Thanks for this!
Solar System Orbiting the Hammar Axis, page 1
Topic started on 14-1-2011 @ 09:26 AM by Hammaraxx
Introduction:
I am taking the opportunity here to explore an idea that has taken me over ten years to develop. I had previously introduced it on this thread: The theory we inhabit a Binary Star system? and are now aware that although it feels quite simple to me, I am not sure I am explaining it well enough. As a result, I ask forgiveness in advance if some of my words read a little condescending, that is not my intention but instead simply to have my message undestood.
Please feel free to ask questions, point out perceived errors and in other words force me to keep explaining until it all makes perfect sense.
This post may be a little long but I ask you to bear with me if you have any interest in the following:
A) The (commonly accepted but not accurate approximated ‘25,920’ year long) Precession of the Stars also known as axial precession and the precession of the equinoxes.
B) The possibility that the Earth spends time above and below the galactic plane.
C) The theory that the (between 22.1° and 24.5°) tilt of the Earth’s axis wobbles around (clockwise, looking down from the North) being the cause of (A) as it is explained in the above link.
D) The plane of the Moon’s orbit of the Earth and the difference between the changing positions of a Full Moon rise and the Sun rise throughout the year.
I do not agree with (C – the wobbling axial tilt) and in this post I am setting out to explain why I do not agree with the theory of the wobbling Earth axis being the cause of (A), the Precession of the Stars and what I believe is the cause of the phenomena.
Please, do not fear or expect a complex delivery, I will not be entering into any mathematical formula or complex physics. If you can grasp the basic idea that the Earth orbits the Sun maintaining its axial tilt, resulting in the changing seasons (Summer, Autumn, Winter & Spring) throughout a year on Earth, then I believe that you will be able to grasp what I am getting at.
Please allow me to begin.
The Hammar Axis:
The premise of this idea is in three parts: The tilt of the Earth’s axis does not wobble as widely accepted but instead remains pretty close to constant. The Earth spends time above and below the galactic plane. The stars actually DO rotate around our solar system during the Precession of the Stars. I have named the imaginary axis which our solar system orbits the Hammar Axis.
Earth’s axis does not wobble as widely accepted but instead remains pretty close to constant:
What I mean by that is: if you were able to observe the Earth from an imaginary stationary place outside our galaxy for thousands of years you would see very little change to the angle or tilt of the Earth’s axis. Any changes to it would be the result of events on Earth (Eg. major Earthquakes) or other stellar objects either colliding or come close enough to have a temporary effect on the axial tilt.
At this point I humbly ask that you simply remain open to that possibility for now.
Note: In 1891, astronomer S. C. Chandler discovered a slight wobble like variation in the earth's North South axis of rotation amounting to 0.7 seconds of arc over a period of 435 days, or about 14 months. He discovered that the point of the Earth's poles wander as the planet spins. The wobble at the poles describes an irregular circle ranging from 10 to 50 feet in diameter. This has been called the Chandler wobble.
The Chandler wobble is extremely small compared to the wobble thought to be the cause of the precession of the stars and is not considered to be of any consequence to the idea I am putting forward.
Background
To avoid any cultural issues, making no claim of significants except as positional markers, I have opted to use the date December 22nd in all years as my marker for Northern Hemisphere mid Winter and the Southern Hemisphere mid Summer and June 22nd in all years for their opposites.
Pictorial representation of the positions of the Earth, the Moon and the Sun at these dates:
Notice the plane of the Moon’s orbit of Earth in the above pictures?
This is the causes of the position of Sunrise and Full Moonrise to change positions on the horizon throughout the year, mapped and observed by ancient structures such as Stonehenge.
What I have so far presented is widely accepted. Without an obvious cause to a matching change to the Moon’s orbital plane (for which I have found none to date), this alone, is enough to discredit the idea that the Earth’s axial tilt wobbles else it would render structures like Stonehenge useless for determining the position of the Sun and the Moon throughout the year after only a hundred years or so.
