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Israel..Favored by the world???

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posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
So you dont think cutting yourself induces a change in consciousness?

I can assure you, it does.

That was the entire basis in this ancient pagan practice.


But it is not the basis of the Shia practice we are looking at. Which is the point you are entirely missing.

For a moment though, let's say you're right. The next question is, "so what?"



This is a video of a fellow reading the Torah. See how he bows back and forth? Hear the rhythm of his singing? His fellows are joining in. This is a ritual performance, and that is the key here; this man, too, is entering a psycho-spiritual state. The rhythm of his words and his bowing, the setting, the expectations all lend to a sort of transcendental openness.

Further, back to the topic of circumcision, that is not unique to Jewish people; it is in fact a fairly common rite of manhood in all sorts of "pagan" cultures as well; Australian Aborigines for instance. Read your Torah, back to Abraham. He circumcises himself, and he's eighty years old at that time (I think he's eighty, he's pretty up there). This is an act that's bound to hurt like crazy; and since he is doing so as a ritual offering to his god, it's safe to guess that he had entered an altered state while making a sacrifice of his own flesh and blood - LOTS of blood. Except it would be spilling over his scrotum and legs, rather than his face.

if you're going to rant and rave about "Paganism" in Islam and Christianity, and your examples are altered states of mind and bloodletting, well, then you're again, really, really ignorant of Judaism, as well. It's founded on older "Pagan" religions, embraced many "Pagan" elements (including the main god, the Indo-European mountain god that became YHWH) and continues bloodletting and altered awareness. There is also the stated intent by some in the Jewish community to renew the practice of animal sacrifices if the Temple Mount returns to Jewish control.


I dont have to specify WHICH group did it, because it was universal. Any method that can alter ones consciousness had been experimented with and utliized by the ancient cultists.


Including group chanting and ritual body movements while singing from a holy scroll, evidently.


Sex was another one.


I hear Jews have sex. And that there are even entries in the Talmud as to how to do it properly (Hint; ladies first!)


As was eating the raw flesh or blood; whether of an animal or in some sick cases, a human being; as the rites of dionysus, bacchus, sabazios, osiris in Egypt and many others etc show.


None of which sacrificed (much less ate) human beings. The myths about the Maenads are just that; myths. Sexist myths at that, told as they are from the voices of men who were disparaging the female Dionysus cult. Osiris' cult did not sacrifice. Temples to Sabazios did sacrifice snakes, symbolic of the god's own battle with the cosmic serpent (a surprisingly prevalent theme in European and near-eastern myth).

Seriously, there are lots of very wonderful books in the world about ethnography, ancient mythologies, the history and religions of Rome, Greece, and Egypt, and all of them say you're dead wrong. GO find a few and educate yourself.


I also believe this is quite popular in Hinduism with 'Kali' the goddess of death.


You're confusing real-life Hinduism with that scene from "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"



Lets get a consensus from all REASONABLE men.


As I've already noted, you only consider anyone to be reasonable if they agree with you.


Lets first show them the practice, and than explain the symbolic significance of it. Circumcision is done on the organ of the body assiocated with life - the phallus in kabbalah is Yesod, which means 'foundation'. it establishes ones relationship with reality. All ones vitality passes through it; whether psychologically, or physically (in coitus).


You make kabbalah sound an awful lot like Tantra (which doesn't surprise me as much as i'll bet it surprises and infurates you)


Circumcizing it signifies removing a thick, desensitizing husk which spiritually speaking means removing the husk of the heart; of the emotions.


Except... it doesn't. The foreskin contains about half of the nerve endings in the penis; to put it bluntly, intact men experience greater and more satisfying sensations during sex. There's also the problem that without the foreskin, the glans dries out and calluses - especially after years of rubbing around in clothing, thus decreasing sensation further.

Of course, odds are there would be very few Jewish men who have any sort of firsthand experience with these facts, so the myth that the foreskin is "desensitizing" could have an explanation in that.


