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750 African Greys die ... pre January 1st mass bird deaths

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posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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Ok, this is not quite new news, it happened on the 24th of December 2010, which is also the reason I am posting this, as it pre-dates the January 1st mass bird deaths, but the news article was only released yesterday, being the 13th of Jan.

What's also interesting about this case, is that it also, if related, cancels out the the theory of them flying into something, whilst in flight, as well as the theories that it was because of the magnetic forces that are wacked and other out-of-the-box theories. What's scary is that it supports the theory of poison or toxic gasses. Not that I am personally against the out-of-the-box theories, I believe:



There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hamlet Act 1, scene 5,
Shakespear


The reason I recon the toxic poison gasses theory is scary, is because if it's affecting birds and fish, then it's only a matter of time before it starts to affect other living things. If this is the case then we need to desperately find out what it is, how it got out and how to stop it. If there are those higher up, that know the answers to those questions, then we need to ask ourselves, why are they not coming forward? If someone generally doesn't come forward with information of this sort, doesn't it indicate that they have something to hide? Doesn't it make them directly responsible, if by keeping quiet, they are insuring more deaths. That is if they are not the ones releasing alleged gasses in the first place? Lots of 'if's' I know, just trying to cover all the angles here.

I've been wracking my brain to try and fathom, what exactly do fish and birds have in common, that this could only affect them, at this point in time, that we know of anyway. You could say, the birds eat the fish, but the African Greys did not come from any of the areas that the mass fish deaths occurred. As far as I know, this is the first and only case, for this part of the world, plus they've been under quarantine for the weeks prior to their deaths. The thing that the birds and the fish have in common, is water.

But this water contamination is very random and far in-between ... except in the states. So how does contaminated water in the states, then reach the other end of Brazil, as well as cross the ocean not affecting anything in it's path until it reaches it's destination in Italy, the U.K., Australia, New Zea-land Thailand and Japan, amongst other places? Unless it was done on purpose.

In the article, the only place where I'm a little confused, is here:




"According to The Witness she ruled out that the birds might have died from carbon dioxide inhalation, as the birds were traveling in a hold with an oxygen supply."


It seems she's contradicting herself there. Also, not knowing much about the workings of "oxygen supply", but doesn't that cancel out the poison gasses?

Further more, what's got me confused about the poison gasses theory, is this: Are the bird deaths, and fish deaths in close enough proximity to each other for it to be a realistic correlation for the birds to have eaten them? As the poison gasses seem to have been released in specific areas of the globe. Is it possible for some behind the scenes PTB to have done this globally? As I don't see different countries' scientists or biologists or even maybe governments deciding to do this all at the same time and the reason for such a move. And why are most of the cases conglomerated in the States?

If you are not sure about this, maybe this will help:

Mass Animal Deaths google maps

I know this map was posted on here before, I honestly can not remember the thread that I got it from, so credits to the person who first posted this google maps image.

Ok, so where as before, when I found this article about the parrots, I was relieved to have found some sort of explanation for the deaths, now I am no longer so sure. Doesn't it seem too random? And nothing fits, not properly anyway, neither does the talk about this being a natural, regular occurrence, sorry that just does not fly. If that was true, we would have heard about it before. It just does not sit right.

So now, I still don't have any answers, but I thought I'd put this up here for you all know, maybe somebody else can come up with another angle, I firmly believe the more minds working on a problem together, the better the chances of finding answers and solutions.. Here is the full article for you to form your own conclusions on:

750 African Greys die on Durban flight

Then of course from a whole different angle, that this is really of what is being spoken about in Revelations... the blood moon ... the fish ... the birds ... the earthquakes and volcano eruptions and more ... and then, the angel on the high-way. But that's all for another thread.

Your thoughts are welcome.




posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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My thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Scroll down until you find 'Dream 2' and then read the description. It's one of the dreams my fiancée had before the incident occurred. You can read the rest if you want. I've personally seen fulfillment of her dreams and predictions, so this one might be correct as well.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Fenix777
 


A little bit off topic, but not by much. Does this song by REM
keep popping up in anybody else's heads, every time you think or hear the phrase: the end of the world?


