Loughner video with 'genocide' and 'torture' ramblings is released

Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

You realize everything you toss onto Jones's shoulders could be just as easily be said about a number of ATS members, right? I mean, you can spend your time here tapping into exactly the same theories and minsets as you pin on Jones, conversing with people who agree with him and tout his ideas. So keep in mind ATS could be accused using exactly the same argument you give against Jones. I contend it isn't true for ATS, and it isn't true for Jones, either.

In reality, neither Jones nor ATS can be blamed. Nor can any political ideology, or the books he read, or any other form of media he consumed. You simply can't blame content -- any content -- for something like this. The guy is mentally disturbed and if you really want to blame anything other than Loughner himself, you are going to have to blame Loughner's crossed wiring, sizzling synapses, and and misfiring neurotransmitters.

edit on 1/15/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)

I completely agree.

A number of members here tout similar ideas and believe similar conspiracy theories that Jared believed, but guess what? None will likely carry out such acts. It takes a certain combination of events and mental issues to reach that point and to carry out those acts.

Given how few mass shootings we have in a country with relatively lenient gun laws and over 300 million people, I'd say we're doing pretty well.

What I find most ironic about the whole situation though is that Jared killed out of sheer lunacy. The guy goes around acting like a nutcase, goes to this lady's rally and asks her a ridiculous question, he believes in countless conspiracy theories that so many discount so readily, and to top it off he can't even type coherently or use rhetoric appropriately despite his "fascination" with "grammar."

Honestly, one big failure who will now spend the rest of his life in jail. Such an ignorant, uninformed, and downright stupid individual. To think that he was one of the ones who "got it" when he was really one of the dumb dregs of society is the second greatest tragedy of it all. The first being the obvious loss of lives.

reply to post by Mr Mask


Good points.

I guess what he says and does could easily be ignored by anyone who wasn't really paying close attention. Thanks for the reminder that hindsight is 20-20.

Originally posted by gandalph
Anyone else find it rather interesting that Loughner's lawyer is Judy Clarke?

She defended, in part:
- Islamic terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui,
- the "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski,
- Timothy McVeigh

There are beliefs that all these individuals were framed or groomed (in the case of Ted Kaczynski, where his brother recently said in an interview that he believes Ted was a subject of MKULTRA).

What does Loughner have to do with the above three?

Think about it.

Well some people will go to ANY length to get publicity, and this is ALL
this women is doing imo.
Sure he deserves a fair trial and know doubt he will get one (yeah really?)

I dont have any doubt really about him being guilty but i think the jury will
of all ready made there mind up even though they wont have been picked yet.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


"I lost my freedom of speech to that guy!"
LOL

Seriously though. He is crazy in a new way? Most people are paranoid of real concerns that they magnify to unreasonable levels. I don't even know what he is talking about.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

"I lost my freedom of speech to that guy!"
LOL

Seriously though. He is crazy in a new way? Most people are paranoid of real concerns that they magnify to unreasonable levels. I don't even know what he is talking about.

edit on 15-1-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

It would probably be best to research what medications he was on during his 22 years then avoid prescribing those medications in combination or all together.

And if you're like AJ or William Cooper who called 9/11 months in advance... How it happens and the main scapegoat to blame, I'd certainly lay off most my criticism of those two people.

Is getting a 'B' grade a bad thing in America?

I'd be quite proud of getting a 'B' Grade

reply to post by skitzspiricy


I guess he figured he knows the constitution and freedom and grammar so well he thought he deserved an A. I mean he rambled about those things constantly and was crazy.

Originally posted by nwdogg1982
How exactly is this video supposed to have raised any red flags?

I have to agree with you. It's easy with 20/20 hindsight to say that they should have been able to tell this guy was trouble, but if we gather up everyone who spouts something about genocide or the government being controlling, then at least 3/4 of us ATS members would be retained.

I saw NOTHING in this video that would indicate that this guy was dangerous. Off-kilter? A loose screw? An order of fries short of a happy meal? Absolutely! But nothing I saw would make me think he was going to go on a shooting spree.

Just watched it and I don't think you could say, "ZOMG this guy is a stone cold crazy killer!" Yeah, you could easily say he is a damn weird fella, but it would be a stretch to go further.

Also, with the number of odd topics popping up about this guy I feel compelled to say:

1. That wasn't him in the video

2. If it was, he was clearly being mind controlled

3. Remember, he is innocent until proven guilty

No one is proclaiming his guilt, just pointing out that this is one more reason to have never sold him a weapon in the first place.

This is just part of the puzzle, and if you look at each piece individually it is easy to say that it "wasn't a red flag" or enough to take action.