In Kabbalah, Yesod is the lowest extemity of the 6 emotive sefirot. It therefore clarifies emotion and refines it for more spiritual purposes. Its a very noble and dignified practice. The fact that that it seeks to BETTER our spiritual condition, and is thoughtful, and Morally responsible should warrant the admiration of all thoughtful men; Jewish or not. Also, this is done among muslims aswell; partly. In the Jewish rite the mucus membrane that covers the corona is also removed. This signifies the subtleties of emotion. The main foreskin is the blatant, obvious emotional characteristics that need to be corrected. The less obvious mucus membrane are those subtle emotional aspects that need rectification.

Now i dont even think i need to comprare this beautiful and divine practice with slashing your forehead and running around frenzied. Whatever reason that can be given for it will still pale in decency in comparison.


Except that "beautiful and divine practice" is still mutilating a baby's penis and then performing fellatio on him.

See, if you can melt the Shia mourning of Ali into something perverse with no spiritual meaning, then the same can definitely be done for traditional Jewish circumcision.

The Shia are frenzied crazy people like Jews are knife-happy baby rapists.



No.. Not Haredi. Have you heard of Bnei Noach? Im basically a gentile with an admiration for Judaism.


So at least now i'm no longer so confused about why a Jewish guy knows nothing about Judaism.


Yes. thats a practice. its done to help stop the bleeding.


No, that's actually what the cumin is applied afterwards for. It's a stanching agent. I believe the mouthing is to prevent any of the blood from hitting the ground.


To even think of anything perverse about it just reveals your own sordid mind. Its an 8 day old baby. The parents and many other friends and family are around. Its done for hygenic reasons. Thats all.


Except I didn't mention anything relating to perversity; that's all you, I'm afraid.

(Well, I did mention it in this post, but only to throw your own rhetoric back at you; I know there's nothing sexual about it.)

I brought it up for hygiene reasons. The mouth isn't exactly clean. In fact it's a breeding ground for infectious agents, and many very dangerous diseases can be spread through saliva; in fact I remember some stories form a few months back about several infants contracting syphilis through this practice.

There's really nothing at all hygienic about this practice; about the only way to get MORE unhygienic would be to clean the blood off with used bath tissue.




posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by Truth01
 


Question; What does Jesus do to those who do not accept him as god, as described in Revelation?

Followup question; what is the major theological difference between Judaism and Christianity?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:16 AM
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Actually in the verses where humans were seperated into sheep and goats, it is clearly implied that people were sent to heaven (sheep) or hell (goats) based solely on their deeds towards other humans. Not whether they accepted Jesus blood sacrifice.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You have to understand the themes which underly these metaphors.

They are simply metaphors. Assyria and Egypt in Hebrew are Ashur and Mitzrayim.

Ultimately, there are more people than just these 3. To exclude everyone else would completely unlike the G-d of the Jews, who loves each and every one of his creations. Thus, what does Ashur and Mitzrayim mean? The way to find meaning in this and all biblically ambiguous verses is to look at the name. Ashur is like osher - wealth, or richness, and Mitzrayim is related to the word mitzarim, limitations. thus, we have abundance - wealth and riches, and Limitation - poverty, or pain (Tzar means pain)....

So i think the meaning of that verse has to do with mans relationship with abundane and limitation, and how they both must coexist with the soul - Israel, in its proper proporation.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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Whatever! You can gab all you like about this, but Israel won't ever fall, it has been written and when a war does occur it will be His return.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 





Further, back to the topic of circumcision, that is not unique to Jewish people; it is in fact a fairly common rite of manhood in all sorts of "pagan" cultures as well; Australian Aborigines for instance. Read your Torah, back to Abraham. He circumcises himself, and he's eighty years old at that time (I think he's eighty, he's pretty up there). This is an act that's bound to hurt like crazy; and since he is doing so as a ritual offering to his god, it's safe to guess that he had entered an altered state while making a sacrifice of his own flesh and blood - LOTS of blood. Except it would be spilling over his scrotum and legs, rather than his face.


He was 99 at circumcision; Ishmael, father of Islam, was 13.

Btw, the practice among the aborigines is done for completely different reasons as explained in various books by Joseph Campbell and i also believe CG Jungs 'man and his symbols'. The only commonality is a similar awareness of the significance of the phallus.

