It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Idea of Jesus was Created by the Devil

page: 1
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:01 PM
link   
As this is my first post, I apoligize for any inequities in my writing ability. I am not a prolific writer. As to the content: it is not necessarily my belief this is true merely exploring the possiblity.

First; I am NOT a bible scholar nor am I trying to be. Second; to all the bible fanatics out there please don’t preach to me as I am not trying to convince anyone that Jesus or God does/does not exist. I believe there is a creator/God just not the way most religions say. I am trying to find reconciliation and discussion between what I perceive as a conundrum between the Old and New Testament.

As I was raised Catholic, (from what I remember) great emphasis was placed on the Ten Commandments early on. The one in particular that has always nagged at me was the one about putting no one before Him.

EXODUS 20: 3-6
3 .) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 .) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 .) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 .) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The majority of the New Testament is about Jesus, his life, deeds and teachings. I won’t bother posting the numerous verses on Jesus.

If we are to believe the Bible was inspired by God, how could there possibly be a New Testament as it is written. In the second book of the Old Testament God admits He is a jealous God and there should be no one before him yet according to Christianity the only way to God is through the Son, which sounds to me like someone before God. Again, I am no bible scholar, but God sound quite clear on the matter. Nor am I fluent enough to see where before this commandment he specifically announces his coming son or that he even has a son. And any predictions after this commandment would be contradictory the commandments. And as God is said to be infallible there inlays the conundrum.

I have tried to come up with plausible and logical reasons to explain this and have even asked people with degrees in theology but none gave sufficient answers just quoting New Testament verses on Jesus not where God rescinds his commandment. I was able to come up with some out of the box/bible theories.

Well here comes the conspiracy part.

I took the God vs. Devil approach and thought in what ways could the Devil usurp God? He could try and corrupt each person individually but that would take forever or at least until Armageddon. But there might be an easier way if he could get man away from God through mass deception. Getting man to break the commandments like murder and adultery are probably easy enough one person at a time but get a person to break the false god one would be more challenging person to person for how do you get some to knowingly worship someone else with out there knowledge. However if you could get man to believe God had a son create a whole new theology that ties in with and correlates with the old beliefs. He could get man to break a commandment without man being the wiser. Simply put, the Devil created the idea of Jesus to get man to break one of God’s commandments.

And what of all the statues of angels, depictions of God (Sistine Chapel), and Christ himself (and for those who say he was on earth he isn’t any more) for God said not to make any likeness of any thing in heaven and surely Jesus is in heaven, there are numerous references to him ascending and sitting at the right hand of the father in the New Testament.

The revelation of this conspiracy/theory were readings and documentaries on other religions such as the Greek, Roman (pre- Roman Catholic), and Egyptian gods. About how when things didn’t quite go so well they would just start praying to a different god for whatever their current lament was. Even the creation of new gods was not unheard of. Could this also been the reason behind the birth of Jesus, because God was slipping so to speak or was Jesus just a new way for government to rein people back in. Give the people someone they can relate to but also a divine aspect. The government can say Jesus (or pick your deity) says it has to be this way or you’re going to burn in hell/underworld. This approach has been used over and over by all walks of life. I equate it to a middle manager blaming his boss for some rule or policy being enforced on the underlings or, parents telling their children ‘I had to do it so do you’.

edit on 14-1-2011 by illuminateme because: Spacing




posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:08 PM
link   
reply to post by illuminateme
 


Anything is possible and I would recommend exploring all possibilities. Regarding the premise a good rule of thumb can actually be found in something that Jesus himself said... You shall know the nature of the tree by the fruit that it bares (sp?).



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:26 PM
link   
Its an interesting idea, but I think the reason that this isn't a contradiction is because Jesus is God, just in a different form. That's where the trinity comes in.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:33 PM
link   
I can see it. After all, what could be more cruel than creating an image or a notion that there is some kind of salvation from this torment of life, and that it's available to anyone for just being nice? Then when they land in Hell, it will be all the worse.

Nice work, Devil.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:43 PM
link   
An interesting theory, and I believe you are right in a manner. The devil has worked to confound the deity of Jesus through creating many savior myths based on how he understood the Messiah would come through his imperfect understanding of the old testament before the arrival of Jesus on this earth. If you truly read the old testament you can see it points directly at Jesus, all the prophecy and all the lineage from Adam and Eve onwards leads to Jesus. There is no disconnect between the two, the old points to the new and both point to Christ. The other thrust of your idea holds truth also, God is jealous and commands no Gods before me but Jesus is God, he is simply another expression of God but fully God. It is an imperfect example but to aid in understanding just as I am a Father, Son and Husband,.. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps a bit.

Peace

p.s. Your idea about the images of Christ being used, particularly in the Roman Catholic church, and issues of worshipping images I believe has merit. I doubt highly that Christ looked as he is portrayed, firstly a hardworking lifer carpenter would not be a rail thin waif of a man, quite the opposite in fact. Depending how much you believe the RC church as the church of God or the church of the up and coming anti-christ,it is quite possible the anti-christ will come looking exactly like Christ does in his many catholic depictions.
edit on 14-1-2011 by slane69 because: postscript needed to be added



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:50 PM
link   
Wait wait wait.

