Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
reply to post by Jwest06

 

1) You were born into slavery by your parents and grandparents who fought for your right to be born in a nation that was better from whatever they had to endure. Don't like it? Move somewhere else. It is your freedom to choose wherever you want to live.

Good, you admit that I was born into slavery. The problem with your idea of moving somewhere else for freedom is that freedom does not exist on this planet. It is a concept far lost on human beings. So, what am I to do? I'll take my own freedom wherever I happen to be because that's my right as an individual.

2) Breaking traffic laws that are written based on safety issues, may not have a victim every time. The laws are an attempt to eliminate victims altogether. You may not see going through a red light as serious. Until you smash and kill a pedestrian, T-bone a driver EXPECTING you to stop at your red light. Or, speeding...get a blow out doing more than the speedlimit, ok...control your car from not jumping the curb, crossing the center line and creating victims. If you think you are a victim to rules now...Tell that to someone who lost a loved one, to a speeder, a red light runner, basic traffic violation turned ugly. You aren't a victim. You are an armchair complainer.

And you missed the point altogether. My last message clearly implied if I harmed someone or their property, I was responsible. That is a crime but regardless I would do my part to help the individual I harmed with or without the law system. This does not account for 90% of the other time where nothing happened. I still wouldn't be happy about going to a corrupt court to try and help someone I would have helped anyway.

However, this also happens to be a real crime instead of a commercial crime which is just a fraudulent way of collecting taxes.

Originally posted by Jwest06

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
reply to post by Jwest06

 

1) You were born into slavery by your parents and grandparents who fought for your right to be born in a nation that was better from whatever they had to endure. Don't like it? Move somewhere else. It is your freedom to choose wherever you want to live.

Good, you admit that I was born into slavery. The problem with your idea of moving somewhere else for freedom is that freedom does not exist on this planet. It is a concept far lost on human beings. So, what am I to do? I'll take my own freedom wherever I happen to be because that's my right as an individual.

2) Breaking traffic laws that are written based on safety issues, may not have a victim every time. The laws are an attempt to eliminate victims altogether. You may not see going through a red light as serious. Until you smash and kill a pedestrian, T-bone a driver EXPECTING you to stop at your red light. Or, speeding...get a blow out doing more than the speedlimit, ok...control your car from not jumping the curb, crossing the center line and creating victims. If you think you are a victim to rules now...Tell that to someone who lost a loved one, to a speeder, a red light runner, basic traffic violation turned ugly. You aren't a victim. You are an armchair complainer.

And you missed the point altogether. My last message clearly implied if I harmed someone or their property, I was responsible. That is a crime but regardless I would do my part to help the individual I harmed with or without the law system. This does not account for 90% of the other time where nothing happened. I still wouldn't be happy about going to a corrupt court to try and help someone I would have helped anyway.

I didn't miss the point. You are basing what you believe to be the way all humans should believe. If that were the case, you'd be 100% right.
But it isn't even close to how people work. Period.

You are right, slave.
The only freedom you'd have is outside any populace. Alone. Inject people, and then rules get made, enforcers of the rules need to get paid...nobody works for free.

So I guess I don't have the answer that you would accept. But I think you don't either.. I just work with what I got. It isn't a loathsome existence. In fact I'm pretty satisfied. I'll probably die that way. In either case, what is the point? You think my or your projected existence of 80 ish years means anything to anyone outside of the people who know us? No. Not to any NWO, or government, there are 7 billion people crammed on this place. Nothing we do, will change the outcome. NOTHING. We still die. The end.

Originally posted by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by Jwest06

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
reply to post by Jwest06

 

1) You were born into slavery by your parents and grandparents who fought for your right to be born in a nation that was better from whatever they had to endure. Don't like it? Move somewhere else. It is your freedom to choose wherever you want to live.

Good, you admit that I was born into slavery. The problem with your idea of moving somewhere else for freedom is that freedom does not exist on this planet. It is a concept far lost on human beings. So, what am I to do? I'll take my own freedom wherever I happen to be because that's my right as an individual.

2) Breaking traffic laws that are written based on safety issues, may not have a victim every time. The laws are an attempt to eliminate victims altogether. You may not see going through a red light as serious. Until you smash and kill a pedestrian, T-bone a driver EXPECTING you to stop at your red light. Or, speeding...get a blow out doing more than the speedlimit, ok...control your car from not jumping the curb, crossing the center line and creating victims. If you think you are a victim to rules now...Tell that to someone who lost a loved one, to a speeder, a red light runner, basic traffic violation turned ugly. You aren't a victim. You are an armchair complainer.

