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The reasons to go to war.

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posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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We have been through the anti war rhetoric. Lets look at the other side.

1. Staunch U.S. ally fires on American warship.
2. Fires chemical and biological weapons at local populace.
3. Invades soverign nation threatening to cut off oil flow and attacking locals.
4. Pays Palestinian suicide bombers families to kill Israelis and destabilize region.
5. Hides/tricks/lies about WMD produced and held in his country.
6. Vladimir Putin advises Bush that Saddam has plans to send terror attacks into the U.S.
7. Consistantly fires on American and British aircraft in the no fly zone.
8. Threatens to stem the flow of oil to the west, possibly shutting down the world economy.
9. Iran is now surrounded by a Democracy on the East and West. Not to mention 200,000 plus American soldiers.


I have to say these are very legitimate reasons in my mind.

Do any of you rabid anti-Bush people have a response?
Responses that are more then " He lied about the WMD'S." "Halliburton" or "We just wanted free oil."




posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:37 PM
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I'm not just "anti-Bush". I'm not keen on Kerry either cuz he wants to keep troops in Iraq. Anyone dumb enuf to think we can "stop" suicide bombers are retards.

Your list doesn' include one very, very important little something:

WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOCUSSING ON BIN LADEN.
HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11.
BUSH WAITED ONE MONTH TO GO AFTER HIM.

IT IS NOW 3 YEARS LATER.
BIN IS STILL AROUND.

THE TWIN TOWERS HAVE NOT BEEN VINDICATED.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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The name "Bushblows" leads me to think you are just anti-bush.

It is very easy to be against something. It is VERY difficult to be FOR something.

Bush did not invade Iraq to get Osama. He went with the "Big Picture."
Shut down the feeding grounds of these murderers. Iran was enemy number one for feeding grounds. We went after Osama in Afghanistan and missed. But the area is much better off.

We went after Iraq because he was feeding terrorists and we HAD TROOPS THERE.

Now Iran is sweating bullets. Libya threw up its hands. Uzbekistan is firmly with us. We are changing the face of the Middle East.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by crmanager
We have been through the anti war rhetoric. Lets look at the other side.

1. Staunch U.S. ally fires on American warship.
2. Fires chemical and biological weapons at local populace.
3. Invades soverign nation threatening to cut off oil flow and attacking locals.
4. Pays Palestinian suicide bombers families to kill Israelis and destabilize region.
5. Hides/tricks/lies about WMD produced and held in his country.
6. Vladimir Putin advises Bush that Saddam has plans to send terror attacks into the U.S.
7. Consistantly fires on American and British aircraft in the no fly zone.
8. Threatens to stem the flow of oil to the west, possibly shutting down the world economy.
9. Iran is now surrounded by a Democracy on the East and West. Not to mention 200,000 plus American soldiers.


I have to say these are very legitimate reasons in my mind.

Do any of you rabid anti-Bush people have a response?
Responses that are more then " He lied about the WMD'S." "Halliburton" or "We just wanted free oil."


1. He was a U.S. ally, until we allowed him to invade Kuwait, and turned our backs on him.
2. Fired on US and British air planes only after 1st Gulf War.
3. Surrounded by democracy? Afganistan and Iraq are nowhere near democracy.
4. American soldiers are not even welcome in Iraq.
5. Our soldiers are dying daily for a people that don't even want them there.
6. Supposed WMD's have never been found.
8. Iraqi oil has been basically shut down, and the world is still in place. Saudi oil is what makes everything go vroom.
9. Our rights are being taken away by total anti-liberty bills Like the Patriot Act I/II

Truth is, we were lied to. Everything from the First Gulf War to 9/11 to Afganistan to Gulf War 2.



Ask yourself this: Is America better off since the war started? Are there fewer terrorists in the world? If Iraq was invading it's neighbors and poisoning it's people, how does that effect an American living in Backward County, Georgia? Where is the proof of WMD's? Where's the link between Saddam and Al-Queda and 9/11? Why are Iraqis in America paying .05 a gallon for gas? IS your life any safer than it was 2 years ago?

Bring our brave men and women home



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 03:03 PM
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Are you really that short sighted?

