Israel..Favored by the world???

reply to post by lioevilo

MOST Jews are atheists today.

Tell me, What Jewish sect would this be?

"Sect"? Not sure what you mean, but hopefully you're not one of those who imagines some contradiction between being a Jew, and an atheist at the same time.

For starters, you might take a minute and read a Wikipedia article titled "Jewish Atheism".

As for Jews in Israel, most estimates seem to count at least half the Jewish population as "secular", with estimates as high as a third of these being various degrees of "atheist". Numbers not so different from France or the Netherlands.

ANYWAY, regardless of how shocking this info might be to "christians", it would make one wonder why "God" would favor such people, people who seemingly have turned away from their god, for the most part. Interestingly, some of the "christians" who are on the other end of the spectrum (anti-Jewish), they sometimes speculate that Jewish "faithlessness" is precisely why they have been getting their lumps, especially in this past century. No doubt these are the ones who hope Jesus comes back to kick Jewish hiney. Sheesh.

I'm sure anyone can find some bit of theology to back up whatever notions they invent. But whether Jews were "punished", or whether one thinks that "god" ignores their wickedness, perhaps due to their "chosen" status, or due to "his" promises, etc., it doesn't change the fact that many Jews have felt "betrayed" by their god, and have written about it. This is a variety of Jewish angst that comes out in so many ways, as their people took beating, after beating. Well, what makes more sense, a "god" that treats them like that, or the possibility that that god is just a fiction?

SO, whether the chicken or the egg came first, bottom line is there is a segment of Jews that can perhaps look back at their history (especially recent), and no wonder they have gone atheist. No wonder!

And when we think about the big Jewish names these past centuries, you don't get a list of religious rabbis! Instead we find names like Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud. Even Einstein really is considered an "atheist", properly speaking, notwithstanding his famous statement about God not playing dice. Even Israeli Prime Minister Golda Mier was an atheist, which you would think would be hard to manage politically, but Israel is not nearly as "religious" as the USA.

Atheist Jews are not a "sect". Atheists in general, no matter what their ethnic background, are people who offer a reasonable response to life as it is, not as we would like it to be.

JR

Originally posted by lioevilo
reply to post by backinblack

 

I know how Israel was formed. My point is that you are unfamiliar with history, In this case biblical history. FYI, It was outlined thousands of years ago exactly what land Israel was given. do you need proof?

Where was it outlined?
In one of them fiction books written by "man" about imaginary Gods.??
I don't think that would stand up in court...

Biblical history?? Is that a play on words.??

reply to post by backinblack

No, not the whole continent but they do now own vast areas, including a lot of mining areas and even Ayers Rock..

I've never heard of anything between the Aboriginals and the Australians, at any rate Australia has a # load of space, Israel is tiny, so that wouldn't be as easy...

Yes, there does seem to be a conserted attempt to rewrite history going on.. Many posters saying there NEVER was a Palistine etc.. Not unusual, history has been rewriten many times..A shame...

That's what I'm saying- How do you know for a fact there ever WAS a Palestinian people when, really, we don't have *any* irrefutable *fact* about this place's history from as near as 40 years ago to as far as 100 years ago?

We don't know jack, and everyone comes here parading their own 2 cents, with little to no historical back up, one guy says the Palestinians had lived here for many generations, and filled the land with villages and settlements, culture and building, while the other says these people were never residents of this area, and that they're all laborers brought in from Egypt, Sudan, and Bosnia.
Well I'm sick and tired of all of that, you should be too. You would be if you were an Israeli.

reply to post by JR MacBeth

"Sect"? Not sure what you mean, but hopefully you're not one of those who imagines some contradiction between being a Jew, and an atheist at the same time. For starters, you might take a minute and read a Wikipedia article titled "Jewish Atheism".

Well right back at you! For starters I have no clue what you mean. You either believe in God, (in this case the Hebrew God) or you don't (atheist) There is no such thing as a "Jewish Atheist" Have you not been told that Judaism is a religion? Common man, your more intelligent than that.

reply to post by Eliad

That's what I'm saying- How do you know for a fact there ever WAS a Palestinian people when, really, we don't have *any* irrefutable *fact* about this place's history from as near as 40 years ago to as far as 100 years ago?

Personally?? I don't give a damn who were there..
The only FACT that matters is that there WERE people there and they were moved to allow the Jews their Israel..

Does it REALLY matter if they were Palistinians, Australians or Martians??
The only fact that matters is that the PEOPLE who were THERE were MOVED....

reply to post by backinblack

In one of them fiction books written by "man" about imaginary Gods.??
I don't think that would stand up in court...

How ironic is that! Considering the fact that every court makes you swear under oath on the Bible.
Where does ATS find you guys?.lol

reply to post by lioevilo

How ironic is that! Considering the fact that every court makes you swear under oath on the Bible.
Where does ATS find you guys?.lol

True, very ironic to swear on a book that is NOT proven fact though I never did trust the legal system.

BTW, if you believe this book then you believe we are all brothers, related by blood through Adam and Eve..
Therefore there are no "chosen" ones..
But DNA tells a different tale as many Jewish posters have pointed out...
Ironic huh?

reply to post by backinblack


Honestly, I would love to hear why you think the "chosen ones" (the term) irritates you so much? Why do you think they were chosen.?

reply to post by Eliad


Are you as an Israeli, actually trying to defend the Palestinian right to YOUR ancestorial homeland?

