Christ's promise for eternal life.

I think you should read my previous post....
I'm not real sure what kind of answer you are looking for?
Do you want someone to tell you that there is only one way to get into heaven, or many?? We cannot provide that for you..only you can provide that information yourself.
I read the bible quite often and am often confused about a few things I read. The bible is not meant to be a book of answers..if it were life would be so much easier, now wouldn't it? You can say for instance..AH well so what if I commit murder-Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins anyway, so I'll go to heaven no matter what I do. Or you could say-I commited adultery, I may as well forget going to heaven. Both of these are far from the truth. It is merely up to God whether you are going to heaven or not. Noone, not even the bible can give you this info. It is a book to "help" you make your journey there and it's up to you to decide how you read it and what you make of it. Sometimes too..the best answers to life come from withen. So it helps to take a long hard look deep withen yourself, maybe the answer you are searching for is there?

From what I understand, there are several "categories" of how souls will be judged: The category of "Never having heard of Christianity" would be judged according to how those souls lived their lives. Those who led basically good lives that followed the tenants (even though they never *knew* the tenants) would still be allowed into Heaven...Those who led lives against the basic tenants would be chastised, then brought into Heaven once their souls had been made pure again.

very well worded MD!!
There is hope..lol We actually agree on something

MSimpson,

Your premises are good but the argument is unsound. Allow me to clarify.

The argument ought to go like this:

Premise #1.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (JOHN 14:6-9)

In Premise #1, Jesus explanes to Thomas and Philip that He IS God. The Son and the Father are one. Therefore, to learn from Christ's example is to learn from God. To worship God is to worship Christ.

Premise #2.

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL THY MIND; AND THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, and who is my neighbour? (LUKE 10:25-29)

In Premise #2 the lawyer is caught in his own game; he states the first of the Ten Commandments, "Thou shalt have no other God before me" and that that one ought to "love thy neighbour as thyself", which neatly sums up the ten commandments - since one can not steal, commit adultery, murder, etc, oneself, to treat others as you treat yourself is to follow the commandments.

Conclusion.

The only way to the Father (God) is through the Son (God). They are one and the same. None of these statements contradict one another. The only difference is that Thomas and Philip ask the way to the Father and the lawyer asks the way to eternal life - those who are elected to meet the Father will be immortal and those who die the death will never meet Him. The answer is the same in both cases - worship God, that is, Jesus Christ.

MSimpson,

I went through the same thing you're going through right now. I hung around with an evangelical church group when I was a teen that taught that all non-believers were bound for hell - while these materialistic, gun-touting, happy-happy, joy-joy, feel-good, hate-mongering, bigot thumpers were going to heaven. These people wouldn't give a penny to a homeless man or woman, though they'd tithe to the church. They came from the suburbs, and prayed for their fellow 'Christians' in the suburbs, and never lifted a hand to help the poor or needy... I think you get the idea, so I'll stop my rant.

Here is an argument that I hope will help you:

P#1. A Christian is someone that worships God (Christ), and attempts, wholeheartedly, to emulate the example and life of Christ (ie, following the commandments - love thy God and do unto thy neighbour...).

P#2. There are men and women out there that call themselves Christians but don't do P#1. "Ye shall know them by their works." Have you seen them give to the poor? Spread the Word in the innercity? Are they wealthy "Sunday Christians" that are pious one day out of the week and yet work the crap out of their minimum-wage-earning employees during the other six days...

P#3. There are men and women out there who are not Christian and who should not be hated because they are not Christian. God loves everyone, and has extended His Grace (the period to right ourselves) to everyone. Whenever you hear a 'Christian' put down a muslim, non-believer, or whatever else, remind yourself (and maybe even that person) that one should "judge not, lest ye yourself be judged" and that "vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord". If you condemn someone, you pretend you are God. God really, really doesn't like it when we pretend we're Him. "Every man will be judged according to his ways"... one Christian is a nasty person, another is Mother Theresa ... one Hindu is Gandhi, another just bombed an Islamic mosque...

If (P1) a Christian is someone that worships God, follows God's holy law, and emulates the life of Christ then it follows that (P2) people that don't do these things - even if they call themselves 'Christian' - are not Christians. If (P3) Christ said that we shouldn't judge one another, and that vengeance was His, then we should reserve judgement whenever possible.

My advice to you is to continue reading the Bible (though you really ought to get the King James version) and to pray to God for guidance and education. There are janitors out there with a greater understanding of scripture than most priests. Leave the dogma of church and man and embrace the instruction of God.

Why serve anyone but the highest? He created you and loves you. "If your son asked you for a loaf of bread, would you give him a stone?" Jesus has PROMISED that, if we ask Him for guidance (knock), he will teach us.

Peace be upon you,

-�-

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (JOHN 14:6-9)

This is the same thing as when Jesus said "I and the Father are One."

This can easily refer to him being one to humans. The goodness, love, etc.

I saw the following on another topic; care to explain them and how they fit into "I and the Father are One."?


"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." - Mark 10:18

"I do nothing of myself." - John 8:28

"And the father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form." - John 5:37

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent me." - John 6:38

"My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me." - John 7:16

"I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." - John 13:16

"My doctrine are not Mine, but His who sent Me." - John 7:16

"My Father is greater than I." - John 14:28


Thanks.