It's the end of the world as we know it ... la la la and I feel fine ..
.


edit on 14-1-2011 by Fenix777 because: alignments issue



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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This could very well be reaching, I don't know but please check out my thread on a different topic, then check your map against mine. What do you think? Other people have seen the similarities as well, if you read the entire thread. Could this be where the poison is coming from?

S & F

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 14-1-2011 by Tasty Canadian because: add stuff
:
edit on 14-1-2011 by Tasty Canadian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Condemned0625
 


Ok, that brings TPTB back into the equations, but what I don't understand, is the reason for killing of birds and fish, randomly?

Unless it's a test...?



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by Tasty Canadian
 


You know what? I actually think that it does correlate, except for a handful of spots that is not marked on yours. And I do mean literally just a handful. Nevertheless, you might be on to something here.

Here's something that might tie in as well, although indirectly, it's merely for example purposes. we have a friend, that works for a company that transports fuel. I know fuel and gasses, not much to do with each other, but you'll be surprised. The one evening while visiting, he was having a little bit of a rant, here's the gist of it. When the trucks go to load the fuel, it is done via a pressurized pump and pipe line. The company that he works for, keeps running into problems, with the supplier, as they continuously have s spill. Now this is not just the company that he works for that has this problem, it's all the companies that load there. They have very strict procedures in place for the trucks going through checks and services before they can go load, all of which has to be certified and handed over to the supplier. If they have an incident at the supplier 3 times, the company gets blocked from being able to load, until they can provide certificates for some serious service checks by an independent company that all the valves etc has been replaced etc. It's a long complicated thing. This takes time and costs a fortune.

They have time and time again, tried to explain to the supplier that the pressure of the fuel being pumped into the trucks is completely out of the range of any truck could possibly handle. There is no getting this message across to the supplier though. They even once called a meeting with all the transporters as well as servicing companies and the supplier, to no avail. There thick-headedness, simply makes no sense.

The reason I'm bringing this up, is what if it's the same situation with the gasses being pumped over there? Except now, in stead of a spillage, you have a leakage. And the companies that are doing the pumping, simply won't listen to reason, as according to them, their things are up to standard.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Fenix777
 


The reason is unknown to me. I would have to ask her if she knows the reason for the animal genocide. If they are the ones behind it, there must be a reason.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by Condemned0625
 


Please do, I would honestly like to know if she has any more info on this.

It's exactly as you said, there must be a reason. It simply makes no sense for any body (human or otherwise) to do something like this, at this scale, for absolutely no reason.
edit on 14-1-2011 by Fenix777 because: typo



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Damned shame about the AGs... they arent your average parrot. I had 2 as rescues and they are quite intelligent and sensitive. They have the capacity of a 4 yr old. If there was an illness leading up to this, theyd have let you know... some can tell you verbally of course, but mainly its by behavior. They are very very sensitive . This had to have been quite sudden if others didnt see any indications. Even in the wild these birds are very interactive with humans.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


Exactly, they are the sweetest birds, and incredibly sensitive.

If they are lonely they tend to pull out all their own feathers in frustration. They are really like you said, like little 4 year old kids.

My dad had one, he knew everybody in that house by name (not my dad, the bird ... errr although my dad too, obviously:lol
, even the dogs and cats. I think the dogs thought of him as a pest, as he kept calling them, and they'd come running only to find the bird offering them "make-believe" bones. The cats just ignored him. And don't get him started on car alarms, or the sound of somebody pushing the remote to lock or unlock them. Everybody was constantly jumping up checking on the cars, it was crazy. We all loved him though. Does it sound like they had a little zoo there? Something like that, they were all rescues, even the AG was a rescue.

Thanks so much for your reply, it's nice to meet somebody else out there that cares about the animal kingdom.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Fenix777
 


Seriously - no kidding... that song is in my head constantly these past few weeks!! Along with other songs with similar theme, ones I wouldn't even be a fan of!