All explanations for wobbling Earth’s axial tilt that I have, so far, been able to discover make no mention of any adjustment of the Moon’s orbital plane.
Time to Look at our Galaxy, the Milky Way
In recent times, with the aid of technology such as the Hubble Telescope, we have gained a grand picture of our home galaxy.
(3D Milky Way images generated from 3dgalaxymap.com)
It is believed that our Solar system orbits the Milky Way, taking somewhere between 200 and 250 million years to complete each orbit. Now 50 million years is a large room for error, so for the sake of simplicity I’m going to use the approximation of 200 million years for a galactic orbit. (Remember, I said I would use no complex maths.)
Side Note: 200 Million years divided by 25,920 years for each completed Precession of the Stars gives us around 7,716 Precessions per galactic orbit.
This is how most consider the 200 million year galactic rotation:
It is pretty much considered the stars in the galaxy hold their places in relation to one another and the galaxy simply spins around just like a pizza. I do not agree with this way of looking at it as you will soon see.
B) The Earth spends time above and below the galactic plane.
It is currently considered that our Solar System lies close to the galactic plane due to the Milky Way roughly dividing the night sky into two equal hemispheres and that the plane of the galaxy is approximately 60 degrees to the ecliptic (the plane of the Earth's orbit around the Sun).
Some people believe that the Earth spends time both above and below this galactic equator. The idea, which I will get to very shortly, to explain the precession of the stars will also demonstrate how it is very likely our solar system travels above and below the galactic plane during every (25,920 year approximate) precession. Again, roughly around 7,716 times per galactic orbit.
The stars actually DO rotate around our solar system during the Precession of the Stars.
I am not making a pre Copernican Revolution statement with that claim, precisely the opposite. What I am about to offer is yet another aspect of the dynamic movement of our galaxy which I have previously not found mentioned anywhere else.
I do not dismiss the idea that others may have also considered this movement, I have simply not found mention of it and especially not in relation to it being the cause of the precession of the stars or the travel above and below the galactic equator.
In the next paragraph I will attempt to explain the movement within our galaxy that I think is responsible for the stars appearing to slowly rotate the Earth in the Precession of the Stars as well as causing the Solar system to move above and below the galactic equator.
The Galactic arms are in motion, twisting, spiralling or rotating as well as orbiting the galactic centre.
Consider this rough sketch picture:
See if you can imagine the imaginary ‘axis’ along the centre of each galactic arm, represented by the two darker lines in this picture (This is the axis I call the Hammar Axis). All of the stars, planets and other stellar objects twist around this axis.
Our solar system lays within a small section of galactic arm we have named Orion Spur or the Orion Arm. As shown in this drawing.
The following diagram represent a cross section of the Orion Spur demonstrating the relationship between the Earth, Sun and other stars as the galactic arm slowly rotates (each disc representing an approximate 2000 year interval)
The Pendulum lines in the above diagram are actually how a half rotation would appear but are used artistically here to demonstrate the constant direction of the Earth’s planes and the direction of the Earth’s axial tilt.
Thank you for reading
Well that, my friends, is the idea of the Hammar Axis in a nutshell.
As you can see, there is no need for the axial tilt to wobble around, nor is there a requirement for another object to interact with our Sun such as being part of a binary star system although this idea does not discount that possibility also taking place.
I look forward to your responses both for and against it as well as any questions you may have. My intention is at best, to find the most understandable way to communicate the idea by ironing flaws in my description. I am also open to having the idea completely destroyed if I can be provided with an easily explained reason.
~Namaste
I am taking the opportunity here to explore an idea that has taken me over ten years to develop. I had previously introduced it on this thread: The theory we inhabit a Binary Star system? and are now aware that although it feels quite simple to me, I am not sure I am explaining it well enough. As a result, I ask forgiveness in advance if some of my words read a little condescending, that is not my intention but instead simply to have my message undestood.
Please feel free to ask questions, point out perceived errors and in other words force me to keep explaining until it all makes perfect sense.
