Rose

I meant the reference was not to cold fusion, that's all. It was in reference to one of Correa's contraptions. By the way I looked at the pics of his "excellent lab" and it's a dump. Gosh, these oscilloscopes are older than Correa himself!

Another thought: there is not a single experimental paper on their web pages. If they claim there is a conspiracy to silence them, it's beyond specious that they wouldn't publish at least some material as it relates to their "measurements", on their web pages. In fact, publishing these moronic "letters" of support is exactly due to the fact that they don't want to reveal what the experiment really was about, and yet to give it the air of "excellent work", "excellent lab", and never to actually show the methods and results.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:12 PM

Everything they have done has been done with their own money.

They are dedicated researchers.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:24 PM

Originally posted by beebs

You demagogue the issue to make his ideas look extreme, when they are really quite simple. It is very childish of you, and in the context of the rest of Reich's work(which you obviously aren't familiar with) it is quite amusing.

You are dodging the question and that's just pathetic. This is from Kelly's book:

www.orgone.org...

Mating is a principal expression of the superimposition function in living nature; two separate streams of energy flow together and superimpose during the orgasm. The power and depth of feeling in mating reflects the intensity of the orgone energy flow that takes place.

I mean hell, it was Reich who chose the title of his Magnum Opus THE FUNCTION OF THE ORGASM. If the whole thing sounds idiotic, it's not my fault.

I agree that there are electrical properties of biological processes. These come from the same source as the electrical properties found everywhere else in nature. There is a certain type of discharge from the certain biological tissues involved which occurs during the orgasm.

I specifically asked you if you believed that "orgone" was flowing through the metallic plumbing Reich was using in his contraptions. That there are "electrical properties of biological processes" is a separate subject -- of course there are, but it doesn't mean that you can build pipes etc for that "orgone" or whatever.

Electric phenomena are directly measurable. Nothing of that sort i.e. electric measurement was ever shown with respect to any of that orgone junk.

There is a very clear and logical path Reich developed throughout his work - just as there is for Feynman, Schrödinger, Einstein, etc.

We don't ignore Newton because he believed in God.

I judge Newton not by his religion but by his mastery of science which is by the way rooted in cold facts, not some mythical libido substance that can be trapped in a plywood box lined with tin foil. That, my friend, is quite medieval.

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:26 PM

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Was there a demo, or did I miss it? Would be nice to see a self-contained apparatus which does something!
Not much of a demo. One of the investors said "let's see it" and he reached into a box and flipped a switch and some lights came on accompanied by the claim he measured 18 watts in and 50,000 watts out, but it only looked like a few hundred watts of light bulbs lit up to me (6 bulbs at perhaps 60-75 watts or so each?). He didn't show what the input power was in his demo, though from experience I'd guess it was maybe 20% more than the output since he used what looks like a DC to AC inverter which is a somewhat inefficient device, I have a couple of them myself.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa's website is Akronos. I've just discovered it myself. There are three journals listed.
So according to that video, Correa somehow knows Einstein is definitely wrong, and relativity is false, even though they admit Einstein's equations make accurate predictions.

Meanwhile, he admits Correa's theory "isn't perfect" which I interpret to mean makes less accurate predictions than Einstein's theory.

And not only is Correa abused by mainstream science, but he's even abused by those in the free energy and cold fusion fields. Should I break out the world's smallest violin because he doesn't have any admirers? If you're bashing Einstein, and you don't have anything better (and so far everyone I've seen who bashes Einstein has nothing better), what else can you expect?

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Everything they have done has been done with their own money.
They are dedicated researchers.

There are plenty of dedicated hobbyists around that do amazing things with their own money -- build tricked-out cars, go scuba diving or learn Chinese. But they don't make unsubstantiated claims like these two examples from the realm of "pathological science".

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Was there a demo, or did I miss it? Would be nice to see a self-contained apparatus which does something!
Not much of a demo. One of the investors said "let's see it" and he reached into a box and flipped a switch and some lights came on accompanied by the claim he measured 18 watts in and 50,000 watts out

Arb, do you realize how much 50,000W is? It's more than 50HP. If he had a load on this little cart that was dissipating 50kW, it would go "boom" pretty quickly.