OP: This is really interesting, and actually it's the first I have heard about these parrots... how did I miss this one?!
Given that parrots from the same group in two crates which were transported by another airline were healthy... One would assume it was something wrong on that particular flight that killed these. Either way, it's a crying shame seeing all our beautiful nature dying like this.

edit on 14-1-2011 by Wildeagle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by Wildeagle
 


Hi Wildeagle

Strange about these songs,eh? I also have a couple of them, but that one is foremost there. Especially while visiting ATS and reading threads about the end of the world... and when my son starts
He's 15 and at an age where he is like a doom and gloom prophet. At least he is concerned with nature and the general state of the world, and not just music and girls, although there's that too, but when he starts on the doom and gloom I want to run. Ahh well, he must have inherited it from me, but I swear I'm not as bad as him


I think the reason you could have missed it, is the same reason why anybody else here could have missed it. SA news, real SA news, not the political stuff, seem to only reach to our borders, I have no idea why. News24 is an online news source, and they try to cover everything, not mainly politics. Unfortunately, not many people outside of SA knows about it for some inexplicable reason, in my two months here, I have never seen it linked or sourced. They cover world news, though, not just SA. So I really can't fathom why it never gets sourced. .



One would assume it was something wrong on that particular flight that killed these


I thought about this too, the only problem is that the airline denies that there was anything wrong, and the fact that a dog that was on the same flight, was fine and healthy when they landed, seems to confirm that there was nothing wrong on the flight itself.

This is all so confusing and doesn't make any sense at all...
What about something else entirely, not something physical, like water or air?
edit on 15-1-2011 by Fenix777 because: readability



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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Hmm ... seems that not many people are interested in mass bird and fish deaths anymore ...



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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Hi Fenix

Ok, I have read the article and obviously your thread. Whilst I agree that nothing makes much sense, I am not ready to completely rule out the possibility of a contaminated air supply. It would be interesting to know the exact packing order of the crates in the cargo hold, eg; where was the doggy in relation to the surviving AG's. Birds are far more susceptible to gas poisoning than dogs and it is for this reason that they were used in the mines for centuries.
I'm saying that it is possible that even the dog and the other 10 AG's may have suffered poisoning but that the dog survived only because he was brought to fresh air in time whilst the 10 surving parrots did not reach acceptable oxygen levels in time.

On the other hand maybe it is "the end of the world as we know it"


I dont expect the airline would accept liability and end up having to pay over R2 mil for our feathered friends.

Or

Is the Obama admin up to tricks again?

Would like to get the answers though.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by Wildeagle
 


Wowweee, love the red hair, ok, I geuss I will immigrate to Ireland.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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Even in the wild these birds are very interactive with humans


I don't like making posts like this, but that, frankly, comes out of the back end of a cow when it comes to the areas where animals are frequently taken out of the wild for the pet trade. It's a selective pressure that makes them avoid humans, if they want to live and breed in the wild.

Animals caught and shipped in the wild die in vast numbers. It happens with reptiles, corals, fish, invertebrates, amphibians, and birds.

Not only had these animals been taken out of their natural environment, and who knows how they were caught? If a physical trap, could be harmful AND stressful, and it's far from unthinkable in DRC that they used some sort of pharmaceutical-laced bait, with the intention of sedating the birds, and ended up giving plenty of them complications.

1650 wild caught African greys? The very thought that people are legally permitted to take that number of highly intelligent, sensitive animals from the wild when they have been bred in captivity makes me sick.

There are so many African Greys in captivity that we should keep our captive breeding with them, and only add individuals who have been accidentally harmed, or rescued from someone's menu, to captivity. Parrots, relying heavily on fruit, don't tend to exist at huge densities, and so taking this number is horrific.


Rant over, and sorry for that.

Point is, the cause here is exclusively human. I suspect that the majority of other bird/fish deaths are human activities weakening population resistance to environmental changes, but in this case, it's all human. S+F because it's pet-trade horror, not for connection to other bird-deaths.

PS - @ Advantage, not disputing that they may interact with humans in areas where they are not hunted. Sorry for aggressive attack of your quote, I'm just upset because people continue to kill wonderful animals.
edit on 15/1/2011 by TheWill because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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Scampy and TheWill, I'll reply to your posts as soon as I am done researching a bit more.

