Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

Originally posted by surfnow2
reply to post by daddio

 

driving is not a right, its a privelage

Sorry, but you are wrong and possibly may not be able to read.......

It is undisputed that the use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is NOT a
mere PRIVILEGE, but a "COMMON AND FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT" of which the public and
individuals cannot rightfully be deprived. (Emphasis added) See: Chicago Motor Coach v. supra; Ligare v. Chicago, 28 N.E. 934; Boone v. Clark, 214 S.W. 607;

This is just a compilation of three court cases that EXPLAIN that traveling/driving is NOT a PRIVILEGE but a natural and fundamental RIGHT. You have the right to move about, and you have a right to OWN property, the right to own property ALSO encompasses the RIGHT to use that property ANY WAY YOU WISH, so long as you harm no one nor damage any one elses property. THATS IT!!!

Get over it, the courts have spoken.

edit on 23-1-2011 by daddio because: (spelling)

edit on 23-1-2011 by daddio because: (no reason given)

So, what the OP is telling us to do is to shut up and obey anything we are told, or else face charges? No thanks.

You, nor the police station which you work for are making the laws, in fact all I need do is voice my outrage to your captain and watch how fast you are put back into check.

Anyone reading this thread, rest assured the person posting this information is nothing more than a liar, seeking to claim the police have the right to do whatever they wish so long as they suspect otherwise, when in fact they don't. File a complaint and watch how fast those morons change their tones.

Police are more corrupt than those they claim to be protecting us against, to be honest I'm actually surprised it took people this long to realize this.

They are forced to fill a quota be it tickets or arrests, in a certain month. They don't care about you, or those you hold dare, in fact they only care about them self and their own, just like any other person. The next time you think to yourself "I can do that" and than second guess yourself because you think you may hold a bias, know for a FACT they do as well.

The police do not care about your rights, or the rights of anyone you know, all they care about is completing the day and earning their wage that my friends is a fact of life.


Til the day I die, screw the police and everything those crooked lowly pieces of filth stand for, they aren't protecting you, if you think they are, you are simply a shallow sheltered moronic fool.

I can't tell you how many times I've been pulled over while lighting up a cigarette, because I was "suspected" of doing something else, and their excuse? "Your license plate light is out" they do whatever they see fit, and use ant excuse they can, Hell I knew FOUR cops who decked kids 14 years of age in the face, because they lit up a cigarette (despite whatever any idiot wants to argue that is WRONG, and not even close to their right) while outside of High school. I watched a cop punch a 13 year old in front of me in class and the damn dean, and get away with it without so much as a warning from the school.

Police are losers, who seek to make up for what they lack in manhood by thinking somehow a badge gives them it, they aren't heroes, nor saints, they are LOSERS.

You think they give a damn about you?

Originally posted by surfnow2
reply to post by daddio

 

when you cite the US code it doesnt automaticly override state law. thats why its called federalism. federalism is where you have a central government (federal government) and the state governments. the states are given powers (by the US constitution) to enact and enforce laws, another words laws arent the same in every state. the same US code you are quoting gives the states their powers to enact and enforce laws. people seem to think they have all these right to do what ever they want and it is not true. there are laws that are in place, if you violate a law, you can be subject to law.

i am going to be quite frank here, there are bad cops out there I have seen it firsthand. how many people on here will say "great job, you arrested me because I was DUI or committed a home invasion? the vast majority of cops are great and would anything for anyone. these men and women that you all hate have children, wives, mothers and fathers. they are people just like you and me. they go out and do a job thats negative all day long and put up with crap from people who go out, commit crimes and then blame law enforcement for something they did. its a low paying job, dangerous and there are no set days off but they do it because it takes a special person to do it.
stop bitching and whining suck it up and take responsibility for your actions. why not go on a ride along and see if you can hack it.

FAIL.........

Yes, the Federal Code, when ratified by Congress, TRUMPS state law. Sorry but that's the way it is. And the federal code IS the standard as you say, so the states MUST use the federal definition and MAY NOT come up with it's own different definition. Ever heard of Constructive Fraud? The states do this all the time to generate revenue all the while undermining the Federal Authority. The Federal Government and the code keep and eye on the states and vice versa, checks and balances to keep the government FROM overstepping it's bounds of authority.

