Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

reply to post by Namaste1001


Driving is a form of travel that is a privilege due to the inherit threat to life it brings. More or less, you can't exactly kill massive numbers of people by traveling by foot or bike. A car is a 2 tone killing machine in the right hands.

So yes, driving is a privilege, not a right.

Concerning rights and what ours are, I'm curious to know how the OP would handle a situation where the "offender" actually exercised existing rights unknown to the officer.

For instance here's two separate occasions in which an individual is pulled over because of homemade plates. This individual is aware and exercises a set of rights (briefly mentioned in this thread) that the majority of people have no idea about, including officers themselves.

Watch both traffic stops for different approaches taking by the (many) police officers involved. Take note of the alleged offender and how he handles each instance by exercising his rights. Ones the public and "authority" figures are not aware of.

Stop # 1



Stop # 2

reply to post by seeashrink


Nice post man.. Covers all bases in an easy to understand manner.

reply to post by Golf66

I too am an Oath Keeper and I have a flag on my wall in my office, it's hung upside down. If ordered to violate someone's rights the badge comes off. End of story.
Seeashrink

and what advice do you give when you have a phobia of automobiles and DO walk everywhere. ive been trying to maintain the mindset that after seven stops without any "successful seraches", or even grounds to stop me in the first place that they would recognize me and just leave me alone.

ive been accused of stealing my laptop (in my backpack) resisting arrest when i began to cross the road in front of a cop at a stop light. was almost in front of him and the lights flicked on, so i turned and basicly jumped for the curb (thinking he was headed to an emergency) he saw this as me trying to run for whatever reason and jumped out of his car like -"FINALLY"- they used this as a threat to make me afraid of going to jail, blah blah, "we have film of you running out of sight of the dashcam when the lights were turned on (ommiting that i stopped) ive had them look through my phone, my school supplies/boks/folders

yet not once have they found anything, nor do i have a record.
my question would basicly be : what the hell have i done wrong to be treated as a criminal everytime i decide to walk down the godforsaken street? they normally will do something to bait you into incriminating yourself, or lie about why they stopped you

was riding my buddies bike to marathon for a pack of smokes
*pulled over*
cop:"you know why i stopped you today?"
me:"hanvt a clue officer, but how can i help you?"
copo:"we recieved a call about five minutes ago of a man allegedly selling drugs, and you fit the description. i also saw you talking to that individual over there and believe you just made a drug deal
*points to friend at public park, shooting basketball*
me: "no sir, it may have appeared that way, but im on my way to the gas station to pick up some ciggarettes and borrowed that mans bike. his name is roy ********* by the way, a good friend of mine, and i left my house not even two minutes ago"
cop: im going to have to ask you to walk to the front of my car please, spread your legs and put your hands on the hood."
*cooperate through search*
cop:"for not being a drug dealer you sure have some nice stuff*
me (slightly frustrated at this point as he is running serial checks on my android, itouch, and laptop) "is it so hard to believe that someone in this town works for the things they buy?"
"listen, im not going to take that crap from some two-bit drugdealer, it insults my intelligence, and ive run your id and you dont have a job"
"you keep saying that, but if im insulting your intelligence, then you can tell me what drugs i sold, and show me the money i was given"
"one of these electronics could easily be payment"
"untill your dispatcher comes back and says they ARE mine" i also added " and because a job doesnt appear in a database doesnt mean i dont get on a roof in the blistering 90 degree heat to hammer planks of wood to peoples massively wasteful mansions day in and day out"
*report comes back as clean, another officer had pulled up before, but now the officer who looked eerily similar to ben from "the shield" came up to observe*
realizing that he may indeed get no money from me (3.75 hardly constitutes a drug deal) he started looking through my phone messages
"hey! thats illegal, and you know it, just let me go so you can actually go about your jobs without me wasting any more of your time*
baldie cop:"i dont see him doing anything against the law"
the other cop just smirks looking for evidence that i deal drugs
eventually he gives up, maybe after wading through my girlfriends/moms/dads messages
"your free to go, sorry for the inconvenience" he mumbles
"what about the disrespectful libel you perpetrated, treating me as a criminal from second one when i was being honest, patient, and cooperative, are you sorry for that?"
"he said you are free to go!" baldie adds
"yeah, thats what i thought.."

that was 5 months ago, yet, serches continue (particularly at the beginning/end of the month)
so why, please give me a bit of advice here, is it neccesary to have a reason to be stopped in a car, but not walking. as far as i can tell, this fits in to my right to travel freely and they cant use the bs excuse, driving is a priveledge

walking is a right, but apparently they have the right to disregard that simply because their quota is going unfilled (police presence in hamilton county has tripled in two years, leading to more of these incidents, and more unfilled quotas) so what do the average citizens have the ability to do but grovel? even groveling wont work if they think they can milk some money out of you one way or another

why do they get to stop me, for upwards of a half hour sometimes if all im doing is walking down the street as i always do?
i used to think cops were good, but more and more they are sh******* all over that perception every day. why do they get to stand my there, feel me up all over, (all while onlookers oggle the criminal on the side of the road) and yet, there is no report i can file, because they are in the right, or havnt done anything wrong, and have other officers testimony.

