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Originally posted by dontreally
Israel was founded on secular western democratic principals.
I make the distinction between 'secular' to point out that the true Israel should be a model of its namesake; Jacob, who was than called Israel. Until Israel is a religious Israel rooted in the Torah, it will forever be an abomination to the rest of the world.
One has to know himself and BE himself in order for others to like him. The Jewish people have survived the 2 thousand years of exile and endless persecution ONLY because of their Judaism.
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
And how is that anymore authentic?
You realize just 80 years ago the entire area which we now call Jordan, a bit of Iraq, Lebanon and Israel were all called "british mandate for palestine"...These states arent even real; theyre creations of the british. And look at all the internal problems in each of these counties.
NO Country can be built unless its constituents share a heritage, language, culture and religion. If they dont meet this criteria than THAT state is doomed to failure.
I do agree that the pagan excuse which currently controls Israel is doomed to fail. However, it will be replaced by an authentic Jewish state; the type which stood for 1000 years from 1000 BCE to 70 CE. From which the Holy bible is based on. A religious Israel rooted in the Torah will last.
That dream hasnt gone anywhere. Judaism = Zionism. Zion means 'marker' in Hebrew, and refers to the temple mount. Secular zionism is an abomination hashed up by the illuminists. Its no coincidence that this charade grew out of the haskala - the jewish enlightenment which was concomitant with the european enlightenment. Both cultures were driven by paganism; which we call romanticism. Which christianity helped pave the way with its subtle antinomianism.
Egypt,
My statement is that a nation cannot exist based on one and only one factor. Can you imagine if the existence of the United States hinged on it being "The White Nation"? its inability to maintain that status would become absolutely farcical.
Except there wasn't a Jewish state that stood from 1000 BCE to 70 CE. Rather there was a confederation of Jewish tribes that stood for about a century, before fracturing into two warring kingdoms; Judah, which lasted roughly 300 years, and Israel, which lasted about 200 years (It was conquered by the Assyrians and their Judean vassals). After the Babylonians took over, there would not be another independent Jewish state in the region for nearly 400 years, when the Maccabees founded the Hasmonean dynasty, which lasted a century.
Apparently a religious Israel rooted in the Torah is bound to engage in intercene tribal war before finally being squished by expert cavalry. So is a religious Judah rooted in the Torah, but that's rather beside the point.
Originally posted by muzzleflash
I would tend to agree that our wacky leaders / overlords / illuminati masters are setting up Israel as the enemy of the entire world.
This will allow them to play out their sick fantasy of reliving the prophecies.
Well, it may not be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but it doesn't matter.
Here is a thread I wrote about how Zechariah 12 predicts the entire world will attack Israel all at once, and by my personal interpretation, Israel uses advanced Electronic Warfare capabilities and utterly defeats the entire invasion miraculously.
The scripture actually details an account that sounds just like electronic warfare, I quote and explain in detail in the thread.
Zechariah 12 predictions
Originally posted by dontreally
Oh yes Egypt is a HUGE success. Tell that to the shiite, sunnis, coptic christians, muslim brotherhood etc. Egypt ts perhaps the worst example of a state created by the west which is constantly embroiled in sectarian violence.
That principle appears to work in essentially secular states. Protestantism made this possible.. India, Russia...They were already antinomian enough to accept the multiculturalism and consumerism of anglo-american culture..... but in the Muslim world?
Ya right. It fails in every example and theres a good reason for that.
In a ironic way, I suppose us religious should thank the muslims for balancing out the crazy moral relativistism of the secular west.
I do appreciate what the west has done for the world. And i think all of us should be. But as for its 'culture' and system of ethics; ie; its moral relativism.... The world can do without that... Every people should be allowed to pursue their beliefs in the context of whats called in Judaism the 7 laws of noah (which is what education day in the US is based upon)....
The US constitution is a good template which all nations should adapt to their own countries.. But i really dont think the imperialist Europeans want to allow a Jewish state with a uniquely Jewish identity. They want everyone essentially the same; without distinctions. Sorta like how this culture has blurred gender differences.
And where exactly do you get this pseudo history from? I guess its defendable when the Waqf in Jerusalem is involved in excavating the Temple mount and disposing of its archeological contents; much to the dismay of archeologists. Archeologists angry at destruction of Temple artifacts..And yet no word in the western media about this. How amazing.