And you missed the point altogether. My last message clearly implied if I harmed someone or their property, I was responsible. That is a crime but regardless I would do my part to help the individual I harmed with or without the law system. This does not account for 90% of the other time where nothing happened. I still wouldn't be happy about going to a corrupt court to try and help someone I would have helped anyway.

I didn't miss the point. You are basing what you believe to be the way all humans should believe. If that were the case, you'd be 100% right.
But it isn't even close to how people work. Period.

Not quite chief, I'm just stating what I'd do because it's the right thing for me to do. I do what virtue allows me to do.

You are right, slave.
The only freedom you'd have is outside any populace. Alone. Inject people, and then rules get made, enforcers of the rules need to get paid...nobody works for free.

So I guess I don't have the answer that you would accept. But I think you don't either.. I just work with what I got. It isn't a loathsome existence. In fact I'm pretty satisfied. I'll probably die that way. In either case, what is the point? You think my or your projected existence of 80 ish years means anything to anyone outside of the people who know us? No. Not to any NWO, or government, there are 7 billion people crammed on this place. Nothing we do, will change the outcome. NOTHING. We still die. The end.

Also not the point. People should stand up for their rights and if they choose not to then that's not my problem. I'm not out to make a difference, just out to be free.

Originally posted by Jwest06


Also not the point. People should stand up for their rights and if they choose not to then that's not my problem. I'm not out to make a difference, just out to be free.

And may the force be with you.

This thread is worn thin.

The main point: Don't be a dink to cops. Same for the Mcdonalds drive through kid that effed up your order. Just don't be a dink, and you should do well in life. haha.

I'm only 19 and have had my experiences with good and bad cops..when I was 13 I had an experience with a bad one. I was biking home from a friends at just after midnight. I had this cop pull up right beside me and demanded I stop. I was did as he asked. He then stopped his car, got out immediately and came walking over towards me in a real assertive way. They way he approached me it made me feel like i had just commited some huge crime. He then asked me," What are you doing biking around so late?" I replied how I was coming home from a friends and I wasn't aware of any law against being out to late..well that sure pissed him off...I asked him why he was pulling me over and his response to me was, "Don't be a smartass and to act my age" now I was a bit of a troublemaker but I knew my rights. I told him how I have the right to know why he is stopping me and questioning me. He continued to tell me to act my age and at one time told me I was acting like a 3 year old...I started to get pissed off because I knew I had done nothing wrong and he was clearly harassing me. He finally said how I matched the description of a kid who had broken into a house and asked to search my bag..The way he was treating me I wanted to ask him for a warrant but I had nothing to hide and didn't feel like spending hours in a police station...even if it would make him look like an idoit..When he saw I had nothing and was going back to his car I said, " I just wanted to know why you were pulling me over, I have a right to know that." He told me to shutup and then left...I found out days later he was the cheif of police!! some cheif eh..With that said I know of some good cops. One had the chance to put like 7 charges on me when me a buddy got stopped outside a party drinking with the car on..underage and we had drugs also..I talked my way out of it but this cop was nice enough to not ding me for the open alcohol, public drinking, possession or underage drinking..He even gave me a ride home and didn't walk me to my house or anything..He was a nice cop

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

I don't carry a tazer, but if I did and wore it on my gun side, I could see it happening in the heat of the moment. Just so you know, a guy in culfs can kill you. I do carry a tazer in my car and if I think I am going to need it on a call, I stick it in my cargo or back pocket.
Seeashrink.

Originally posted by Jwest06
If I get pulled over for breaking a traffic law:

1). What contract did I sign consenting to said rules that were made for me? Where exactly did I give away my rights as a human being? Being a slave to a system I didn't sign up for contradicts my constitutional right to liberty.

2). I'd like to know who the victim of the alleged crime was besides myself. If there is no victim and I've harmed neither a person nor a person's property, the best of luck explaining to me who exactly I'm defending myself against. I don't take kindly to tax collectors on a power trip.

Truth be told, if I wasn't insistent upon sticking around and watching this world end, I would have played the self-defence game a long time ago. If someone is threatening you at gunpoint to enslave you to the Prison Industrial Complex, that's a valid reason to defend your self. However, the second I try that it becomes "assault". If I had got to play the game of life over again, a pocket of suicide pills is preferrable to a gun. If you pull out a gun while being chased, your life depends on how quick your draw is. If some Nazi thinks he wants to fist fight while screaming at you then you have way better odds.