Man I love how some people just don't get it, act as goverenment schills or are part of the problem by trying to maintain the lies. Get over it.

Read a very well written law review here, download it as it is a PDF.www.constitution.org...

Do some research and don't just throw crap out there and tell people who have investigated this to no end, that they are wrong. AND FYI, my father was a detective, I went to law school and have ridden along, with responsible cops who NEVER wrote out traffic rickets, they said it wasn't their job.

To PROTECT AND SERVE......that means they know that their "powers" are subordinate TO the people.

U.C.C. - ARTICLE 9 - SECURED TRANSACTIONS; SALES OF ACCOUNTS AND
CHATTEL PAPER

PART 1. SHORT TITLE, APPLICABILITY AND DEFINITIONS


§ 9-109. Classification of Goods: "Consumer Goods"; "Equipment"; "Farm Products";
"Inventory".

Goods are:

(1) "consumer goods" if they are used or bought for use primarily for personal, family or
household purposes;

(2) "equipment" if they are used or bought for use primarily in business (including farming or a
profession) or by a debtor who is a non-profit organization or a governmental subdivision or
agency or if the goods are not included in the definitions of inventory, farm products or
consumer goods;

Relevant applicable stare decisis case cites relating directly to UCC 9-109:

“Under UCC §9-109 there is a real distinction between goods purchased for personal use
and those purchased for business use. The two are mutually exclusive and the principal
use to which the property is put should be considered as determinative.” James Talcott,
Inc. v Gee, 5 UCC Rep Serv 1028; 266 Cal.App.2d 384, 72 Cal.Rptr. 168 (1968).
“The classification of goods in UCC §9-109 are mutually exclusive.” McFadden v
Mercantile-Safe Deposit & Trust Co., 8 UCC Rep Serv 766; 260 Md 601, 273 A.2d 198
(1971).

“Automobile purchased for the purpose of transporting buyer to and from his place of
employment was ``consumer goods'' as defined in UCC §9-109.” Mallicoat v Volunteer
Finance & Loan Corp., 3 UCC Rep Serv 1035; 415 S.W.2d 347 (Tenn. App., 1966).

“The provisions of UCC §2-316 of the Maryland UCC do not apply to sales of consumer
goods (a term which includes automobiles, whether new or used, that are bought
primarily for personal, family, or household use).” Maryland Independent Automobile
Dealers Assoc., Inc. v Administrator, Motor Vehicle Admin., 25 UCC Rep Serv 699; 394
A.2d 820, 41 Md App 7 (1978).

Above, the Uniform Commercial Code which is recognized BY EVERY STATE in the Union. Along with more court decisions which SHOW, beyond a reasonable doubt, what the fact is.

I am a responsible American, I DO NOT WANT, nor DO I NEED, the police FOR ANYTHING!!!!!
That is pretty much it, keep your private security guard status and nose the hell out of MY personal and private business!! Simple as that. I can protect myself and my family just like men have done for the last thousand years. The job, the ONLY job, of the "police" is to raise revenue for the corporate city/state. It is illegal and unlawful and unconstitutional what they do. THAT is a FACT.

reply to post by Gakus


Funny thing is....you can file a restraining order against the precinct!!!
That's right folks, you can get a court order to keep the "police" at bay. They can not just pull you over and claim BS reasons for the stop. You can file a complaint as well with tthe FBI under "color of law" which is the way the police actually act, COLOR OF LAW, laws of no effect, unconstitutional laws. It is really pretty simple.

A cop has NO IDEA what your rights really are and they could care less, if they did, you would never get a traffic citation for failing to signal or going a few mph over, that is business.

Originally posted by Gakus
So, what the OP is telling us to do is to shut up and obey anything we are told, or else face charges? No thanks.

You, nor the police station which you work for are making the laws, in fact all I need do is voice my outrage to your captain and watch how fast you are put back into check.

Anyone reading this thread, rest assured the person posting this information is nothing more than a liar, seeking to claim the police have the right to do whatever they wish so long as they suspect otherwise, when in fact they don't. File a complaint and watch how fast those morons change their tones.

Police are more corrupt than those they claim to be protecting us against, to be honest I'm actually surprised it took people this long to realize this.