What I wanted to say, while I was researching, I found this little snippet in wikipedia, which I found interesting:




Infectious diseases The discovery of West Nile Virus in the western hemisphere was heralded by an outbreak of disease in crows and other wild birds. Other emerging diseases have demonstrated linkages between animal health events and human risk, including Monkeypox, SARS, and Avian Influenza. [edit] Terrorist events Some speculate that animals could provide early warning of a terrorist attack using biological or chemical agents. Since most potential bioterrorism threats are zoonoses (infectious diseases of animal origin), animals could also be at risk from a terrorism attack and may be first to show signs of illness due to increased exposure or susceptibility. For example, when anthrax was inadvertently released from a Soviet weapons facility in Sverdlovsk, livestock died at a greater distance from the plant compared to human cases.


I found it on this page: Animal sentinels

So it could very well be a disease brewing or a terrorist attack. We would have to explore those possibilities with correlating the facts that we do have, to be able to ascertain the plausibility of them.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by SCAMPY
 


Hi Scamp

I've looked into your theory extensively, what I found was that it was specifically canaries used in the mines, and they were used because they were particularly extra sensitive to carbon monoxide and methane. That I found in the link above for my previous quote, so I'm not going to post that link again.

So, going on that you meant carbon monoxide; I have found these two images to be able to do a comparison for carbon monoxide in the atmosphere, between August 2010 and today. That would cover the entire time-span that would be needed in order for your theory to work (I couldn't find images for the specific dates in question):

This one for August 2010


And this one for the last 3 days



In my opinion, that rules out carbon monoxide in the atmosphere, because

a) The parrots were not in animated flight at the time, they were in crates on a plane at the time; and


b) If you follow how the carbon monoxide moved in the atmosphere, between August and today, there is not sufficient correlation between the bird/fish deaths, as well as where the parrots died and the carbon monoxide in the air.


In fact the carbon monoxide, if it was between then an now at the levels that would kill them in the atmosphere, then it should have started killing them in mass in August already. So that rules that out, that leaves Carbon Monoxide in the cargo holder on the plane, if it were to be because of an dysfunctional air-supply system on the plane itself and the carbon monoxide of the plane itself was leaking into the cargo hold via those means.

I looked into that too. If you go on the dog, that was healthy when they landed, and you look at the info here:, it gives you quite an extensive list of symptoms that the dog would be having as well as a time span of within 10 minutes:




* Sleepiness
* Cherry red skin and mucous membranes (e.g., nostrils, lips, ears, genitals), but this side-effect is usually not visible in most animals
* Weakness
* Lethargy
* Difficulty in breathing
* Seizures
* Abortion in pregnant animals especially those in late gestation period
* Depression
* Deafness
* Uncoordinated movements
* Coma
* Death


So I wanted to find out what would the LDL levels be for all that to occur, and found, that it wouldn't take much at all. In this, interesting, nice read, happy ending, news article they happen to mention the levels for humans:




Ruby personnel took the CO levels in their bloods and explained that they were well above normal. That range is 1 percent in non-smokers up to 9 or 10 for two-packs-a-day smokers, experts said. "My daughter's was 16. My wife was 18. My son was 26, and mine was 29," Mr. Graziani said.


In 1895 J.S. Haldane, did an experiment on himself, exposing himself to the gas. He described deficiences (sic) in:


vision, audition, balance, reading and writing at COHb levels ranging from 25 to 50%


Link to the article here. Unfortunately, I don't have $20 U.S. to pay for the full article, it would have been interesting to find out the rest. But I don't do dollars, I do Rands
, so there goes that idea.

Those levels are not high at all, then take into consideration that the levels would be by far less for the dog and the birds. I didn't find any evidence to suggest that the levels for birds and dogs were different from each other, only that animals' LDL levels are lower than humans. In This article, it states, that the goal levels in Queensland, for example, is set to be only 8ppm over an 8 hour period.

If it was, as you suggest, a dysfunctional air-supply system, then the levels getting into the cargo area, would be sufficient to kill the dog as well. Yet, the dog was healthy.