He sacrificed more than just his blood and pain; but a way of life. He left Ur casdim because it represented everything YOU seem to hold dear; a moral relativism, a reducing of all things to some relativity. He left the herems and the cult prostitutes and all the other strange and perverse tava'ot - abominations and fetishes which these people rationalized as utilitarian and serving in some way their rapacious appetite without thought to the honor of their creator and source.

That practice is dont for some obscene reasons. Self pain? Self infliction, maybe to makeup for ones own willfull offences... as if G-d wants people to go back and forth between sin and penance over and over again. That right there is a corruption in logic and in what G-d would want from man; honesty, sincerity and integrity.




if you're going to rant and rave about "Paganism" in Islam and Christianity, and your examples are altered states of mind and bloodletting, well, then you're again, really, really ignorant of Judaism, as well. It's founded on older "Pagan" religions, embraced many "Pagan" elements (including the main god, the Indo-European mountain god that became YHWH) and continues bloodletting and altered awareness.


That is linguists and "archeologists' wet dream. Please. Zyeus - pitar, the hypothized name of the Indo-aryan 'sky' god, is not the same as YHWH. Not etymologically, or logically, period. Its a creation of neo-pagans to defeat the reality that YHWH really is G-d, and unconnected with dyes, zeus, jupiter, jove or the latin deus (of the christians)... YHWH is different as any REAL student - and not some big mouthed fat head - of Torah/kabbakah would know.

Read the verse where Abraham goes to sacrifice Isaac. The name which tells him to do it is Elohim - the name of judgement, while the name "angel of YHWH' tells him to stop. This describes two different modes by which the infinite relates with man. It is the ULTIMATE meaning of what G-d can mean to a created human being. He has to create modes in order to relate with us, and Elohim and YHWH are those two main modes. As Judah HaLevi says in the Kuzari "the name YHWH is not known to any other people. Only to us did G-d choose to reveal this name".

Ultimately, all people are meant to know and relate to this name of mercy. The state of Israel is the beginning of the revelation of that process.




There is also the stated intent by some in the Jewish community to renew the practice of animal sacrifices if the Temple Mount returns to Jewish control.


The only reason why the practice desisted was as the Talmud says, they need the ashes of the red heifer. Until that can be found, the temple cannot be rebuilt and the service cannot be resumed. Also, the simply reason behind animal slaughter again is symbolic. The 'animal' of man is slaughtered unto G-d. The sparks of holiness, or the physical vitality that gave life to that animal is transforrmed and utilized for holiness. Thats why only certain animals with particularly noble traits are chosen. The animal initself isnt bad; only mans negative use of his animal faculties is bad. This is unlike the pagans which eat alligators and pigs and wild animals in order to imbibe their traits.




Including group chanting and ritual body movements while singing from a holy scroll, evidently.


Its the flame of the soul. Its an absolutely beautiful movement; its literally the rhythm of the soul thirsting for its source.




I hear Jews have sex. And that there are even entries in the Talmud as to how to do it properly (Hint; ladies first!)


This isnt catholicism. sex is spoken of very often in the Jewish tradition; albeit, in a very holy context.




Seriously, there are lots of very wonderful books in the world about ethnography, ancient mythologies, the history and religions of Rome, Greece, and Egypt, and all of them say you're dead wrong. GO find a few and educate yourself.


And i say thats complete bullscrap. Have you read euripides the bacchae? I dont think he was 'making anything up;'. He was infact describing real practices even if it had a metaphorical subtext to it.

Also, i dont think any 'mythologist or ethnologist, would be stupid enough to spill the beans. There are meaningful practices with utilitarian ends that would fit the criteria of any existentialist who needs PUPOSE and meaning in order to do something. For instance, war is one great sacrifice to the death god - kali, or whatever. Its a sacrfiice of life - and in the case of the chess playing nobility, its done to advance their twisted world agenda; a sacrifice for a PUPOSE. As ignatius loyola says "the end sanctifies the means". A philosophy equally held to by christians and muslims.

I guess thats why both of them control the minds of most the earths people.