They are forced to fill a quota be it tickets or arrests, in a certain month. They don't care about you, or those you hold dare, in fact they only care about them self and their own, just like any other person. The next time you think to yourself "I can do that" and than second guess yourself because you think you may hold a bias, know for a FACT they do as well.

The police do not care about your rights, or the rights of anyone you know, all they care about is completing the day and earning their wage that my friends is a fact of life.


Til the day I die, screw the police and everything those crooked lowly pieces of filth stand for, they aren't protecting you, if you think they are, you are simply a shallow sheltered moronic fool.

I can't tell you how many times I've been pulled over while lighting up a cigarette, because I was "suspected" of doing something else, and their excuse? "Your license plate light is out" they do whatever they see fit, and use ant excuse they can, Hell I knew FOUR cops who decked kids 14 years of age in the face, because they lit up a cigarette (despite whatever any idiot wants to argue that is WRONG, and not even close to their right) while outside of High school. I watched a cop punch a 13 year old in front of me in class and the damn dean, and get away with it without so much as a warning from the school.

Police are losers, who seek to make up for what they lack in manhood by thinking somehow a badge gives them it, they aren't heroes, nor saints, they are LOSERS.

You think they give a damn about you?

edit on 23-1-2011 by Gakus because: (no reason given)

Feel better now do we?
Seeashink

reply to post by daddio


it could be that code and conduct is not law but policy

and policy is something private companies use instead of laws
for selecting customers,..

reply to post by surfnow2

these men and women that you all hate have children, wives, mothers and fathers. they are people just like you and me. they go out and do a job thats negative all day long and put up with crap from people who go out, commit crimes and then blame law enforcement for something they did.

And that somehow absolves them from harming honest citizens who have harmed no one?

its a low paying job, dangerous and there are no set days off but they do it because it takes a special person to do it.

Actually statistically it is more dangerous to drive on a public highway then it is to be a cop. Sorry to burst your high opinion of your courage but average citizens take more risk just driving to work then you do on the job.

stop bitching and whining suck it up and take responsibility for your actions. why not go on a ride along and see if you can hack it.

Maybe if cops took responsibility for THEIR actions and stopped harming people who have harmed no one and and blaming them for it, people might stop bitching about it. One thing from this thread is clear; cops here always blame others for thier actions. So it has never dawned on you that the reason you get all the hate is you may be doing something wrong in harming others? Are you really so thick headed to think that all the complainers must be criminals? You'd think at least one of you would get a clue by now...

Driving is not a right..... Sure u can travel on the roadway anytime you please.... But a driver's license is a privlage, given to people who have earned it to make their lives easier...

I want to point out that Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are not constitutional rights.... They are not protected under the constitution.

And they only apply so long as u don't interfere with another persons life, liberty, or happiness....

Next topic.... Don't listen to Gakus 1stly because he doesn't know what he's talking about... and is probably some ass with authority issues or didn't get the outrageous response from the cops when he called 911...

1. Quotas are illegal.

2. I am a cop, and I will invite anyone to come talk to me. While I a, on duty I make it my business to walk around and talk to people and know tue people I am working to protect.

3. Never once have I had a physical altercation, and it is because I give peope the time of day and respect that I would expect them to give me.

4 not all cops are assholes... Some are. Some are not. Remember this.

5. It is because of people like Gakus that cops will usually have an attitude with you.... He just got dome with 5 or 6 Gakuses... Wouldn't that put you in a bad mood to? Lol

6. While cops are expected to be cold as steel and straight as an arrow, we are only human... We get angry, frustrated, upset. And we can't say no I'm not gonna take that call I'm on a break to cool off, we pick ourselves up and go....

So if it is what you all want I will appologise for all the asshole bully cops... I am sorry. But do me a favor, remember that there are good ones out there who would die, simply to know you are safe. And they probably never got to know your name.

To all you “Police Officers” I would like to just inform you of a little truth that you may not fully realize. That truth being that if a major incident happens in your area, like Katrina or some earthquake, then the first thing to breakdown is often the police. Just like Katrina, the government will blame you for the peoples lawlessness and make you out to be the scapegoat for the breakdown of law and order. They will do this to give themselves the excuse to bring in the military and its private contractors, the only ones, they will always claim, who can do the job that you failed to do. The police aren't retained when this happens because the police are not trained to the military code of “The law no longer applies here” in a martial law situation.