I'm going to split my reply to you in two, as this one is getting a bit long, and I need to cover the carbon dioxide aspect as well, in case you were actually intending carbon dioxide.

edit on 15-1-2011 by Fenix777 because: typo



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Fenix777
 


Thank you for the information Fenix. I did mean the Co2 levels and as always, stand to be corrected.



posted on Jan, 15 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by SCAMPY
 


Carbon dioxide poisoning, causes hypercapnia (sic) and Asphyxiation. See the symptoms below.



is generally defined as a blood gas carbon dioxide level over 45 mmHg. Since carbon dioxide is in equilibrium with bicarbonate in the blood, hypercapnia can also result in a high serum bicarbonate (HCO3−) concentration. Normal bicarbonate concentrations vary from 22 to 28 milligrams per deciliter.
The normal levels for carbon dioxide in the human blood stream is between 30 and 40 mm of Hg and is non toxic as opposed to carbon monoxide. An oxygen-deficient atmosphere contains less than 19.5% oxygen by volume.

Carbon dioxide poisoning is mostly caused by hyperventilation, as well as exposure to environments with high carbon dioxide levels such as around volcanoes, fires, heavily smokey areas etc. Like if there is a fire. It's like carbon monoxide, in so far as it has no, smell or anything, carbon dioxide does however have has a slightly acidic taste.



Carbon Dioxide Poisoning - Symptoms Mild carbon dioxide poisoning symptoms are:
* Muscle twitching
* Reduced neural activity
* Flushed skin
* High blood pressure

As the severity of hypercapnia increases, the following carbon dioxide poisoning symptoms may be experienced:
* Headache
* Lethargy
* Elevated rate of cardiac output
* Irregular heartbeat
* Panic
* Convulsions
* Unconsciousness
* Eventually death

Linky. So, you are going to know very quickly that you are in a area where the carbon dioxide levels are elevated, as they would have in the cargo area, since it only takes an increase of 5% of carbon dioxide to first taste, and then start to feel the symptoms. Unfortunately it's for humans. So delving deeper, or at least trying to, it seems all the focus is on the effects on humans for this kind of thing, and bugger the effect on the poor animals. Moving on ... delving deeper.

I found a little bit of info, where it is clear that a simple 5% increase in carbon dioxide in dogs, like with humans, produces symptoms of carbon dioxide poisoning. This time to get access to the full article is $15U.S *sigh*
.


The symptoms of dog poisoning you will likely observe, will be heavy panting and rapid heartbeat (up to 200 beats per minute). Temperatures may rise as quickly as 2 degrees Fahrenheit every five minutes! In some case studies, the dogs' temperatures have reached 108 degrees, at which point death has occurred.


Ok, finally I found some decent info on the effects and how long it takes on animals, (no unfortunately not dogs, but if it takes just a couple of minutes for humans (depending on how much you smoke) to feel the effects of just 5% increased levels, 5 minutes in rats and the same for pigs according to this site. You can do a search for the effects on humans on the same site, the linky I gave, focused on animals (I don't even want to think about the cruelty of the experiments on the poor animals).

I think it's safe to say that doggy should have also died within 5 minutes of exposure, at the levels that you are suggesting for leakage through the dysfunctional air supply, that it would take to kill 750 African Greys. I mean we are talking about 20 000 gallons of fuel being burnt. (obviously depending on the size of the plane) (20 000 gallons = 90921,99 Liters). Then again, the leaked gas would rather be carbon monoxide and not carbon dioxide, as that is what is created with the burning of fuel, is it not?

Scampy, I was actually hoping, that because I couldn't find any info to counter your argument, that maybe you had hit the nail on the head. Even though it still wouldn't account for the bird deaths other than the AG's. Those two maps I gave in my previous post to you, covers the CO2 angle as well. I don't want to just counter you, which is why, when you brought it up, I decided to do more extensive research, in the hopes of finding you were right. On the parrots at least. After the last site I found however, I can no longer hold that hope, simply because the dog should have been dead as well, if your theory was correct. The information that I did manage to find in my honest opinion, proved that to me. Believe me, try doing a search on carbon dioxide poisoning, mostly you find it just gives you monoxide. Now narrow it down to animals. Very frustrating to say the least.



Linkys for additional info:
CO2 levels in blood
Def of air
Gives an extensive list for symptoms 1% and upwards in section 11 (pdf format) also, just for interest sake, in section 12 it lists that it does not have an adverse ecological effect.
What is carbon dioxide

edit on 15-1-2011 by Fenix777 because: ETA




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