Here goes...

1. And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus, by asking "why callest thou me good?" is challenging the man and those around Him to recognize the deity of Christ. This is not a negation of Christ's goodness; it is a proof, if He is good, that he is God.

or...

Jesus is negating His goodness (and personal deity), admitting that even He is corrupted and therefore, less good than God.

I've struggled with this one, too.

I would venture a guess by saying that by serving Christ and following His doctrine, you follow God - the one that taught Christ that doctrine in the first place. You are, in essence, serving both at once - serving the King and God. What is the Father's becomes the Son's, and whoever the Son chooses to partake in the inheritence.

Whether Christ is one-and-same as God... I believe they are. Christ inherited everything the Father has, and therefore, must be omniscient and omnipotent. This does not mean there are three seperate deities (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) that all vye for control. They are simply (to our limited, linear perspective) different facets of the same being.

Of course, being as small, petty, and limited in understanding as I am, I can't hope to explain it in a manner that would do this subject justice. How can a human describe God? Must be akin to a cockroach describing a human...

Peace be upon you,

-�-

Originally posted by Savonarola
Here goes...

1. And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus, by asking "why callest thou me good?" is challenging the man and those around Him to recognize the deity of Christ. This is not a negation of Christ's goodness; it is a proof, if He is good, that he is God.

or...

Jesus is negating His goodness (and personal deity), admitting that even He is corrupted and therefore, less good than God.

I've struggled with this one, too.

I would venture a guess by saying that by serving Christ and following His doctrine, you follow God - the one that taught Christ that doctrine in the first place. You are, in essence, serving both at once - serving the King and God. What is the Father's becomes the Son's, and whoever the Son chooses to partake in the inheritence.

Whether Christ is one-and-same as God... I believe they are. Christ inherited everything the Father has, and therefore, must be omniscient and omnipotent.

-�-

You can't really explain the first verse I posted, why don't you try the rest? Btw by saying Christ inherited everything the Father has you are clearly separating them as well. According to my christian friends God had to let his son go through pain for sins of all humanity. Funny you mention omnipotence. If Jesus had to go through terrible pain for humanity's sins, God cannot be omnipotent. Just as humanity was created, sins can be erased, there is no limit to God's power my friend. "My Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

MSimpson,

I will ask you to clarify your argument. Please tell us what you are trying to prove/ what you want to know. The clearer you are with your request, the better we are able to answer your query.

You said, "You can't really explain the first verse I posted, why don't you try the rest".

I think I did a pretty good job of explaining the first verse - and I gave two conflicting interpretations of what it might mean. If you're angry because I (a) can't know for sure whether my initial interpretation is correct or (b), because I admitted I didn't know, than I can't help you. I am only human and am not privvy to all the mysteries of the universe, let alone the mysteries of God.

"Btw by saying Christ inherited everything the Father has you are clearly separating them as well. "

I explaned the reasons for this argument clearly enough. Let me try it again. 1. The Son, the Father, and the Holy Ghost, are simply three facets of the same being. "Everything that is the Father's is mine, and that which is mine belongs to the Father." Therefore, whatever God knows, Christ knows. Whatever God can do, Christ can do. And because they share the same point of view, that is, they are both absolutely righteous, they will always share the same will and judgement. We just tend to think of Jesus as a flesh-and-blood being whereas God is spirit (or more than spirit). We err in thinking they are seperate entities.

"Funny you mention omnipotence. If Jesus had to go through terrible pain for humanity's sins, God cannot be omnipotent."

Give me one reason why. Who are you, the created, to challenge the creator and His ways? Can you see the beginning of the universe to the end in the blink of an eye? Can you see the inner workings of your own body, how your lungs expand and contract and your heart beats, all without any effort on your part? Can you go down further, to understand those most basic pieces of matter that make up your body, and my body, and every physical piece of the universe? Can you change your height, stop the war in Iraq, or create a universe of your own by taking thought?

No? Then maybe you ought to be happy that you exist and that you've been blessed with the faculties to learn some of the mysteries. You don't know everything because you were meant not to.

And maybe, just maybe, God did need to be represented in human form to understand our plight. "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me." Perhaps God needed to, for even a split second, understand doubt.

-�-

Christ is the only way.

beautifully said micheal. christ is the only way. just love him with all your heart!!!!!!

"Arguing the Bible with a non-believer accomplishes nothing. It's like wrestling a pig, you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it."

Hehe...that is priceless!

I AM such a pig, and you're absolutely right, hehe....I have some friends that are extremely religious, so much so in fact, that they go to school for it. We both look forward to our routine debates (as I am a devout non-believer).

Thing is, MSimpson may be a lot like myself...not religious, but finding religion fascinating nonetheless... I believe the intention of the original post was more to point out how the Bible (often) contradicts itself (an inevitability as it was written by many authors), and then see what discussions sprang from it.

when it says to love your God with all your strength and all your might he is sitll talking about the only way to have eternal life is to accept that jesus died on the cross for you. you seem to be turning the story around.