This post may be a little long but I ask you to bear with me if you have any interest in the following:
A) The (commonly accepted but not accurate approximated ‘25,920’ year long) Precession of the Stars also known as axial precession and the precession of the equinoxes.
B) The possibility that the Earth spends time above and below the galactic plane.
C) The theory that the (between 22.1° and 24.5°) tilt of the Earth’s axis wobbles around (clockwise, looking down from the North) being the cause of (A) as it is explained in the above link.
D) The plane of the Moon’s orbit of the Earth and the difference between the changing positions of a Full Moon rise and the Sun rise throughout the year.
I do not agree with (C – the wobbling axial tilt) and in this post I am setting out to explain why I do not agree with the theory of the wobbling Earth axis being the cause of (A), the Precession of the Stars and what I believe is the cause of the phenomena.
Please, do not fear or expect a complex delivery, I will not be entering into any mathematical formula or complex physics. If you can grasp the basic idea that the Earth orbits the Sun maintaining its axial tilt, resulting in the changing seasons (Summer, Autumn, Winter & Spring) throughout a year on Earth, then I believe that you will be able to grasp what I am getting at.
Please allow me to begin.
The Hammar Axis:
The premise of this idea is in three parts: The tilt of the Earth’s axis does not wobble as widely accepted but instead remains pretty close to constant. The Earth spends time above and below the galactic plane. The stars actually DO rotate around our solar system during the Precession of the Stars. I have named the imaginary axis which our solar system orbits the Hammar Axis.
Earth’s axis does not wobble as widely accepted but instead remains pretty close to constant:
What I mean by that is: if you were able to observe the Earth from an imaginary stationary place outside our galaxy for thousands of years you would see very little change to the angle or tilt of the Earth’s axis. Any changes to it would be the result of events on Earth (Eg. major Earthquakes) or other stellar objects either colliding or come close enough to have a temporary effect on the axial tilt.
At this point I humbly ask that you simply remain open to that possibility for now.
Note: In 1891, astronomer S. C. Chandler discovered a slight wobble like variation in the earth's North South axis of rotation amounting to 0.7 seconds of arc over a period of 435 days, or about 14 months. He discovered that the point of the Earth's poles wander as the planet spins. The wobble at the poles describes an irregular circle ranging from 10 to 50 feet in diameter. This has been called the Chandler wobble.
The Chandler wobble is extremely small compared to the wobble thought to be the cause of the precession of the stars and is not considered to be of any consequence to the idea I am putting forward.
Background
To avoid any cultural issues, making no claim of significants except as positional markers, I have opted to use the date December 22nd in all years as my marker for Northern Hemisphere mid Winter and the Southern Hemisphere mid Summer and June 22nd in all years for their opposites.
Pictorial representation of the positions of the Earth, the Moon and the Sun at these dates:
Notice the plane of the Moon’s orbit of Earth in the above pictures?
This is the causes of the position of Sunrise and Full Moonrise to change positions on the horizon throughout the year, mapped and observed by ancient structures such as Stonehenge.
What I have so far presented is widely accepted. Without an obvious cause to a matching change to the Moon’s orbital plane (for which I have found none to date), this alone, is enough to discredit the idea that the Earth’s axial tilt wobbles else it would render structures like Stonehenge useless for determining the position of the Sun and the Moon throughout the year after only a hundred years or so.
All explanations for wobbling Earth’s axial tilt that I have, so far, been able to discover make no mention of any adjustment of the Moon’s orbital plane.
Time to Look at our Galaxy, the Milky Way
In recent times, with the aid of technology such as the Hubble Telescope, we have gained a grand picture of our home galaxy.
(3D Milky Way images generated from 3dgalaxymap.com)
It is believed that our Solar system orbits the Milky Way, taking somewhere between 200 and 250 million years to complete each orbit. Now 50 million years is a large room for error, so for the sake of simplicity I’m going to use the approximation of 200 million years for a galactic orbit. (Remember, I said I would use no complex maths.)
