Originally posted by FoxfilesMulder
However, I still believe if ancient Egyptian people were not in Australia some thousands of years ago, then at the least - some ancient civilization
was at some point.
I think we'd have to decide what was meant by "civilization" but I absolutely agree that there were people in Australia (Lake Mungo area) around
55,000 years ago and that they lived in small groups and settlements. I think that a close look at when and where the climate changed in Australia
may give clues where to look, since humans do need a lot of water.
With the Gympie ape statue found in Australia that we had discussed and the picture you showed me of a verified Thoth relic found in Egypt, I
feel your picture is of the best case scenario when comparing the two.
While true, I should also mention that the "Thoth Ape" is a specific breed of ape. No matter how badly it was depicted, these animals have
faces/heads like dogs and not humans.
The relic you showed could have been made from the countries top craftsman to be given to a Pharaoh and had to be the very best it could
It was actually one of the mass produced amulets from a workshop. They had millions of them (quite literally) -- I own a few little (genuine) Bast
The Gympie ape could have been made by a simple farmer for the purpose of honoring their God in private. The difference between Leonardo da
Vinci and myself painting a picture.
While it COULD have been, it doesn't seem to show any signs of being worked with tools. If you were doing a picture of Jesus (perhaps we can use
this for an example), no matter how bad your skills you wouldn't draw Jesus with the long muzzle of (say) a cow. And if you were going to worship
it, you would make another and better one to serve for your altar -- or you'd make it in a less difficult material (like wood.)
How many years had they been there? Highly unlikely yet possibly 15,000 years perhaps. This along with the other relics found in Australia
would be more than enough to make them look like not much at all.
The trouble with things "dug up" by people is that we don't know what else is found with them. Tying two items together that are found in
different areas requires finding evidence that they were placed at the same time and by the same culture. So, although the Hopperstad stave church
(1140 AD) and temple Wat Phra Borom That in Thailand existed around the same time, you can't make a case for the same culture leaving both of
While on the subject, I thought this picture here looked more like what the Gympie ape relic could have been made to look like.
Link didn't work, darn it.
An interesting quote from an article I read states:
Current Research (as at 30th June 2003) Research to date has been limited to surface visuals by private researchers with a refusal of academia to
participate on political grounds. Officially, the sites do not exist. (snip) .... The researchers fight guerrilla warfare against established dogmas
and political censorship with no funding and laws that prohibit private excavation, removal of artifacts and investigation of wrecks.
The site promises lots but falls short in delivering proof (and really gets on my nerves when I see the "Egyptian translation" of his name. It's
really, really, really incorrect.) Some of the pages there are truly interesting (like the "cattle marks"... but in spite of them saying it's a
language and writing, they fail to establish this. But it's aroused my curiosity and I *truly* want to learn more about this practice!) A number of
pages are apparently made up information (in spite of saying that they are using archaeological evidence, the "Phoenician creation" page has no real
link to the real Phoenician theology or beliefs.
Given the flaws there (I touched on only a few) it doesn't seem to be a reliable source. And yes, I can see why the aborigines don't want him
wandering around their sacred places and digging up stuff and yelling at them (with their thousands of years of traditions), "See? You are all wrong
about yourselves and your history! You're Phoenicians!"
Ancient Queensland mine could change world history. The discovery of a 3,000 year old mine and harbour on the coast of central Queensland is set to
change Australian, if not world history. “Resident Val Osborn has traced the remaining structures to the early mining endeavours of the
Phoenicians around 1000 BC. “Mr Osborn, who has been closely guarding his discovery for four years, says the area’s rich mineral deposits
attracted the Phoenicians to the northern Australian coast more than 2,700 years before Captain Cook. “Mr Osborn says the discovery at
Freshwater Point, near the big coal ports south of Mackay, has attracted world scientific attention.
Actually, it hasn't attracted worldwide attention. It got the attention of Gilroy (who is promoting the "ancient Egyptians in Australia" idea.)
At that point I was ready to say "bogus!" but I gave it a fair shot. The points against it, as I see them are:
* it's "local resident." What studies has he done so that he can easily tell a Phoenician artifact from any other artifact on the planet?
* Gilroy is involved. My opinion of Gilroy and his identification of "artifacts" is poor -- so we can count this as "personal bias."
* the page says that “It includes huge sea walls designed to allow exporting by sea. “’They were labour intensive, huge, the one at Sarina
is some 800 metres long,’ he said. This would be visible on Google Earth (which I have) and I went to check it out. When I zoom in, I don't see
any unexplained things that are 800 meters long. Historical imagery of the area (which goes back to 2002) doesn't show any 800 meter structures. So
where ARE these huge sea walls? They should stand out like a sore thumb on Google Earth. I see fence rows, dirt tracks, roads. A (real)
archaeologist on a radio program says the "sea walls" are natural stone ridges and that there are ancient aboriginal fish traps there that
shouldn't be disturbed: www.abc.net.au...
* I don't see any artifacts from this site or any photos (maybe you can find some?) that prove these things exist.
* Claim: “We’ve got also a Phoenician bell temple and it’s typical and we’ve also got a cemetery and we’ll have to wait and see the
archaeologist." As far as I can tell, there's no such structure as a "Phoenician bell temple" known to archaeology. In googling for images of
Phoenician temples, they appear to all be flat roofed.
* It is reported that Mr Osborn discovered the site, including the jetty, while fishing. (which means I should have been able to see it on Google
* "He (Osborn) believes he has discovered ancient artefacts, inscriptions and ruins dating to about 1000 BC." Again, I'd like to know how he
dated the artifacts and inscriptions. I would dearly love to see some inscriptions. As far as I can tell, he may have an interest in this but I am
skeptical that he could date artifacts. I'm basing this (weak "argument from experience" point here) on my own trying to learn rock art styles and
Native American arrowhead point differences.
If you are interested further on the above topic I'll leave a URL related to the article on the above subject I found most interesting.
Thank you! I love text sites (truly!) and I did look up some of the claims. I went out and found copies of Josephus' history on the web... here's
the book which talks about Solomon ("The Antiquities of the Jews") :
Here's what Josephus says
4. Moreover, the king built many ships in the Egyptian Bay of the Red Sea, in a certain place called Ezion-geber: it is now called Berenice, and
is not far from the city Eloth. This country belonged formerly to the Jews, and became useful for shipping from the donations of Hiram king of Tyre;
for he sent a sufficient number of men thither for pilots, and such as were skillful in navigation, to whom Solomon gave this command: That they
should go along with his own stewards to the land that was of old called Ophir, but now the Aurea Chersonesus, which belongs to India, to fetch him
It's available as a free Project Gutenberg book here:
I tried like the dickens to read the original text (it's Greek)... I can find 'Egyptian' and 'Solomon' but eventually gave up trying to find
"Ophir" and "Aurea Chersonesus"... I suppose I'll have to learn Greek letters. In either case, I think I'd agree that "India" (with which
they had regular trade) is meant.
However, if you'd like to try it for yourself (I always ecourage it)
is the original Greek. I used a Bible concordance to
check some of the Greek words (www.blueletterbible.org...
) (in other words, look up words in the New Testament (Greek) that would be "gold" or
"Egypt", etc.) but finding that sentence will take a lot more time than I have today.
In any case, I didn't find a compelling case for that website saying that India was really Australia. India was a known (and named) place at that
time and since Australia wasn't part of the Indian empire, they would not have mistaken it for India.
At least, that's my reasoning.
Whuf! Brain hurt after all that Greek. Time to go do some naturalist (bird watching) stuff.