You're confusing real-life Hinduism with that scene from "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"


No. Im reading ramakrishna. You should too.

also, have you read about the Tibetan Buddhist and founder of colorados Naropa university,Chögyam Trungpa.. He was one sordid, vile man.

Heres a little excerpt from wikipedia about his lifestyle




Two former students of Trungpa, John Steinbeck IV and his wife, wrote a sharply critical memoir of their lives with him in which they claim that, in addition to alcohol, Trungpa used $40,000 a year worth of coc aine, and used Seconal to come down from the coc aine. The coc aine use, say the Steinbecks, was kept secret from the wider Vajradhatu community





Of course, odds are there would be very few Jewish men who have any sort of firsthand experience with these facts, so the myth that the foreskin is "desensitizing" could have an explanation in that.


No. The foreskin SENSITIZES you to sex. Removing it DESENSITIZES you to sex; to mans animals compulsions. Thats what removing it is meant to accomplish..practically speaking. But spiritually its expressed as the 'circumcision of the heart'. As above so below. The physical circumcision is only the physical impression of ones own personal spiritual refinement.




Except that "beautiful and divine practice" is still mutilating a baby's penis and then performing fellatio on him.


wow, exaggerate much? Is the baby being jerked off? Or is the blood being squeezed out of him to stop the bleeding?

This could be a case of projection. You probably would imagine that action as having some subtle sexual elements to it. Its completely and utterly free from that. A mature person isnt bothered by this action.




So at least now i'm no longer so confused about why a Jewish guy knows nothing about Judaism.


you really are hilarious. Learn Hebrew, than speak to me.




Except I didn't mention anything relating to perversity; that's all you, I'm afraid.


Right. You say that just after referring to it as "falatio".

You are one massive hypcrite..cunning like a fox, right?

Are you a freemason by any chance?
edit on 17-1-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by dontreally
 


I'm a big Israel fan people try to say that muslims are indigenous but people conveniently forgot who occupied the land in bible times.


Also, who are the Palestinians anyway? Certainly they're not the descendants of the Philistines, an enemy of the Israelites, but the House of Esau...

Who are the Palestinians?

In 1867, Mark Twain remarked about his visit to the Holy Land in his book, "The Innocents Abroad." He lamented, "Stirring scenes occur in the valley [of Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings."

By all eyewitness accounts of that era, Palestine was a total desolation. There were virtually no trees and no people. Because of lack of trees, the weather changed and it rarely ever rained. The irrigation systems of the once fertile valleys were all destroyed, rendering most areas into malaria-ridden swamps. The terraces of the mountainsides were torn down, causing terrible erosion that left only barren rocks. This was the condition of Palestine by the beginning of the 19th century.

It was at this time that Jews began to flee severe persecutions in Russia and Eastern Europe. In the mid-1800s, some Jews came to Palestine and, with the generous aid of some successful Jews like the Rothschilds, began to buy property from Muslim Ottoman Turks. The Muslims thought the land was worthless anyway, so they sold it to the "dumb Jews" for extremely inflated prices.

To everyone's amazement, the Jews were very successful at reclaiming the land. Many of them died from malaria and the rigorous life the work demanded, but they performed an agricultural miracle that made the land very productive again. As a result of their success, poor migrant workers from the surrounding Muslim countries began to flood in to work for the Jews. The Jews literally became victims of their own success – almost all of the people calling themselves "Palestinians" today are the descendants of those migrant workers.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by Truth01
Whatever! You can gab all you like about this, but Israel won't ever fall, it has been written and when a war does occur it will be His return.



Well, with that attitude why even bother posting your point of view on an internet forum? You ought to be able to defend your views when challenged. So far, you have failed to address many of my previous posts. Or do you deem it unnecassary to respond to points made by those who dont believe what you believe? Looks that way.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You have to understand the themes which underly these metaphors.

They are simply metaphors. Assyria and Egypt in Hebrew are Ashur and Mitzrayim.

Ultimately, there are more people than just these 3. To exclude everyone else would completely unlike the G-d of the Jews, who loves each and every one of his creations. Thus, what does Ashur and Mitzrayim mean? The way to find meaning in this and all biblically ambiguous verses is to look at the name. Ashur is like osher - wealth, or richness, and Mitzrayim is related to the word mitzarim, limitations. thus, we have abundance - wealth and riches, and Limitation - poverty, or pain (Tzar means pain)....

