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Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
You realize everything you toss onto Jones's shoulders could be just as easily be said about a number of ATS members, right? I mean, you can spend your time here tapping into exactly the same theories and minsets as you pin on Jones, conversing with people who agree with him and tout his ideas. So keep in mind ATS could be accused using exactly the same argument you give against Jones. I contend it isn't true for ATS, and it isn't true for Jones, either.
In reality, neither Jones nor ATS can be blamed. Nor can any political ideology, or the books he read, or any other form of media he consumed. You simply can't blame content -- any content -- for something like this. The guy is mentally disturbed and if you really want to blame anything other than Loughner himself, you are going to have to blame Loughner's crossed wiring, sizzling synapses, and and misfiring neurotransmitters.
edit on 1/15/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by gandalph
Anyone else find it rather interesting that Loughner's lawyer is Judy Clarke?
She defended, in part:
- Islamic terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui,
- the "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski,
- Timothy McVeigh
There are beliefs that all these individuals were framed or groomed (in the case of Ted Kaczynski, where his brother recently said in an interview that he believes Ted was a subject of MKULTRA).
What does Loughner have to do with the above three?
Think about it.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by sbctinfantry
"I lost my freedom of speech to that guy!"
Seriously though. He is crazy in a new way? Most people are paranoid of real concerns that they magnify to unreasonable levels. I don't even know what he is talking about.edit on 15-1-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by nwdogg1982
How exactly is this video supposed to have raised any red flags?
Originally posted by sbctinfantry
No one is proclaiming his guilt, just pointing out that this is one more reason to have never sold him a weapon in the first place.
This is just part of the puzzle, and if you look at each piece individually it is easy to say that it "wasn't a red flag" or enough to take action.
The problem with that theory is, there were many examples of this erratic and crazy behavior. His youtube videos were arguably farther off the deep end, his writings mirrored his videos, his internet posts were equal to both. Also take into account that many of his peers and teachers reported him to the authorities and schools he attended. There was no sense of flying under the radar. Almost every person he came across was disturbed, and a large enough percentage reported him to be looked at by the sheriff, and even kicked out of the same school you see him videotaping. They were specifically concerned with him committing mass murder with a gun.
If you take everything in at once, you really have to ask why something was not done.
I'm not saying that he didn't slip through the cracks, but rather why do we need more laws when the ones we have were sufficient, if not followed properly?
Originally posted by Evanescence
What do you want us, as a society, to do about it?
Should we lock him up for some semblance of thoughtcrime the rest of his life so something like that doesn't happen?
Should we force an adult, against their will, into a mental health center that might, upon leaving, affect future employment prospects?
Just because someone seems "weird" from a lot of different angles (something that adequately describes many people here very likely) doesn't justify locking that person up. Even if people were concerned about a mass shooting, he hasn't done or planned anything yet, so why pin thoughtcrime on him? That would be double plus ungood.
We need to focus more on remediation and prevention than anything else in this country. We, as a nation, do not tolerate and treat people different from the mainstream very well.
Originally posted by tooo many pills
It would have been great if he was stopped because of his history and red flags, but nobody had any idea he was going to do what he did until he did it. Do you really want the Gov. to start arresting people because of what they think people COULD do before they even do it? It is like that move 'Minority Report' where they look into the future then arrest people before they commit the crime they were going to do. If he had stated his plan then by all means arrest him, but they really didn't know how crazy he was until he carried out his evil acts.edit on 14-1-2011 by tooo many pills because: (no reason given)