What books am i reading? Heres a short list of some of the books i own

Israel Awakened; a History of the Oslo Accords - prof Eugene Narrett
A jewish philosophy of History - Dr. Paul Eidelberg
In Ishmaels house; A history of Jews in Muslim lands - martin gilbert
From time immemorial; the origins of the arab Jewish conflict over palestine - joan peters
The quest for the justice in the middle east - gerald honigman
Israel and the Palestinian nightmare - Ze'av shamar

Originally posted by lioevilo
reply to post by backinblack

 

Honestly, I would love to hear why you think the "chosen ones" (the term) irritates you so much? Why do you think they were chosen.?

Hmm, why would I think anyone is chosen??
That is the opinion sprouted by others, not me...

BTW, that's not really addressing my post..

reply to post by backinblack


Humm ,I see. Your spouting off against the 'chosen people' (which this thread is clearly about) however, you have no clue as to why the are called Gods chosen people. You have lost all credibility as to your opposition regarding Jewish people. FYI, before they were Jews they were called ISRAEL.

reply to post by dontreally


The fact that I need more solid proof of what you're saying does not mean I buy whatever the other side's paddling.. I'm really only trying to form an unbiased educated factual view of things, and for that I need sources, not interpretations..

reply to post by Eliad


Well its not an interpretation that palestine was desolate in the late 1800s (and for that matter, since christian times in the 13th century). Its not an opinion, that it wasnt until the early 20th century that the arabs started flooding into southern Palestine to fight off the Jews who were promised a state in the balfour declaration.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by lioevilo
reply to post by backinblack

 

I know how Israel was formed. My point is that you are unfamiliar with history, In this case biblical history. FYI, It was outlined thousands of years ago exactly what land Israel was given. do you need proof?

Where was it outlined?
In one of them fiction books written by "man" about imaginary Gods.??
I don't think that would stand up in court...

Biblical history?? Is that a play on words.??

No, there is actual a biblical history, but it belongs to the science of Theology and not that of History. The whole religious myth of the promised land is just that: a myth. And besides, after more than 2000 years in exile, you don't suddenly come back, invade a foreign land and force the inhabitants themselves to exile. Otherwise, I could claim that half of Asia should belong to Greece, because a Greek king who was said to be the son of Zeus conquered it, and because some ancestors of mine might have been living there 2300 years ago. Oh and, if you could buy off the court, anything can stand in a court of law, even such outlandish claims.

reply to post by backinblack


As I said-

And anyway non of this would magically make the history of violence of this place okay, on neither side.

That goes without saying.

And it *does* matter if they were Palestinians of not, if their villages were formed 20 years or 200 years before they were kicked out of it, if they were all Jordanians and Egyptians and Sudanese 50 year prior or genuine inhabitants of these lands for hundreds of years.

Doesn't make kicking them out okay ('sides I still think evicting villages was fair game during the war, seeing as how they were used to attack convoys and soldiers, it was the keeping of the lands that wasn't okay), but it does put a big question mark on why they insist on returning to a land they've been for a short 50 years (for example) when they have lands surrounding them that have been a part of their history for hundreds of years, and contain their whole history.

reply to post by lioevilo

There is no such thing as a "Jewish Atheist" Have you not been told that Judaism is a religion?

Saying something doesn't make it so. In fact, you could repeat it, and it still wouldn't be so!

What do you have against Wikipedia? The fact that they have an article titled "Jewish Atheism" suggests you might learn something. Go ahead, broaden your horizons. You're not afraid of turning atheist, are you?

As far as Judaism being a religion, yes, I've heard that! But why mention it? What's it got to do with the price of tea in China?

Hopefully, you have heard that being a Jew is separate from practicing Judaism, right? If you are ethnically Jewish, does that mean you are stuck practicing the faith of your fathers? Or is Sigmund Freud not Jewish, because he was an atheist? Yeah, kind of absurd. I suppose if you're Italian, you should be Catholic too, applying your reasoning.

I wasn't sure whether to believe the recent poll about Christians being the most ignorant about religion, but I'm starting to think they might be right. You're not from the South too, are you? That group was bottom-of-the-barrel according to the poll.

JR

Originally posted by lioevilo
reply to post by backinblack

 

Humm ,I see. Your spouting off against the 'chosen people' (which this thread is clearly about) however, you have no clue as to why the are called Gods chosen people. You have lost all credibility as to your opposition regarding Jewish people.

FYI, before they were Jews they were called ISRAEL.

edit on 17-1-2011 by lioevilo because: added something

lol, what an uneducated post..
You need to seperate religion from race before making silly statements..

reply to post by WalterRatlos

No, there is actual a biblical history, but it belongs to the science of Theology and not that of History

Science of theology? WTF are you talking about? theology and science are two different fields of study. One studies the material physical world (science) and one is the study of religious fact. theology studies Spirit , which god is. How can you combine two totally different concepts? No such thing, Ima.

reply to post by lioevilo

How can you combine two totally different concepts? No such thing, Ima.

Why not? You say all jews are from Israel originally..
Same thing..

reply to post by JR MacBeth


reply to post by JR MacBeth

What do you have against Wikipedia?

Wikipedia was created by man. Man is fallible, man lies. (no pun intended.lol)

Hopefully, you have heard that being a Jew is separate from practicing Judaism, right?

The only thing I can tell you (apparently you cant figure it out your self) is that Jews believe in God, Atheists do not. I cant put it to you in any simpler form.