So i think the meaning of that verse has to do with mans relationship with abundane and limitation, and how they both must coexist with the soul - Israel, in its proper proporation.


ummm... I dont think they were used as metaphors. There is definitely something about Egypt and Assyria in a literal sense... considering the words used in previous verses...

Isaiah 19: 21 Thus the LORD will make Himself known to Egypt, and the Egyptians will know the LORD in that day. They will even worship with sacrifice and offering, and will make a vow to the LORD and perform it.

Isaiah 19: 22 The LORD will strike Egypt, striking but healing; so they will return to the LORD, and He will respond to them and will heal them.

Isaiah 19:23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians.


Seeing how Isaiah speaks of actual people and places... its pretty clear that Isaiah refers to a literal Egypt and Assyria....and literal "egyptians" and "assyrians".
edit on 17-1-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by ironfalcon
 


How are so sure all of this is true? How do you know Mark Twain actually said that?

Last I've checked by the 1930's there were 500K Arabs in Palestine, how's that possible?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Great lists. Some good arguments on other posts.
But your OP is incomplete or lacking direction.
Why do you feel that Israel is favored? Because they break resolutions and nothing seems to happen to them?
You should read some of the ATS threads on Israel. Not all are favorable. And you need a more compelling argument with these statistics. Even rock stars go to jail - they just have to be caught and tried first.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by DaWhiz
 


It's just a thinly veiled "Israel is the best, rah rah rah " thread...
Boring.......



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by ironfalcon
 


How are so sure all of this is true? How do you know Mark Twain actually said that?

Last I've checked by the 1930's there were 500K Arabs in Palestine, how's that possible?


You question that but not the holy books, writen by men??


Man that's funny.......



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Hehe, what's there to question? It's interesting reading, not much more.. Some accurate portrayal of history (if you look past the bull#), I'd presume, and some inaccurate portrayal of history, I'd also presume, and a whole lot of abra kadabra, other than that there are some very good stories with decent morals, and some really beautiful poems that supposedly David wrote (if you speak Hebrew). You've got wars, kings, magic, betrayal, danger, love, loss, sorrow, corruption, etc.. Not too shabby for a 2000 year old book, wouldn't you say?


At any rate, why wouldn't I question it? Anyone can say Mark Twain said Palestine was empty before the Jews arrived, I want to see proof, so I can later use it when debating you



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Ok.... But than what of all the other peoples? Is G-d than rejecting the rest of them?

The bible speaks in metaphor. It doesnt appear that way to the english reader because he doesnt know that the word Ashur - Assyria, is also the same as 'riches' or wealth, and he doesnt know that Mitzrayim - Egypt, is also the same letters as 'limitations'.

All those examples you gave aswell can be understand in an allegorical manner...



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Turns out he's right-


The Innocents Abroad, or The New Pilgrims' Progress is a travel book by American author Mark Twain published in 1869 which humorously chronicles what Twain called his "Great Pleasure Excursion" on board the chartered vessel Quaker City (formerly USS Quaker City) through Europe and the Holy Land with a group of American travelers in 1867.


From the book (too lazy to read the whole thing through...)


Stirring scenes like these occur in this valley no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent—not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings.


We traversed some miles of desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds—a silent, mournful expanse, wherein we saw only three persons—Arabs


Here were evidences of cultivation—a rare sight in this country—an acre or two of rich soil studded with last season's dead corn-stalks of the thickness of your thumb and very wide apart. But in such a land it was a thrilling spectacle. Close to it was a stream, and on its banks a great herd of curious-looking Syrian goats and sheep were gratefully eating gravel. I do not state this as a petrified fact—I only suppose they were eating gravel, because there did not appear to be any thing else for them to eat.


This morning, during breakfast, the usual assemblage of squalid humanity sat patiently without the charmed circle of the camp and waited for such crumbs as pity might bestow upon their misery. [....] They reminded me much of Indians, did these people.[...]These people about us had other peculiarities, which I have noticed in the noble red man, too: they were infested with vermin, and the dirt had caked on them till it amounted to bark.