Ouch!

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 06:55 PM

I think of 100 Watt incandescent light bulbs for a mental image, so, yeah, 50,000 watts would be 500 of those! He obviously didn't have that many.

If you still have doubts, for a mere \$45,000 you can order a system to test:
www.magnacoaster.com...

Vorktex On Grid System

This is the first of an line of units for On Grid System:

\$ 45,000.00 USD. plus shipping
No need to take yourself off the grid, when for \$45,000 you can stay on the grid and have some solar panels to boot! I don't know if they are actually shipping anything though. They might just be taking orders.

Even if there was no such thing as "time value of money" 45 grand would still cover my electric bills for the next 40 years, so even if it was free energy, it's pretty expensive! I've thought about getting some solar panels, but not at that price!

On second thought, you might want to keep your 45 grand for now. Apparently he never proved it works and didn't get the million dollars:

www.magnacoaster.com...

Did Richard do the deal with Brett ?

The deal was never finalized and discussions are ongoing
In other words, he couldn't prove his claim! Who'd have thunk it?

posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 11:36 PM

I specifically asked you if you believed that "orgone" was flowing through the metallic plumbing Reich was using in his contraptions. That there are "electrical properties of biological processes" is a separate subject -- of course there are, but it doesn't mean that you can build pipes etc for that "orgone" or whatever.

I don't really know how to answer your question any better than what I have already stated, because it just isn't the right question to be asking. I wonder why you don't ask the right questions... could it be lack of familiarity with the source material? The electrical properties of biological processes(specifically the orgasm) is a fundamental of Reich's work.

Orgone is just a word to describe a phenomenon. He made it up. Just because you don't agree with the word, doesn't mean there isn't a phenomenon. Phlogiston isn't a correct concept either, but we don't conclude that fire isn't real. We just have a more precise understanding of the phenomenon now. Similarly, just because Reich thought 'Orgone' couldn't be electromagnetic but was somehow related to it, doesn't mean he was right. That he wasn't right, doesn't mean the phenomenon doesn't exist. The phenomenon could exist, and be explained by electromagnetism.

Schrödinger defined life as "(-)entropy", or the tendency towards organization and away from equilibrium. Should it still be called entropy? Is it negative entropy, or the opposite of entropy? Are there two separate forces, two exclusive phenomena? Could we call (-)entropy 'orgone' instead? If we do, does that automatically mean that it is a separate physical force/phenomenon? Or is it just a name... should we call it 'elan vital', Qi?

No, we would rather put it into our own terms now. But that doesn't mean there isn't a phenomenon of life that tends towards organization and away from equilibrium, or an energetic phenomenon in biological organisms.

It should be noted that contemporary intellectuals from the Wiener Kreis debated hotly the idea of vitalism. Another reason to put Reich into proper context...

ETA:

I judge Newton not by his religion but by his mastery of science which is by the way rooted in cold facts, not some mythical libido substance that can be trapped in a plywood box lined with tin foil. That, my friend, is quite medieval.

You can separate the religion from the science, but that doesn't mean Newton and the rest of those figures that shaped the science you now benefit from made that distinction. Think of the accumulator as a capacitor. He was obviously observing a phenomenon, so put it into your own terms. He wasn't delusional, he spent years doing experiments. It will help you understand his work to put it into your own terms, if you care at all about honest investigation.
edit on 8-11-2011 by beebs because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 03:43 AM
reply to post by Mary Rose

That guy needs to transfer some of his body hair to his head. LOL

posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 04:38 AM

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I'll skip the rest of mumbo-jumbo.

Perhaps because you've never sought answers to such questions?

posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 05:44 AM

Originally posted by beebs
There is a general trend coming from the Wiener Kreis of absolute genius . . .

My online dictionary brings up this for "Wiener Kreis":

Vienna Circle

Interesting!

I like focusing on the philosophy of science. It's looking at the big picture instead of disjoined parts.

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