i have already had a case thrown out of court where i wanted to sue hcpd for a wrongful tazing/ arrest but the judge said that the policemen were just doing what they were ordered, and given the warrant to do (the fact that i was not in that warrant didnt mean anything. the fact that the description of who they were supposed to taze was a man that had recently robbed the same marathon i mentioned earlier, and was shirtless with blue jeans
i, on the other hand was jogging, no shirt/jogging shorts when all of a sudden my body seizes up, and i fall flat on my face, and had roadrash for the next week up and down my cheek/temple

but....i "refused orders" to get on the ground, put my hands on my head, stop etc etc
now having been jogging, had my ipod (that i got in a drug deal...rofl) and couldnt hear anything. this didnt matter at the time, i was in the right place at the wrong time. the court also found i had libeled hcpd, by being so adamant that they were not comparing me to the description i didnt match but just wanted to let some steam off. needless to say they didnt pursue charges, so they dont get any bad consequences from tazing the wrong guy

they just have to warn you that you are about to get tazed, rather you can hear or not.

walking seems riskier than driving in this damn city

Originally posted by Namaste1001
It's good to see things from the other side. Thanks for posting.

What I take issue with is when you said driving is a privilege not a right. Maybe, if you use the term driving which in legal terms is a commercial activity. Travelling however is a right not a privilege. We all have the lawful right to travel. That's lawful not legal.

You have the right to travel absolutely! However, Operating a Motor vehicle is a privilege. Otherwise you wouldn't need permission (A license) to drive that can be revoked when you screw up.

reply to post by seeashrink


How would this work in the officer's case if the person being stopped/ interviewed doesnt contract to legaleeze and remains unconctracted with his inalienable rights intact !

Under common law if a person knows how to address a police officer and doesnt contract to the officer then they cant do anything !

reply to post by rebeldog



I m 'replying as a joe public civilian: The cops are on the "job" ; not paid punching bags for drunk marines to test their manhood against. Jeeze a "SCOUT SNIPER" WITH SOMETHING TO PROVE????never heard of that.. I don't blame anyone for "calling in backup". Its not their job to go one one and best every civilian pr military member..They haveto go home, getup the next day and do it all over again. There are places and people looking for a fight youcan go "duke it out"
with....

reply to post by jeh2324

You know son, some people will just not let you be nice. I've already forgotten more about law enforcement than you will ever know and that includes constitutional rights. I'm also a ten year military veteran and an Oath Keeper. I suspect that there is no pleasing you on any subject.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Salamandy

This in not entrapment. Entrapment is when you lure someone into doing something that they would not ordinarilly do. Unmarked cars are not illegal. If you are not a speeder, you have nothing to worry about. These guy/gals are out there for your safety. We can't have people driving like idiots with no consequences.
Seeashink

reply to post by seeashrink


please talk about your experience with pedestrians, im starting to get very frustrade as stated in my above post. walking is supposed to be free travel, you dont need a license to do it, is that twhy they conduct so many pat-downs of anyone walking down the street? they wont end up paying for insurance/ paying the bmv/ the tickets/ the car itself, so is it just a way to get money from the people they see as "dodging some unneeded expenses?"

its infuriating when walking down the street to the gas station is suspicious enough to warrant search..

reply to post by Salamandy


In NC it is not againt the law/rules to take a dismissal/cancellation/rip up a ticket. Most officers will not however without good reason.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by jeh2324

 

You know son, some people will just not let you be nice. I've already forgotten more about law enforcement than you will ever know and that includes constitutional rights. I'm also a ten year military veteran and an Oath Keeper. I suspect that there is no pleasing you on any subject.
Seeashrink

Sorry Shrink I thought you were replying to my post when yours popped up.

I'm not a ground combat vet
but I was in Saudi for "desert storm"
I've got an Oathkeepers card in the wallet too.
count me as RETIRED USAF..."Son".
I have always respected Marines, got a few in the family and a few drinkin' buddies. But where does getting the crap kicked out of you by 10 "hardened combat Marines" come in the patrol officers handbook?

Originally posted by something wicked

Sorry, where did the OP say anything that matches your comments? Boiling things down he did say be honest, it helps, and treat the policeman with the same respect you would wish to receive..... given the scenarios described, if you have an issue with that then I would respectfully suggest it's you who has the issue, not the OP.