Side Note: 200 Million years divided by 25,920 years for each completed Precession of the Stars gives us around 7,716 Precessions per galactic orbit.
This is how most consider the 200 million year galactic rotation:
It is pretty much considered the stars in the galaxy hold their places in relation to one another and the galaxy simply spins around just like a pizza. I do not agree with this way of looking at it as you will soon see.
B) The Earth spends time above and below the galactic plane.
It is currently considered that our Solar System lies close to the galactic plane due to the Milky Way roughly dividing the night sky into two equal hemispheres and that the plane of the galaxy is approximately 60 degrees to the ecliptic (the plane of the Earth's orbit around the Sun).
Some people believe that the Earth spends time both above and below this galactic equator. The idea, which I will get to very shortly, to explain the precession of the stars will also demonstrate how it is very likely our solar system travels above and below the galactic plane during every (25,920 year approximate) precession. Again, roughly around 7,716 times per galactic orbit.
The stars actually DO rotate around our solar system during the Precession of the Stars.
I am not making a pre Copernican Revolution statement with that claim, precisely the opposite. What I am about to offer is yet another aspect of the dynamic movement of our galaxy which I have previously not found mentioned anywhere else.
I do not dismiss the idea that others may have also considered this movement, I have simply not found mention of it and especially not in relation to it being the cause of the precession of the stars or the travel above and below the galactic equator.
In the next paragraph I will attempt to explain the movement within our galaxy that I think is responsible for the stars appearing to slowly rotate the Earth in the Precession of the Stars as well as causing the Solar system to move above and below the galactic equator.
The Galactic arms are in motion, twisting, spiralling or rotating as well as orbiting the galactic centre.
Consider this rough sketch picture:
See if you can imagine the imaginary ‘axis’ along the centre of each galactic arm, represented by the two darker lines in this picture (This is the axis I call the Hammar Axis). All of the stars, planets and other stellar objects twist around this axis.
Our solar system lays within a small section of galactic arm we have named Orion Spur or the Orion Arm. As shown in this drawing.
The following diagram represent a cross section of the Orion Spur demonstrating the relationship between the Earth, Sun and other stars as the galactic arm slowly rotates (each disc representing an approximate 2000 year interval)
The Pendulum lines in the above diagram are actually how a half rotation would appear but are used artistically here to demonstrate the constant direction of the Earth’s planes and the direction of the Earth’s axial tilt.
Thank you for reading
Well that, my friends, is the idea of the Hammar Axis in a nutshell.
As you can see, there is no need for the axial tilt to wobble around, nor is there a requirement for another object to interact with our Sun such as being part of a binary star system although this idea does not discount that possibility also taking place.
I look forward to your responses both for and against it as well as any questions you may have. My intention is at best, to find the most understandable way to communicate the idea by ironing flaws in my description. I am also open to having the idea completely destroyed if I can be provided with an easily explained reason.
~Namaste
reply posted on 14-1-2011 @ 10:38 AM by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by Hammaraxx
Excellent post, I enjoyed it thoroughly! I will however need to read it again to visualise and get it through my thick skull and understand fully!
Do you think that the constant pole shift could be caused by the magnetic tugging between the solar plane and the galactic plain?
Excellent post, I enjoyed it thoroughly! I will however need to read it again to visualise and get it through my thick skull and understand fully!
Do you think that the constant pole shift could be caused by the magnetic tugging between the solar plane and the galactic plain?
reply posted on 14-1-2011 @ 12:31 PM by Heckren
There's a major hole in your theory. It has been proven that our home galaxy isn't Milky way, but instead we belong to dwarf galaxy that is
stretched around it. More here: The Milky Way - Welcome to your New Home Galaxy!
reply posted on 14-1-2011 @ 12:34 PM by zorgon
Originally posted by havok
My question is, as the ancients seemed to know...
When we pass through the galactic plane, do extremely significant changes take place?