As police departments across the country get cut, and in some cases eliminated all together, your ability to halt or quell a mass incident of any kind is beginning to erode away. Help cannot come from the city next door because they also do not have the manpower, money, or the equipment to help themselves, let alone you and your cities problems. The government knows this and is planning for the breakdown of law and order across the nation, are you? Just as global stability declined when the soviet union collapsed, so city instability will rise as the economy is collapsing.

So, firstly be more prepared then you were in the past. Keep more ammo in your car and on your person, have more plastic handcuff strips, keep a full medical gear bag, have fuel storage areas at home and perhaps town, these are the things you will need, as we will all need more if things get worse by slow degradation or a sudden incident. Don't be so against the militia members in your area, by design, they are not your enemy. Don't begrudge the concealed carry citizens as thugs with a gun, as you have in the past. Don't look down on the armed security guard that works at the bank. Why? Because every day that goes by is a day that you, and the rest of us, will need them more and more if things continue to get worse. They are not the enemy, instead, they may be the only citizens left who could help you to maintain law and order should an incident happen.

Is your department planning for anything at all other than trying to add political value to everyone’s job at the department? Do you know what your legal rights are to deputize other citizens? Do you even have a list of who you would deputize if you should need too? Does your department have a volunteer core? If it does, is it trying to expand its membership and training?

In short, it is time to start working more “With” the citizens then against them, or else, if an incident happens, we all will be under marshal law, or left for dead as not worth the resources to save. Freedom is responsibility, and we are failing that responsibility when we do not plan for the worst as other cities did not in the past. Your city leaders will not think to do this. They will be too busy trying to keep their own jobs, let alone yours in these poor economic times. It is you, the police, that must be an integral part of “reaching out” to the citizens. The citiznes cannot come to you first. Stop putting out ads that say, “Tell on your neighbors” and start creating more volunteer corps of people in which to deputize from should an incident happen.

Thank you for your service, and please remember if nothing else, the entire city is not against you, you just don't know who many of the decent ones are because your paths by nature rarely cross.

Originally posted by voudew
Driving is not a right..... Sure u can travel on the roadway anytime you please.... But a driver's license is a privlage, given to people who have earned it to make their lives easier...

I want to point out that Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are not constitutional rights.... They are not protected under the constitution.

And they only apply so long as u don't interfere with another persons life, liberty, or happiness....

Real simple here, grab your left ear with your left hand and your right ear with your right hand and give a good yank and see if you can pull that head out.

Did you NOT read the court cases I posted. I could post thousands and thousands of them where even the Supreme court has upheld that traveling by automobile IS an inherent right connected to the property rights that WE ARE NATURALLY BORN WITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is people like you that make these idiotic statements who do not understand WHO and WHAT they are. HUMANS existed LONG BEFORE any government, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Man created government TO SERVE HIM. If someone damages your property or violates your right to freedom (including but not limited to movement), THAT IS A CRIME.

NO VICTIM NO CRIME.

Cops do not have jurisdiction over the honest, responsible public ANYWHERE. If you step out of bounds and cause trouble, YES, you are committing a crime, traveling is not a crime.

A license conveys a privilege or bestows a right that otherwise would be illegal. That courts have shown, time and again that it is our NATURAL BORN RIGHT of movement and by the modern conveyance of the day, to "drive" i.e. travel to anywhere we please and while being careful and aware of others we will be kept safe and unharmed so long as we are careful of others. That was part of the Supreme courts decision. It is also listed in American Jurisprudence, which IS a volume of law books, which cops don't read.

reply to post by TKDRL


yes, its the gestapo mentality of divide and conquer.
police now are specifically profiled groomed and trained to ENFORCE with extreme prejudice and are funded by the department of homeland security.

the old asshole cop on the street is a dinosaur. the new and improved emotionless psycho robot is the way of the future.

we just need to all recognize it for what it truly is and stay alert and prepared

reply to post by daddio


again driving is not a RIGHT, it is a privelage. the right to drive is not mentioned anywhere in the constitution nor in any court cases that says its absolute. since driving is not a right and it is not governed by the federal goverment or the constitution, this gets left to the states under the 10th amendment. the 10th amenmendt gives the states the powers to enact laws that arent prohibited by the federal government, but arent mentioned. i dont know why people think they have all of these rights that arent rights.

