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Titanic Intelligence Failure

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posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 08:23 PM
The CIA, FBI and Military intelligence are virtually useless.

Get all the corporate types off their asses out of their offices and go actually collect intelligence.

We need a fraction of current intelligence analyzers, we need massively more people on the ground in foreign countries. Either get people who speak other languages or make contacts with people who are there. People who can give you an indication of what is on the minds of the people there.

All I hear them talk about at CIA and FBI is: "We need to restructure our bureaucracy, get the FBI and CIA communicating. Communication would help a small amount. What you ABSOLUTELY NEED is more people actually gathering information. These guys are re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic instead of having people out there looking for icebergs. Intelligence community, lose the corporate clone mentalities and get your ear to the ground. CIA was making assesments from information that was several years old because there was an intelligence vacuum. Anyone in charge doesn't what to hear HISTORY, they want and NEED information on what is happening NOW. Military intelligence, who I might add gets 4/5 ths of total intelligence budget, doesn't get it either. They are busy firing staff people who speak foreign lanuages, because they are gay or something, instead of realizing their mission is not to promote or follow an ideological position, it is to protect and defend this nation, effectively, passionately, and if necessary ruthlessly.


posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 08:30 PM
Don't believe everything you read.

posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 08:47 PM
There are not enough "collection agents", on the ground where intel is most needed. This is evident daily, and is seen repeatedly on the television.

In my opinion, the problem is the same as it always has been, too many "old horses" still in office. Doing everything their way, and not giving a thought to anything contrary to their beliefs. If you don't believe me, go ahead and contact those in charge with your thoughts, then you'll see.

To get down to it, too much is going into the "technology budget", and all that tech and toys hasn't gotten anyone better intel, than the "hands on" of the cold war.

Sure it looks good on paper, but how about the real world aspect of it all?

Less desk jockeys, more operations.

[edit on 9-7-2004 by ADVISOR]

posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 09:17 PM
If the true state of our intelligence capabilities were exactly as is publicly claimed, then the very fact of that knowledge being public would be far worse than any shortcoming I have ever seen published.

The real state of our functional intelligence capability is more robust than ever, and part of maintaining superiority in that arena is ensuring that the perceptions of our enemies are wrong.

In the land of wind and ghosts, the truth is never straightforward, and that is my point.

Not only are there many layers to an onion, but there are many onions.

posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 09:49 PM
The POINT of having intelligence is to use it to make crucial decisions, If going to war is NOT a crucial decison what is? When I put tires on my truck, what concerns me is rubber hitting the road. Chrome hubcaps are useless for practical purposes. I don't need to be paying taxes for some intelligence i cant or don't use.

Clandestined organizations within the goverment may exist, but honestly are more likely bull#. Bull# used to line someone's pocket and not produce any practical results.

What use is all the 'spooky' unknown portions of the intelligence community (if they exist). It sounds like rotten onion. When I find that i cut that part away and use the part that is useful. And if there are lots of totally rotten onions they need to be thrown away. If they aren't they just act as tax-dollar leaches. If you believe there are some dark clandestined organizations or secret aliens or whatever the best way to contend with them is to raise the known intelligence bar, spurring all the above board competitors to compete in a more sophisticated arena. It works as an intelligence arms race. Most likely overwhelming any secret organizations. If the idea is that you can 'corner the market' on intelligence I don't even think that is possible. You ever heard of Hunt and his attempt to corner the market on silver? Some other people made money and he lost his ass, financially. If there are no secret organizations then we will be better able to deal with one when we meet it.

Intelligence, use it or lose it.

posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 12:04 AM
Your assumption seems to be that the leadership of the United States is not making the decisions it wishes to make. I contend that it is making precisely the decisions it wishes to make, public self-flagellation notwithstanding. That appears to be where we differ in perspective.

In war, it is best not to announce one's strategy in press conferences. One of the most basic rules of intelligence is not letting the enemy know how much you really know. The idea that the true condition of U.S. intelligence is actually being publicly discussed is absurd on its face, yet many otherwise shrewd individuals believe that this is in fact taking place. It is not. The discussion being plastered throughout the world press is founded firmly on deliberate disinformation.

Most "shadowy agencies" bandied around on conspiracy sites such as this one are fictitious, but many do exist nonetheless, and they take their work very seriously. U.S. capabilities, sources and methods are better than any ever seen in human history, and continue to improve exponentially over time.

For those who may protest against the "undemocratic" nature of such agencies, it's worth remembering that from the very beginning of the founding of our nation, military and political intelligence have never been considered subject to public oversight. The very concept of representative government itself relies upon elected officials, not the public, to make decisions of law and policy. We do NOT have a "right to know" everything.

If you can see past the public disinformation, your concern will not be that our intelligence agencies are incompetent, but rather, perhaps too effective. My handle "Majic" honors one of the most complex and successful disinformation campaigns ever executed: MAJESTYTWELVE. To this day, it leaves many fine people wondering, because it is a brilliant blend of fact and fiction that most of its participants believed was real.

As the President has said, this is a new kind of war. It is being fought on all possible fronts, including the minds of every human being on the planet. What may not be so obvious is that this new kind of war has been ongoing for a very long time, the stakes are much higher than have been stated, and the battle lines are not nearly as obvious as one might be led to believe.

In the intelligence theater of operations, the U.S. has established absolute supremacy, but it is not without very capable competition and adversaries. Essential to maintaining that supremacy has been the careful management of disinformation of unprecedented scope and subtlety. So ingenious are our methods that I could openly state the absolute truth about them, and it would be almost universally rejected.

Of course, I am not in a position to know or be able to do that, or I would obviously not be posting here.

The only thing you can be sure of is that you can never really be sure of anything.

posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Majic
The only thing you can be sure of is that you can never really be sure of anything.

Sounds a lot like how propaganda theoretically works.

Does anyone remember on TV the "Presidential announcement", about a
"misinformation agency" or something along those lines? Then shortly after, within a week or two it was announced that the group was no longer in place. I remember watching this, I'm more than confident "that" has something to due with all the propaganda being spread around.

Also since we are on the subject of "intelligence matters", anyone watch ABCs Nightline to night?

They said the CIA was broke.

That don't make sence to me, and sounds like lies, i.e. "disinformation".

In a 6 year period, I know of the CIA haveing recieved $205 million, thats about $84 million a year. That's just the funding I'm aware of, and with that much money they shouldn't be broken. They should be in tip top shape.

We have too many chiefs and not enough indians. That is what the problem is.

posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 12:31 AM
The irony of this subject is that the truth is much, much stranger than fiction.

posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 04:25 AM
majic do i know you from some used car lot?

in casE of erROr Make usE of MaLLEt To break glass

posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 05:06 PM
I'm sorry, but I can neither confirm nor deny that I have any association with any used car lots.

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