This response originally was to another posters declaration that police navigate around warrantless searches ever day:
The Second Amendment: A Treatise
Oath Keepers: Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people.
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a
redress of grievances.
Please don't misunderstand my post - this is not an organization to which the military in general belong.
I am, and was in my last year of service; many are not but support the movement in spirit in case the organization at some point is designated a
subversive organization and they lose their careers.
Our local Sheriff is a member and has a window sticker on his explorer - the official County vehicle. I assure you he is a redneck through and through
(that is not an insult where I live rather the opposite actually) but would take issue with the charge that he does a warrantless search every day.
First of all it is not an order from on high it is just a part of his everyday duties.
However, I am supposing that you mean the search they make for their safety incident to any traffic stop?
This is not a warrantless search it is a search incidental to probable cause to detain and question you - that of you breaking the law.
They can only search what is visible in plain sight and should you not consent to a further search the LEO can not intrude further (failure to consent
is niether probable casue or resonable suspision in and of itself) - that is unless you give cues that indicate drunkenness or something that might
escalate to a further search of your sobriety or say blood splatters in the back of the vehicle – common after hunting around here – they ask,
“What’s the blood from?” The deer I took last week… “Ok, No problem.
If you are refereeing to random road blocks on New Year’s etc., I would say they are only looking for you to produce your license and registration
which you must have to legally operate a vehicle. If you do so and show no signs of drunkenness or have nothing in plain view - you have nothing to
Freemen will tell you there is a huge legal difference betweeen driving and your right to travel by any conveyance you choose as long as you obey the
law. (I choose to go a long with the licence issue becasue its eiasier and I draw a federal pension, which makes my declaration of freeman status
I got stopped only once in like the last 15 years first question of course:
"Do you know why I stopped you?" (Meantime has shining the light in the vehicle to see what’s there...for his safety)
Easy, yeah I was speeding, sorry was listening to talk radio and engrossed in the topic.... (Why lie it never pays off.)
Next question - "Do you have any weapons on you on or in the car?" Yes, a 1911 under my jacket.
"Please keep your hands on the wheel sir..." ) NO issue I'd say the same...
"Do you have your permit on you and may I see your License and Registration Please?' Sure..No problem...
"Please do it slowly for me, where I can see your hands at all times..." Of course...same warning I'd give - could be a crazy guy after all.
"I gave him my Military ID since my DL was from another state, my registration, and CCW permit. At no time did he ask me to disarm myself or to see
10 Minutes later he comes back and says, "Major, thanks for your service, please watch your speed more closely in the future, this is an area we have
had a lot of accidents lately. Thanks for your cooperation."
No warrantless search there...
Then there was this advice:
Originally posted by lastrebel
reply to post by Golf66
They have ways to get around "no search" if you opt out you get to sit on the side of the road for 2 hours waiting for the drug dog to get
there. I am biker and since i retired i just travel around the country and get this often. I have had it happen 3 times crossing one
state............but again I have had them just ask for my info, be polite and send me on my way......but that leaves the question of why i was pulled
over to begin with............which no one asks because that is a great way to get an unneeded ticket.
It is what it is......they see someone with long hair, beard and tattoos and want to "check you out" which is profiling. That flies in the face
warrentless search...........if only by the spirit if not the letter.
My bold for emphasis.
Actually, I would recommend if that happens again for you to ask him if you are under arrest...
If he says no...You can just say thanks; pack up your stuff and go. If he says yes, you can say on what charge? If he has no answer then ask again
until he says no.... then pack your stuff and go. If he delays say you consider it harassment and unreasonable detention.
You cannot be detained in the way you described to wait for 2 hours a search dog to come (unless you match some suspect in a crime or a real reason
(intuition is not a reason) he had to believe – odor behavior whatever that you had drugs - which only you know the answer to.
Remember the burden of proof is his and you hold all the cards if you know your rights - state that you are being held against your will and unlesshe
intends to arrest you for some violation please ask for the name of his desk sergeant and the number - Depending on the weather a very short time
could be considered reasonable.
Also, you have to realize that the way you describe yourself (some may interpret that [wrongly] choice as matching a biker gang member profile) could
indeed be the profile of someone they are looking for at the time?
Not that short haired people in cars don't commit crime but maybe if you got stopped 3 times in one state you matched the description of someone for
whom they are searching?
Specifically referencing your point that I made bold: Pro-tip, he knows why you were stopped and he will likely ask you so he can use your admission
Don't be afraid of the admission, (be honest) you have not been Mirandized at that point so it is inadmissible in court anyway. Just remind the Judge
(Likely a magistrate not a real judge, that you were not mirandized.)
If he doesn't ask you, you ask him because he is an LEO and anything he says is admissible regardless (again get it one tape)
If he doesn't have a reason or wont tell you, ask if you are under arrest - if not say thanks and drive off. Nothing at all he can do about it. Any
further intrusion is harassment and he is drifting into "loosing my job teritory".
Note: the more of this transaction you have on tape the better.
Might be harder for you because of the manner in which you chose to dress, (no one said all choices are easy ones; poor coices have consequences...not
a jugement just a fact) but if you know your rights and are firm and respectful you should get justice - if not you will get a nice fat settlement
eventually in the end the officer will be working at NAPPA.
edit on 13/1/2011 by Golf66 because: Mistake on my part -