your court case you quoted says you are free to travel, it says nothing about operating a vehicle of any kind

reply to post by voudew


read my post that i put up here a page back.

reply to post by daddio


traveling is not a crime. its when you violate the law when you travel it can become a crime. and with that is the potential loss of a license. i have been in several cases of people with lawyers have tried exactly what you are referring to and it is simply false. the judges give a quick teaching lesson about the 10th amendment and etc etc etc

reply to post by Hot_Wings


i read these postings and am astonished of peoples perception of law enforcement.
your statements are generalizations and i hope you aren't referring to everyone in law enforcement.
maybe a better message would be to get educated on what law enforcement does first before making generalizations. for those who have never been a police officer or have served in this form of position of public service don't know the dynamics of what we deal with on a day to day basis. you have no idea of the mindset and things that you would never want to do or see. we do this because we do care, provide for our families as well as others.

reply to post by surfnow2


the presidents a good man too.....

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

 

More bad advice, it just keeps coming. You follow a cop home and you are on an entirely different playing field. The only way this will end is badly for you. Cops are vicious about protecting our families and you are right, our "tin badge" will mean nothing. Please readers, don't do anything this stupid. We receive threats all the time and we are use to it. But, you endanger our families? God help you. All I can say is "may you be in heaven 30 minutes before the devil knows you're dead" Baaaaad mojo, baaaaaad advice.
Seeashrink

And here is the problem in stark relief:

Seeashrink, you seem to be a good cop, as cops go. Most of your posts are fairly intelligent, but here you show your true colors and utter lack of empathy or understanding. You threaten extra-legal violence, i.e. criminal assault, to protect your family, while denying the same to those you threaten. You seem to feel justified in in exceeding the law with impunity to protect your family.

Cops follow people to their homes and threaten their families all the time...why do you feel yours should be immune to the threats and violence you and yours visit upon them? Everyone has a right to defend themselves and their families against violence, whether it is state-sanctioned or not.

One thing I've learned over time is that police are not there to protect me: they never have and never will. I've had my home broken into, I've been attacked, my family threatened. Never once have the police been helpful: in actuality, they have only added to the threat on the few occasions I, in my naievete, actually called them for assistance. Perhaps it is because I'm Native American. But I learned, and now deal with anything that comes up on my own. I well NEVER again call the police for assistance: they are too dangerously unpredictable. You never know who will show up: a good cop (rare, but possible), a steroid-drugged psycho (far more common), or just a mean, power-happy thug looking for a good time bashing someone.

Police tend to forget that from the public's perspective most of them are delusional: they whine about how "dangerous" their job is and they deserve some slack for that, but the reality is that police work is some of the safest work you can have. Construction, farming, fishing, taxi driving, convenience store clerking are all more deadly than police work. Police constantly carp about how dangerous criminals are, but most never see one, and when they do, they outnumber them about 10 to 1, and far outgun them. And from the public's perspective, they aren't very honest either. They lie all the time, whether it is a small lie over a traffic ticket or the huge lies of undercover cops who cultivate and then betray the friendships they've cultivated. Either way, they are both cops. The undercover lies may be necessary, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still lies designed for betrayal. In the end you are dealing with people who lie for a living and are very good at it...how are any of us to trust such a group?

You advise people to grow up and be responsible for their actions: I challenge you to do the same. Police are not responsible for keeping people safe. People are kept safe by their own actions. I have met more responsible citizens than responsible cops. Police excuse themselves of responsibilty all the time, even when various departments have been exposed as corrupt and criminal (LA's Rampart Division springs to mind, Chicago, Detroit, New York and Philly have all had massive corruption scandals repeatedly): it's always just a few "bad apples". Apparently they've forgotten the adage that one bad apple will spoil a barrel. Police your own ranks first, with zero tolerance for steroids (as dangerous a drug as methamphetamine), zero tolerance for lies, and zero tolerance for abuse, then and only then will you gain the public's trust. Why isn't there a "three strikes and you're out" for bad cops? Far too often, bad cops just move from one jurisdiction to another.

And to come back to your quote...how are we to trust YOU seeashrink? If you feel your family is threatened you have stated you would ignore the law and take personal vengeance. How does this make you superior to anyone else protecting their family? Why do you feel it's ok for police to destroy other families with impunity based upon suspicions, delusions, and misunderstandings when a little patience and forbearance would resolve things without violence??