The problem with that theory is, there were many examples of this erratic and crazy behavior. His youtube videos were arguably farther off the deep end, his writings mirrored his videos, his internet posts were equal to both. Also take into account that many of his peers and teachers reported him to the authorities and schools he attended. There was no sense of flying under the radar. Almost every person he came across was disturbed, and a large enough percentage reported him to be looked at by the sheriff, and even kicked out of the same school you see him videotaping. They were specifically concerned with him committing mass murder with a gun.

If you take everything in at once, you really have to ask why something was not done.

I'm not saying that he didn't slip through the cracks, but rather why do we need more laws when the ones we have were sufficient, if not followed properly?

Originally posted by sbctinfantry
No one is proclaiming his guilt, just pointing out that this is one more reason to have never sold him a weapon in the first place.

This is just part of the puzzle, and if you look at each piece individually it is easy to say that it "wasn't a red flag" or enough to take action.

The problem with that theory is, there were many examples of this erratic and crazy behavior. His youtube videos were arguably farther off the deep end, his writings mirrored his videos, his internet posts were equal to both. Also take into account that many of his peers and teachers reported him to the authorities and schools he attended. There was no sense of flying under the radar. Almost every person he came across was disturbed, and a large enough percentage reported him to be looked at by the sheriff, and even kicked out of the same school you see him videotaping. They were specifically concerned with him committing mass murder with a gun.

If you take everything in at once, you really have to ask why something was not done.

I'm not saying that he didn't slip through the cracks, but rather why do we need more laws when the ones we have were sufficient, if not followed properly?

What do you want us, as a society, to do about it?

Should we lock him up for some semblance of thoughtcrime the rest of his life so something like that doesn't happen?

Should we force an adult, against their will, into a mental health center that might, upon leaving, affect future employment prospects?

Just because someone seems "weird" from a lot of different angles (something that adequately describes many people here very likely) doesn't justify locking that person up. Even if people were concerned about a mass shooting, he hasn't done or planned anything yet, so why pin thoughtcrime on him? That would be double plus ungood.

We need to focus more on remediation and prevention than anything else in this country. We, as a nation, do not tolerate and treat people different from the mainstream very well.

Originally posted by Evanescence
What do you want us, as a society, to do about it?

Should we lock him up for some semblance of thoughtcrime the rest of his life so something like that doesn't happen?

Should we force an adult, against their will, into a mental health center that might, upon leaving, affect future employment prospects?

Just because someone seems "weird" from a lot of different angles (something that adequately describes many people here very likely) doesn't justify locking that person up. Even if people were concerned about a mass shooting, he hasn't done or planned anything yet, so why pin thoughtcrime on him? That would be double plus ungood.

We need to focus more on remediation and prevention than anything else in this country. We, as a nation, do not tolerate and treat people different from the mainstream very well.

The Sheriff should certainly be taken out of his position and replaced. There should be no new laws implemented, as the ones currently on the books are more than sufficient. I reference one of my other threads noting that only ten Congressmen/women have died at the hands of another human being in all of our nations history. Most of those deaths were due to deuls. I state that much, because this is a rare occurrence, from a complete nutcase, and the majority of the ATS community is screaming MK Ultra or asking for new laws against rhetoric when the laws to stop this guy are already there within reason.

The bottom line is, it should have been stopped and wasn't. You can't fix what has happened by creating new laws. You can't blame politicians for being politicians. They say what they say because it is what gets them votes. It is their job to get votes. Sarah Palin is no more guilty than any one of us. I'm not a defender of the Tea Party as I think it is filled with shills and hacks, but how is this their fault? If it is their fault, then it is Democrats fault, then it is our fault for voting for each and every one of them. For funding their campaigns. For allowing the rhetoric when it was first uttered.

Really, this whole business is just insanity lately. It seems if you have a different view of things in this forum, you may as well have shot the Congresswoman yourself, judging by how you are treated!

Originally posted by tooo many pills
It would have been great if he was stopped because of his history and red flags, but nobody had any idea he was going to do what he did until he did it. Do you really want the Gov. to start arresting people because of what they think people COULD do before they even do it? It is like that move 'Minority Report' where they look into the future then arrest people before they commit the crime they were going to do. If he had stated his plan then by all means arrest him, but they really didn't know how crazy he was until he carried out his evil acts.

edit on 14-1-2011 by tooo many pills because: (no reason given)

You don't arrest people. When people start acting crazy they need to be evaluated and monitored. If need be, put on medication.

We should not have to wait till they injure themselves or others before action can be taken.

...re: this video... i didnt hear anything definitive of a mental illness... i heard a goofy young man who was very amused by his own words... i've seen 1000 times worse on youtube...