Will the ignorance never end? Everytime I hear one of you guys talking about defending yourself physically from a cop that you don't feel has a right to stop you, for whatever reason, I cringe. You swing on some young hothead cop, he is liable to kill you because of his inexperience. You swing on some old cop like me and he is liable to do the same thing because he wants to go home that night and he knows that you are a third his age and your stamina is a lot longer than his. Either way, it's a bad ending for everyone.
You sound like a bunch of school children. Grow up and step into the real world. Contribute something to society to make it better and quit this rediculous crap.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Demoncreeper


I agree with most of what you said, but again there really are no "laws" to speak of, merely regulations, and I have NO PROBLM with regulations, making it fair for everyone. But unfortunately that is not the way it is.

When the world will be responsible for ALL of their actions, then we will have a civilized society, no wars, and no need for police "protection" or 'ensurement". I do not need the police to protect me or my family nor do I need them on the roadway as I am a very responsible individual. I work hard for what I have and I do share, with some.

BUT.. I will NEVER accept any offer for a police/policy enforcement officer to explain TO ME My natural, inherent and inalienable rights when stopped. I HAVE JURISDICTION and the POWER and the AUTHORITY. Not the officer.

Again, Article 1 section 1 of my states constitution RESTRICTS the authority of the government and protects my rights, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ME, but is supposed to ensure that I, as a flesh and blood living soul, are not messed with frivolously.

Thanks for your response, I believe it to be genuine.

reply to post by seeashrink


so you think citizens should just let the cops
beat them to death?
taze them to death?
shoot them to death?
suffocate them to death in pepper spray?

maybe we should all just jump out in front of your cars while you are speeding down the road on the way to the donut shop for your sugar and caffeine fix. then that will take care of everyone's problem?

hahaha. you guy's i swear. whats wrong? cant you take an ass whipen like a real man?
always gotta hide behind that badge and gun and justify your abuses with backup.

you know, at the moment i see law enforcement load their cars and their organizations up and raid the white house, the government, wall street, and every single corrupt institution in this country, and make a serious effort to bring justice to and for the people. you're no better than them and cannot respect

SORRY.

doyourjob
or seeashrink

after much reflection on the matter, i have come to realize something. all the officer was trying to suggest in his original post, is to be civil, act accordingly. when we (the freemen) do not act in a civil manner, then how are we to say we are deserving of civil rights. we are no better than the oppressors, when we share their feelings, and actions with lack of compassion. policemen are just men and woman. mortal humans, no different from you nor i. they are mislead, just as we and many others are, and have been mislead. hold them not accountable for what they do out of ignorance. and back on the security issue. would this path not benefit only the wealthy. indeed it would. for power would be in possession of the highest bidder. and their are far more wicked wealthy men than good. wealth is greed, do not forget that. and greed is wicked, do not forget that.

Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death.

reply to post by commdogg

Aside from what I view as a fallacy, requiring this vision of yours to rely on the kindness of human spirit, there is another flaw.

Nearly every, if not all, western nations are made up of people who vote for governments who provide welfare though taxation. If most people think it is a good thing to hand over a portion of their income to the less fortunate I don't believe we should have to threaten everyone with violence to achieve it. It's immoral. It turns the act of charity into an act of resentment instead of pleasure.

So assuming this system is in place, and private security abounds, who now has authority to prosecute criminals? Who makes laws, prosecutes criminals, and imposes sentencing? Who ensures these proceedings and actions are carried out with due process of law? Don't tell me another series of companies...

Laws don't prevent crimes, I see no need for them. Punishments do not rehabilitate criminals, they do the opposite. The main reason we punish criminals is for revenge. In my opinion the thirst for revenge is a fairly primitive emotion and not of much use in modern society. One day the truth about the universe and the power of love will be common. (I'm not saying I wouldn't feel rage if someone close to me was murdered.)

I know that way of thinking is too far out there for most to be comfortable with so I would also be happy with an elected council run on donations who propose laws (and corresponding typical punishments if you must) which are voted on. The only laws allowed to be created are those banning crimes which have a victim, as those are the only true crimes.

reply to post by LegalTender

and back on the security issue. would this path not benefit only the wealthy. indeed it would. for power would be in possession of the highest bidder.

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean by this. Do you think some rich tyrant will employ a large security force to patrol the streets of the city where he lives so that he can make up his own silly laws and have his employees attempt to enforce his rules on the general public? I really can't see it happening, it would be impossible to achieve and a ridiculously expensive waste of money.

wealth is greed, do not forget that.

There is nothing wrong with either. You typed that from a computer with an internet connection. Relative to the entire population of earth, you're pretty wealthy.

Without greed or wanting more we would still be sitting in caves with stone tools.