The whole thing's here if you'd like to verify, it's not bad actually..
www.gutenberg.org...

What if Palestine was as empty as Mark Twain describes it?



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Eliad
 


It WAS as empty as Mark Twain describes.

Heres further evidence

Hadriani Relandis 1695 book "a tour of Palestina"



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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1. Not one settlement in the Land of Israel has a name that is of Arabic origin. Most of the settlement names originate in the Hebrew, Greek, Latin or Roman languages. In fact, till today, except to Ramlah, not one Arabic settlement has an original Arabic name. Till today, most of the settlements names are of Hebrew or Greek origin, the names distorted to senseless Arabic names. There is no meaning in Arabic to names such as Acco (Acre), Haifa, Jaffa, Nablus, Gaza, or Jenin and towns named Ramallah, El Halil and El-Kuds (Jerusalem) lack historical roots or Arabic philology. In 1696, the year Relandi toured the land, Ramallah, for instance, was called Bet'allah (From the Hebrew name Beit El) and Hebron was called Hebron (Hevron) and the Arabs called Mearat HaMachpelah El Chalil, their name for the Forefather Abraham.

2. Most of the land was empty, desolate, and the inhabitants few in number and mostly concentrate in the towns Jerusalem, Acco, Tzfat, Jaffa, Tiberius and Gaza. Most of the inhabitants were Jews and the rest Christians. There were few Muslims, mostly nomad Bedouins. Nablus, known as Shchem, was exceptional, where approximately 120 people, members of the Muslim Natsha family and approximately 70 Shomronites, lived.

In the Galilee capital, Nazareth, lived approximately 700 Christians and in Jerusalem approximately 5000 people, mostly Jews and some Christians.

The interesting part was that Relandi mentioned the Muslims as nomad Bedouins who arrived in the area as construction and agriculture labor reinforcement, seasonal workers.

In Gaza for example, lived approximately 550 people, fifty percent Jews and the rest mostly Christians. The Jews grew and worked in their flourishing vineyards, olive tree orchards and wheat fields (remember Gush Katif?) and the Christians worked in commerce and transportation of produce and goods. Tiberius and Tzfat were mostly Jewish and except of mentioning fishermen fishing in Lake Kinneret -- the Lake of Galilee -- a traditional Tiberius occupation, there is no mention of their occupations. A town like Um el-Phahem was a village where ten families, approximately fifty people in total, all Christian, lived and there was also a small Maronite church in the village (The Shehadah family).

3. The book totally contradicts any post-modern theory claiming a "Palestinian heritage," or Palestinian nation. The book strengthens the connection, relevance, pertinence, kinship of the Land of Israel to the Jews and the absolute lack of belonging to the Arabs, who robbed the Latin name Palestina and took it as their own.

In Granada, Spain, for example, one can see Arabic heritage and architecture. In large cities such as Granada and the land of Andalucía, mountains and rivers like Guadalajara, one can see genuine Arabic cultural heritage: literature, monumental creations, engineering, medicine, etc. Seven hundred years of Arabic reign left in Spain an Arabic heritage that one cannot ignore, hide or camouflage. But here, in Israel there is nothing like that! Nada, as the Spanish say! No names of towns, no culture, no art, no history, and no evidence of Arabic rule; only huge robbery, pillaging and looting; stealing the Jews' holiest place, robbing the Jews of their Promised Land. Lately, under the auspices of all kind of post modern Israelis -- also hijacking and robbing us of our Jewish history.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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So you have Hadriani Relandi, Mark Twain, all substantiating jewish claims that the arabs had no appreciable settlement in the land...and yet the world STILL ignores this evidence.....



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
So you have Hadriani Relandi, Mark Twain, all substantiating jewish claims that the arabs had no appreciable settlement in the land...and yet the world STILL ignores this evidence.....


Here in Australia the aborigines have been given title to vast tracks of land..
They didn't have cities or even small villages.
They were normadic and never stayed in one spot..
They moved with the weather and food supply.
It didn't mean it wasn't their land, simply that they new how to work the areas..



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