That is my question because from what I read, this big date in 2012, we pass through it.
We passed through the Galactic plane about 2 million years ago and are currently 'above' the plane by 50 Light Years We will be moving up to 250 light years 'above' before we return.
So no... we will NOT be crossing in 2012
. That was covered in detail in this thread The Milky Way - Welcome to your New Home Galaxy!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The Galactic alignment the 2012 people are talking about is an astrological alignment
You posted while I was typing 
reply posted on 14-1-2011 @ 12:58 PM by havok
reply to post by zorgon
Thank you zorgon.
I am going through that thread now.
Seems I confused galactic with astrology.
Upon trying to wrap my brain around your genius thread, zorgon, I realized this...
The dwarf galaxy that is being swallowed by the MW is being torn to shreds.
That is absolutely amazing.
I am impressed and still have to finish reading...
Thank you zorgon.
I am going through that thread now.
Seems I confused galactic with astrology.
Upon trying to wrap my brain around your genius thread, zorgon, I realized this...
The dwarf galaxy that is being swallowed by the MW is being torn to shreds.
That is absolutely amazing.
I am impressed and still have to finish reading...
edit on 14-1-2011 by havok because: Added a new reason
reply posted on 14-1-2011 @ 01:13 PM by Time2Think
Great info here, very good job putting everything together and coming up with all the pictures - you should probably be working for NASA or
something... but even after going through all of the information here and the other thread about binary systems, I'm still really confused by the idea
of this "Galactic Plane" in my mind there's just too many different possibilities - for example are you saying that our Galaxy actually travels into
different "planes" aka dimensions? Or are you saying that there's another much larger "sun" that our entire Galaxy is orbitting? Or both... I don't
know about everyone else but I'm still very confused by all of this. I totally feel like there's a lot more information out there that's being swept
under the carpet so to speak. For example, I just saw on the news the other night new pictures of the Oort cloud (apparently they're now calling this
newer galaxy M82 - it took me a few minutes to find it online again now as I'm typing this out), where the scientists are saying all of the green
colors in the cloud is actually Oxygen...
Rather than putting a list of a bunch of links here, instead I'll put a link to the list of search results provided by Google:
Google search for "M82 + oort cloud"
Google search for "new galaxy discovered"
Rather than putting a list of a bunch of links here, instead I'll put a link to the list of search results provided by Google:
Google search for "M82 + oort cloud"
Google search for "new galaxy discovered"
edit on 14-1-2011 by Time2Think because: added another link.
reply posted on 14-1-2011 @ 01:25 PM by harryhaller
This is most interesting and well presented, thank you.
www.astronomynotes.com... Proposes the existance of "dark matter" to account for a discrepancy in the observed speed of the sun. Speed of the sun
The sun's speed is approximately 220km/s, but according to the size of our galaxy, and our distance from it's centre, we sshould only be travelling at 160km/s. Now i'm having a hard time confirming the latter, it's a fairly large unknown for science (read google), but this evidence does equally support your theory, as well as offer an alternative scenario. Are they mutually exclusive?
The Precession of the the equinoxes is one of the basic building blocks of our "science" ... and your theory could explain it admirably, it seems to for me, no inconsistency, and fits my own understandings. I really would like to hear from someone else, who knows more about such celestial wonders.
www.astronomynotes.com... Proposes the existance of "dark matter" to account for a discrepancy in the observed speed of the sun. Speed of the sun
The sun's speed is approximately 220km/s, but according to the size of our galaxy, and our distance from it's centre, we sshould only be travelling at 160km/s. Now i'm having a hard time confirming the latter, it's a fairly large unknown for science (read google), but this evidence does equally support your theory, as well as offer an alternative scenario. Are they mutually exclusive?
The Precession of the the equinoxes is one of the basic building blocks of our "science" ... and your theory could explain it admirably, it seems to for me, no inconsistency, and fits my own understandings. I really would like to hear from someone else, who knows more about such celestial wonders.
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