Its funny

Both sides in this issue are mainly just asking to be treated with a little respect and not be treated like the enemy

Its a shame we cant seem to agree on this issue..........lol

reply to post by lastrebel


You guys press on. I think I'm done with it. The whole purpose of the thread has been compromised. I appreciate all the replies; positive, negative, intelligent, and the ignorant. To my fellow officers on this thread, stay safe. I know what you are up against. To the rest of you, you stay safe as well. Heaven only knows what we are all up against in the big picture. Other than that, I'll see you guys in the forums.
Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


Me too those were my last words on the subject here, thanks for the view from the "other side"

reply to post by seeashrink


Just remember who pays for your "job".

We do.

Originally posted by Azp420
reply to post by commdogg

 

Aside from what I view as a fallacy, requiring this vision of yours to rely on the kindness of human spirit, there is another flaw.

Nearly every, if not all, western nations are made up of people who vote for governments who provide welfare though taxation. If most people think it is a good thing to hand over a portion of their income to the less fortunate I don't believe we should have to threaten everyone with violence to achieve it. It's immoral. It turns the act of charity into an act of resentment instead of pleasure.

So assuming this system is in place, and private security abounds, who now has authority to prosecute criminals? Who makes laws, prosecutes criminals, and imposes sentencing? Who ensures these proceedings and actions are carried out with due process of law? Don't tell me another series of companies...

Laws don't prevent crimes, I see no need for them. Punishments do not rehabilitate criminals, they do the opposite. The main reason we punish criminals is for revenge. In my opinion the thirst for revenge is a fairly primitive emotion and not of much use in modern society. One day the truth about the universe and the power of love will be common. (I'm not saying I wouldn't feel rage if someone close to me was murdered.)

I know that way of thinking is too far out there for most to be comfortable with so I would also be happy with an elected council run on donations who propose laws (and corresponding typical punishments if you must) which are voted on. The only laws allowed to be created are those banning crimes which have a victim, as those are the only true crimes.

reply to post by LegalTender

 

and back on the security issue. would this path not benefit only the wealthy. indeed it would. for power would be in possession of the highest bidder.

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean by this. Do you think some rich tyrant will employ a large security force to patrol the streets of the city where he lives so that he can make up his own silly laws and have his employees attempt to enforce his rules on the general public? I really can't see it happening, it would be impossible to achieve and a ridiculously expensive waste of money.

wealth is greed, do not forget that.

There is nothing wrong with either. You typed that from a computer with an internet connection. Relative to the entire population of earth, you're pretty wealthy.

Without greed or wanting more we would still be sitting in caves with stone tools.

edit on 18-1-2011 by Azp420 because: (no reason given)

it is a wast of time and effort to speak with someone who refuses to argue.

reply to post by LegalTender


Huh?

reply to post by Azp420


Great job on totally confounding these guys! From this thread and many others it is clear the most cops refuse to even consider that they are wrongly harming, extorting, stealing imprisoning, and even in some cases murdering thier fellow citizens who have harmed no one all under the guise of protecting them and doing thier jobs.

Anything that challenges thier false paradigm is dismissed out of hand as ignorant or delusional etc. Case cites and actual law quoted to them is ignored. They don't even get a clue when so many people come on these threads and express thier disdain for them and just think most are criminals when in reality most of us are honest citizens who have never committed a crime.

I want to say great job to Daddio and a couple others on the thread who did a good job of trying to explain things to these guys amicably, to bad it all fell on deaf ears. One day the people will have had enough and stand up and put a stop to it.

reply to post by PlautusSatire
Law enforcement didn't creat civilization, it is the necessary tool that allowed civilization to be created by keeping those who would disrupt it via violence and larceny in check. Law enforcement is the first act of juris prudence, without juris prudence all you have is a mob fighting over scraps. Not much gets done if you must fight off hoards of people who decide they want what you have. Cities could never exist because too many people in one place with no rules would NEVER work. In Roman times people were crucified for stealing a loaf of bread. You should be greatful that you live in a time and in a place where food is so abundant and cheap that the penalty for stealing food amounts to a slap on the wrist. Back then, one crop failure and thousands died of starvation and disease. That reality made stealing food a big deal. If you trust in human kindness so completely, I know a dark corner in east L.A. for you. Stand there some night with a little gold showing and see what happens.

reply to post by seeashrink


what an idiot he cringes because he wants to go home to our loved ones and make sure we cant defend our selves your the enemy

abuse of authority you also have no rights when a cop decides he doesnt want you to have rights no is going to protect you from him. the cop is supposed to protect you from himself the cops dont even know the law they know bull# of they dont study and they all act like they have law degrees

funny he says they are the only ones who contribute to society wow amazing they elevate themselves

and Hawkie and many others you guys are genius way to let them have it but they dont have the brain power to understand nor the moral fortitude the Nazi SS didnt think they did wrong either

cops you guys are in the wrong business and there needs to be a huge LEO cultural change and stop to the revenue generating