When you say"cops are only human", it might be good for you to realize the rest of us are, too, and stop holding us to a standard you yourself can't attain.

Originally posted by surfnow2
reply to post by daddio

 

traveling is not a crime. its when you violate the law when you travel it can become a crime. and with that is the potential loss of a license. i have been in several cases of people with lawyers have tried exactly what you are referring to and it is simply false. the judges give a quick teaching lesson about the 10th amendment and etc etc etc

Lawyers are part of the problem, just like legislators and cops. ALL of you are NOT doing anything FOR the people but to keep the lies and deciet going and keep the public enslaved. Lawyers are british agents as are judges. The BAR is the "British Accredited Registry", these lawyers and judges take an oath to the british crown and NOT to protect the people AT ALL.

You have no clue what you are talking about. I have beatin all kinds of citations in court, am doing it again on the 14th of March, no license, no proof of insurance, escaping license tag tax and the like. I will win, have no doubt. Maybe you should youtube some of the cases there and have a look at how many people travel with NO PLATES AND NO LICENSE.

I am not going to argue further PROPERTY RIGHTS, if you do not understand them then there is no use in going any further. An automobile IS property and the use of it for travel and transportation of private property IS a natural born RIGHT.....IT DOES NOT OWE IT'S EXISTENCE TO ANY DOCUMENT.

Driving IS an occupation as I have shown in the cases in my previous posts. Driving is employment, travel IN an automobile IS a property right (yes behind the steering wheel), just like using any other type of property WITHOUT being LICENSED.

You have failed to prove up your claim, I have proven mine with facts.

reply to post by apacheman


[Seeashrink, you seem to be a good cop, as cops go. Most of your posts are fairly intelligent, but here you show your true colors and utter lack of empathy or understanding. You threaten extra-legal violence, i.e. criminal assault, to protect your family, while denying the same to those you threaten. You seem to feel justified in in exceeding the law with impunity to protect your family.] quote

Well, thanks for the "fairly intelligent" remark, I think. I stand by that post, but I will give you an explanation since this is your focal point. If I follow someone that I know enough about to be a suspect in something, then my intent is to gather more evidence. I seldom ever do this since I have a marked SUV and the point is moot. If I do follow them there is certainly no intent to do harm to them or their families. Now, by the nature of my job, if someone follows my marked vehicle to my house as whats his name suggested, there intent is to intimidate or do harm. I in the field 12 hours at a time, there is ample opportunity to intimidate me or do harm to me while I am on the job. When you follow me home you bring the element of my family into the picture not just me. I have the same rights as you do to protect my family. There is not a court in the land that will convict a cop for protecting his family. Also, I, me personally am not threatening anyone, nor am I denying anyone the right to protect their family. I have no need for empathy or understanding in this area because I am not a bad cop. Empathy and understanding is part of my personallity and makeup, I don't have to try to be, I am.



[Cops follow people to their homes and threaten their families all the time...why do you feel yours should be immune to the threats and violence you and yours visit upon them? Everyone has a right to defend themselves and their families against violence, whether it is state-sanctioned or not. ] quote

Agreed, for bad cops. The only time I have threatened someone with violence is when they have threatened my family with violence. This has happened on several occasions, but not recently.

[One thing I've learned over time is that police are not there to protect me: they never have and never will. I've had my home broken into, I've been attacked, my family threatened. Never once have the police been helpful: in actuality, they have only added to the threat on the few occasions I, in my naievete, actually called them for assistance. Perhaps it is because I'm Native American. But I learned, and now deal with anything that comes up on my own. I well NEVER again call the police for assistance: they are too dangerously unpredictable. You never know who will show up: a good cop (rare, but possible), a steroid-drugged psycho (far more common), or just a mean, power-happy thug looking for a good time bashing someone.] quote


This is a common experience unfortunately. I have experience many of the same things that you have and I deal with bad cops everyday that I work. I attempt to train them a little every chance that I get, but like most young people, they figure that they have already forgotten more than I will ever know. I know of one such cop that will probably be demoted to a jailer position next week. I expect that he will quit. (in case semperfortis is reading this, he's not in my department so I am not giving out any trade secrets) I would be careful about NEVER calling the cops for assistance again since actions that you would take, outside of a civil lawsuit, to correct a wrong may get you in hot water.