I like seashrink and beleive him to be an honest good cop, but i do not like the idea that you should have to sit there and have some cocky punk verbaly abuse you and try to "pick" a fight which is all too often yhe case now adays. I have had many good cops that i have spoken too and even been pulled over by, but I have noticed a big change in tone over the years with police IN GENERAL being muvh more aggresive.

While i admit i dont like being pulled over for nothing it doesnt really bother me too much when they are polite and run my tags and name and send me on.....but about the 100th time you have been pulled over with 2-3 more cars pulling up and its obvious they are WANTING you to get mad..........it gets old. I have no problem giving respect to a cop that gives me the same in return.
'

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reply to post by PhantomLimb

Someone needs to get an out of state lawyer and sue their butts off.
Seeashrink

I haven't read all of the posts, so this may have been asked already, but out of curiosity, has DHS been actively working closely with all local police departments preparing you for an event. It scares me sometimes reading the stories about cops being your worst enemy in the event of a natural or man made catastrophe, such as Katrina. I live in Louisiana and the stories that have seeped out of New Orleans about police obstructing justice and violating citizens rights were downright scary. I realize that police are only human and fear effects them the same as anyone else, but the badge and uniform gives them total control and sometimes, cops can take advantage of this authority in times of chaos. How would you suggest we handle a situation such as this and remain within the law?

Originally posted by urmenimu2
reply to post by seeashrink

 

the only problem with this post is the whole assumption that it is our job to kiss cop's butts even if they are abusing authority. we are supposed to manage the cop, calm him down, so that he doesnt arrest us for no reason, according to the OP.

i have a better idea. how about we require police to receive actual training to respect citizens that goes beyond the desire to bully and a 3 month academy that teaches them people are the enemy, then we take away most of their police powers so untrained bullys cannot be abusive, then we make a whole slew of laws that restrict police abuse so that if a cop is rude for no reason, he gets fired, since that would happen to the rest of us if we were rude on the job.

then we eliminate 1/2 of the millions of needless laws that make this such a weird culture in the first place, and we accept that a culture based on character and principal and self responsibility and compassion is the true meaning of a successful civilization.

i dont want any training sessions on how to please abusive morons who are overempowered and undertrained, just so i am not a victim of their illegal abuse. and i would much prefer a world where i could put a brown bag to my lips without harassment....and legalized weed too [i dont smoke, but i am sick of seeing people harrassed to ensure mexican cartels have income].

maybe if we can get the ONE IN TEN american citizens who are incarcerated or involved in the criminal justice system outta jail and into freedom and a sane culture, we wouldnt need a bunch of high school football glory day underachievers jumping all over people for a stem in their ashtray, and then "officers" could focus on real crimes, like violent crimes, which basically werent even covered in this post. wait.

yeah, violent crimes were covered in this post. you implied many cops, if angry, would arrest a citizen for angering them just by being more intelligent, thus giving that citizen a criminal history and a horribly abusive experience in jail overnight. well, its pretty hard not to be more intelligent than an abusive cop. so thats pretty violent. violence against innocent citizens. thats ugly. and no, i dont feel like kissin anyone's butt for it.

Nice rant and I agree with a great deal of what you said. I gave the advice that I gave not to encourage butt kissing of cops or condoning the activities of bad cops. I gave that advice to help you fight your battles against bad cops on level ground in a court of law not in the field where the idiot has a gun and no supervision. Weed should be legal, no arguement.
Seeashrink

The funny thing is...

In China, the police officers on public service are the ones who are polite at all times. If you are speeding they will normally just excuse them self and inform you of speeding regulations and how it makes traveling safer.

*If* they have to issue a ticket they will do it as smooth as possible.

Now, if a driver loses their temper and starts yelling to an officer about a ticket, the officer will do nothing but inform calmly what can be done about the situation.

They are there to serve you and they will go out of their way to make sure you know it!

I find this to be exceptionally rational and can not understand why American officers thinks it is a good idea to actively look for and confront potential criminals, where said potential criminals are controlling two tons of powerful machinery. It is very stupid to agitate anyone, especially a criminal in such situation. How hard is this to understand?

It would be better if traffic officers did nothing but talk in soft voices, to inform about traffic regulations and if needed report back suspicions to head quarters, and let them decide if an arrest is warranted. As well, if needed, where said arrest should take place (obviously not on the high way!), which basically would mean only heavy criminals would be concerned having hard hitting cops cracking down on them after returning from a traffic stop.

I know this is OT, but I figure it doesn't matter, since the OP is wrong on many legal advices, so I can not cause any further harm....

For instance, one should never tell the truth to a police officer in america, one should say nothing at all times.

My advices (for americans):

1. What you say can only and will only be used against you, truth or not. Therefore do not say anything. You can not gain anything by talking.

2. If you have fear for your servants, if you are afraid to exercise your rights, if you are treated less than your servant. It is time to be brave again and leave the country.