"The Waqf has acted terribly, taking thousands of tons of artifacts from the First Temple, the Second Temple, as well as Muslim artifacts, and throwing them away," Dr Eilat Mazor, from the Hebrew University, told Ynetnews.
What youve been led to believe is all politics. Why not just trust the chronology in the bible? well. I guess that could be feasible if Israels government allowed archeologists to dig at the temple mount. Instead they give the Waqf license to hide the truth of Solomons temple.
Where do you even get the idea that the ancient Israelites were involved in tribal warfare? Is that what your anthropology professor taught? Ridiculous.
And what makes you think that todays Jews would be involved in internecine conflict? Orthodox Judaism is actually pretty congenial with one another.
There is no serious conflict that would erupt in war between Judaisms religious. The problem is with the secular elite and their propaganda. If Jews had a choice in the matter, they would undoubtedly return to Torah; as more and more Jews everyday. See 'Ba'al Teshuva' movement.
Also. Check out this statistic. 70% of Israeli 2nd graders are Haredi. This is partly why the Knesset passed the 'grandfather clause' allowing non Jews with a Jewish grandfather to immigrate to Israel; to balance the vote towards labor and likud and prevent a religious coalition that would destroy the British vision of a federalized middle east.
In anycase, anyone who knows anything about Israeli politics know things are changing.
I think you may be on the diametrical side of the issue. But. You will see. You will see how serious this is.edit on 14-1-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)edit on 14-1-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by dontreally
I'm a big Israel fan people try to say that muslims are indigenous but people conveniently forgot who occupied the land in bible times.
Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by dontreally
When you give countries like China the same vote as Canada on human rights, or countries like Turkey the same vote as Sweden on treatment of minorities, and then on top of it all you give a few specific countries the right to veto anything from votes to bathroom passes you get a system that's not only flawed at its core, but also ineffective, meaningless, and ridden with politics and agendas.
They might as well have taken all of us and let us vote on these issues.
They might as well have taken that world cup octopus, at least that thing made some sense.
I can accept some condemnation of Israel, hell, I can even understand why there would be a lot of condemnation towards Israel, but that can't be it, Israel can not be the only country on the spot, that makes no sense by no stretch of logic- The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is horrible, but it is *minuscule* in comparison to past and ongoing world conflicts.
A bunch of Eastern Europeans certainly didn't.
People conveniently forget that most Jews in Israel have no ethnic claim to the land.
Are people in Israel really that indoctrinated?
The problem is not that you're on the spot
the problem is you can do as you please at will without any repercussions
It seems to be a running trend with bigots to make themselfs appear to be victim of a situation.
Israel personifies this perfectly.
France gets unjust excessive hatred, Turkey gets unjust excessive hatred, Venezuela gets unjust excessive hatred. Israel gets nowhere near the amount it merits.
If Israel was held to the same standards as everybody else you wouldn't exist as we know it. If some foreign country was doing what Israel did, we'd be bombing them.
You poor victim you.
Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by dontreally
I'm a big Israel fan people try to say that muslims are indigenous but people conveniently forgot who occupied the land in bible times.
Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by dontreally
I'm a big Israel fan people try to say that muslims are indigenous but people conveniently forgot who occupied the land in bible times.
Originally posted by Griffo
Israel gets favoured the most out of all the countries in the middle east. Just look at how much America gave it last year, $30 billion wasn't it? They condemn Iran for pursuing a nuclear program yet they have tons of nukes themselves. Israel is also not a signatory member of the NPT and refuses to let the IAEA in to check it's nuclear sites, something Iran has done.
Their barbaric treatment of the indigenous population is something that would make the god of the old testament proud, which also coincidently is the reason they lay claim to the area. Why do the governments of the world turn a blind eye to blatant violations of the Geneva convention and breaches of human rights? Probably because of the fear of being labelled an anti-Semitic
Israel-Palestinian conflict by numbers (the numbers do not lie)
Oppressing minorities in your own country is a human rights violation.
Oppressing monitories in their country after the cessation of hostilities is a war crime
Edit to add: actually the only country that gets favoured the same if not more than Israel is Saudi Arabiaedit on 14/1/2011 by Griffo because: (no reason given)