I am not gonna disagree with the theory itself, but I will place doubt on the methodology employed to arrive at this theory.

How can you discard one aspect of the Bible (the Jesus parts), while still keeping other parts (the Devil parts)?

Wouldn't it just be more simple and accurate to just say "The Devil wrote the Entire Bible"?

Simplification >



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:53 PM
link   
and maybe God was smart enough to be
vague in the scriptures so that the 2nd coming
of Jesus could not be preempted by Satan.
If u don't think Satan knows the scriptures
better than you, you are sadly mistaken.
he exploits them at every opportunity.

edit on 1/14/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:59 PM
link   
reply to post by illuminateme
 


I recommend that you read Answer to Job by Jung. It will shed some light on all this for you.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:05 PM
link   
Interesting idea. The issue is the Trinity, which was the result of Roman (Constantinople) influence over the Council of Nicea, hence the Nicene Creed. It affected the duality of Christ as ascribed by Orthodox Christians (the original ones). Most "Christian" religions are neo-Orthodox and give Christ God like powers by virtue of the Trinity. So, it wasn't the Devil...it was the Romans.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:11 PM
link   
But how can God who was the beginning and the end also be a son and if God is all powerfull why does he need a son in the first place. What he can't do whatever he wants with mere thought as nothing is out of his reach.
edit on 14-1-2011 by illuminateme because: Add to post



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:12 PM
link   
reply to post by illuminateme
 


In my opinion, this has got to be the most misunderstood verse in the entire Old Testament-

.) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth


Taken literally, wouldn't this mean that photographs of everything would be forbidden? Wouldn't this mean that printed silkscreens on shirts of anything, birds, fish et al... would be forbidden?

Also, if taken literally doesn't God Almighty Himself contradict Himself later on by having Moses and Aaron carve very intricate Cherabim to put on top of the Ark of the Covenant?

Doesn't He also contradict Himself as well by having the Seraph made to heal the Israelites by having them kneel before it after they have been bitten by the vipers?

God does not contradict Himself or make mistakes. Man does in interpreting His words.
edit on 14-1-2011 by thegoodearth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:19 PM
link   
I believe the lineage is used to justify or lend credance to the story. If the Adam and Eve story is true then we all are descendants. I don't know about everyone else but I have tried to walk on water and I sink like a rock.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:24 PM
link   
reply to post by illuminateme
 


You are thinking about this in a human sense, my friend...
God Himself came to Earth in the form of Jesus Christ.
It's the same God as the God in the "Old Testament".
It's God Almighty. God the Father and God the Son are the same God.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:25 PM
link   

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


People still don't get that it was Jesus who spoke these words before revealing himself in the flesh.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by illuminateme
But how can God who was the beginning and the end also be a son and if God is all powerfull why does he need a son in the first place. What he can't do whatever he wants with mere thought as nothing is out of his reach.
edit on 14-1-2011 by illuminateme because: Add to post


Exactly,.. nothing is out of His reach,.. including coming to earth fully man and fully God. He doesn't need a Son, we do, we needed Jesus otherwise all would be lost. Yes he can do anything he wants but he doesn't want robotic followers he wants us to have choice and be willing followers. He is doing what He wants for the long term end result not for guaranteed short term gains at the expense of the long term plan. His approach will never make complete sense to us, if we understood it all we would be God.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:34 PM
link   
reply to post by illuminateme
 


He came to pay a debt He didn't owe,
because we owed a debt we couldn't pay.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:39 PM
link   
Then why does Jesus refer to God as a seperate entity. From what I have read and listened to in church he never says he himself will provide salvation or any other act but God the Father will. As for the trinity being three in one why does Jesus sit at the right hand of God. Does the Spirit float to the left?
edit on 14-1-2011 by illuminateme because: Brain moves faster than fingers.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:47 PM
link   
reply to post by illuminateme
 


I believe that things are written in a manner for us to be able to comprehend
in our human capacity to be able to comprehend,
as it is able.
I don't think any of us will be able to fully comprehend the mystery of the Trinity until we die.
Because we are such a civilization of people, much like the Israelites of old,
who are very suspicious and "put our God to the test" constantly,
I wouldn't doubt if the end is near at hand.
We obviously aren't too many who are "Blessed are they who do not see but believe",
now are we?



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 07:48 PM
link   
reply to post by Student X
 


I just glance over a summary of this, I will definately delve deeper into this as it is interesing.

Thanks Student



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 08:00 PM
link   
reply to post by thegoodearth
 


If they are one in the same then why all the references of Jesus praying to God, and the 40 days in the desert asking why it has to be this way does he have multiple personalities, or just talked to himself for that long. Today he would be locked up ina psych ward.

I am a human trying to understand whay can't God be God. I think maybe man tried to humanize God to feel closer to Him or the devil created to Jesus to divide man from God.

The Old testament God is fairly direct, but in the New testament it is more like justifiing Jesus is who he claims to be and acting on behalf of God.




top topics



 
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join