[Police tend to forget that from the public's perspective most of them are delusional: they whine about how "dangerous" their job is and they deserve some slack for that, but the reality is that police work is some of the safest work you can have. Construction, farming, fishing, taxi driving, convenience store clerking are all more deadly than police work. Police constantly carp about how dangerous criminals are, but most never see one, and when they do, they outnumber them about 10 to 1, and far outgun them. And from the public's perspective, they aren't very honest either. They lie all the time, whether it is a small lie over a traffic ticket or the huge lies of undercover cops who cultivate and then betray the friendships they've cultivated. Either way, they are both cops. The undercover lies may be necessary, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still lies designed for betrayal. In the end you are dealing with people who lie for a living and are very good at it...how are any of us to trust such a group?]quote

If we are in an undercover role and we tell a lie to catch a drug dealer or something worse, why would that bother you if you are a good guy? Yes, many careers have a higher death rate VIA ACCIDENTS than cops do. Twice last night I travelled outside my jurisdiction to back up another officer. On the first one I went into the woods that has a labyrinth of paths only known to the bad guys in that area, with one other officer to find a guy that took a car and ran into the woods. On the second one I ran 100 mph to get where a handful of officers were dealing with a crowd of 200 people, most fighting, and the report of gunfire. We waded in and broke it up and sent everyone home. We were out numbered about 12 to 1. No one went to jail, and no one got hit by a cop. What's the difference? I do not see farmers and construction workers running toward trouble. The only people that run toward trouble are soldiers, firemen, paramedics, and cops. Do bad cops lie in court about parking tickets, etc? Yes. But they are eventually caught and they lose all credibility.

[You advise people to grow up and be responsible for their actions: I challenge you to do the same. Police are not responsible for keeping people safe. People are kept safe by their own actions. I have met more responsible citizens than responsible cops. Police excuse themselves of responsibilty all the time, even when various departments have been exposed as corrupt and criminal (LA's Rampart Division springs to mind, Chicago, Detroit, New York and Philly have all had massive corruption scandals repeatedly): it's always just a few "bad apples". Apparently they've forgotten the adage that one bad apple will spoil a barrel. Police your own ranks first, with zero tolerance for steroids (as dangerous a drug as methamphetamine), zero tolerance for lies, and zero tolerance for abuse, then and only then will you gain the public's trust. Why isn't there a "three strikes and you're out" for bad cops? Far too often, bad cops just move from one jurisdiction to another.]quote

I have to agree with this paragraph except for the part where you advise me to grow up and be responsible for my own actions. I have and that is why I can post what I post without hesistation. I have the priveledge of being a small town cop. I can police my own and I do. When I first got here some officers with a lot of booze were planning a party. I was working that night. I told them to have a good time but to not test my integrity, if they screwed up, I would take them to jail. I don't think they liked me much then, but now I'm well respected by those that are left because I shoot straight. I cannot answer for the big city cops no more than I can answer for my accestors that owned slaves. I can only make a difference where I am, and I do.

[And to come back to your quote...how are we to trust YOU seeashrink? If you feel your family is threatened you have stated you would ignore the law and take personal vengeance. How does this make you superior to anyone else protecting their family? Why do you feel it's ok for police to destroy other families with impunity based upon suspicions, delusions, and misunderstandings when a little patience and forbearance would resolve things without violence??]quote

I've answered this.

When you say"cops are only human", it might be good for you to realize the rest of us are, too, and stop holding us to a standard you yourself can't attain]quote

Yes, we are only human and I treat everyone else as such.

There has been a lot of critizism on this thread of cops. I have been amazed at some of the post that would have been deleted by a mod on any other thread. Again, I have been very forthcoming in this thread and have not hidden behind the cloak of mystery that the internet provides. I have even been challenged by a mod in a public genre as to if I'm even a cop. I gave him my office phone along with my name and invited him to call my office and speak to any officer including the Chief. For most of you, again, your minds have been made up and you don't want to be confused with the facts. The freeman have totally derailed the thread from it's original intent and not a one them were hit with an off topic delete. Personally I believe that they should have created their own thread.

I would challenge any of you to spend a couple of nights in a ride along program. I doubt that you will because that would mean learning something and growing a pair.

Seeashrink