We ALLOWED HIM to invade? What conspiracy site is that off of?
He fired on planes he had NO RIGHT OR AUTHORITY to fire on.
He is surrounded by free thinking people that can act on there needs.
American soldiers were not wanted in Japan or Germany. Tought cookies to the locals.
The wepons are showing up in Turkey, the Netherlands and Syria. And even the U.N. said he had them.
He wanted Saudi Arabia too you forget.
No rights have been taken away. You can still talk, think act any way you want.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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In allowing Iraq to invade Kuwait, I meant that we did nothing to stop it before it happened.

Read

Americans were stationed in japan and Germany, firstly, because Japan attacked Peal Harbor( Iraq never openly attacked the US), and the Germans declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor( Iraq never dclared open war on the US, and vice-versa).

No rights taken away? What rock have you been living under?

Infringement

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a brawl! But for the right reasons. I don't really give a crap about the Iraqis: I'm being honest. What I do care about are the people in our country. The one's who are starving, homeless, without healthcare, and so on. The billions spent on troop maintenance in Iraq could have fixed all the decaying public schools in Chicago.

We need to take care of our own first.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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See nathraq, your true colors are coming out.

Of course we did nothing. He just decided to invade.

As for rights, The wire tapping is done on TERRORIST SUSPECTS. Listening in on conversations is not quite mass deportations to barb wire prison camps.

Relax.

And you are right, I would much rather put that money into Chcago schools. 9/11 sort of changed that. They want to KILL those same students. If those soldiers came home the bad guys would follow them home and start blowing those schools.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 04:11 PM
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Yes, I can see why they want to kill us now. 20 Years ago, and American had no problems being in Iraq. They werre secular, even though Saddam is a wack-job. Our foreign policy is what the problem is.

Wire tapping can be done on anyone, not just terror suspects, and with little or no evidence. That is a direct violation of the 4th amendment. And 're-education' camps might be closer to existing than you want to believe.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 04:24 PM
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Paranoia.

Answer the question... You see that we cannot withdraw the troops don't you?

So we must suck it up and win this war.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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Paranoia because I am afraid that my rights are being taken away?

Yes, then I guess I'm paranoid. The same paranoid guy that will speak up, when others become complacent.

Read



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by nathraq
In allowing Iraq to invade Kuwait, I meant that we did nothing to stop it before it happened.

Read

Americans were stationed in japan and Germany, firstly, because Japan attacked Peal Harbor( Iraq never openly attacked the US), and the Germans declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor( Iraq never dclared open war on the US, and vice-versa).

No rights taken away? What rock have you been living under?

Infringement

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a brawl! But for the right reasons. I don't really give a crap about the Iraqis: I'm being honest. What I do care about are the people in our country. The one's who are starving, homeless, without healthcare, and so on. The billions spent on troop maintenance in Iraq could have fixed all the decaying public schools in Chicago.

We need to take care of our own first.


I also agree with you that I really don't care all that much about the Iraqis. If they want to live in misery, more power to them, just leave me the hell alone. Maybe I'd send some money and munitions, perhap even troops, to help out the Kurds as long as doing so remains in our interest.

As for the Chicago Public Schools, I was born and raised in Chicago, and quickly realized that CPS would suck whether they were stripped of all funds or given a trillion dollar budget.



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by crmanager
9. Iran is now surrounded by a Democracy on the East and West. Not to mention 200,000 plus American soldiers.


iran is a democracy, albeit a fundamentalist one.

-koji K.



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 04:42 AM
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The word Terrorist has and will continue to broaden. Pretty soon I would not be suprised if anyone who disagreed with the govenment is classed as terrorist.

Also those are good reasons for invading Iraq if you say, however, US and Britian said NOTHING about the freedom of Iraqi people nor the other bulls**t when they were whipping the people into a frenzy.

Whilst there are pro war people around eager to jump right in and blast the s**t out of people for lies this world will never evolve.

Nick Berg the guy who got Beheaded yeah. His dad was on BBC world in a interview and dispite loosing his son to 'terrorists' he STILL blames the BUsh admin. He still says the war is bogus and fake. He STILL thinks we went into Iraq based on a lie. He said he couldn't say that on American TV, they wanted him to talk about how Nick was such a great man etc etc. If a man who has lost his Son to a brutal method like that can see past the lies isn't about time some other people tried it?

Wake up!!!

[edit on 10-7-2004 by 7th_Chakra]



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 07:02 AM
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Jay Rockefeller:
"Tragically, the intelligence failures set forth in this report will affect our national security for generations to come."

Our credibility is diminished. Our standing in the world has never been lower. We have fostered a deep hatred of Americans in the Muslim world, and that will grow. As a direct consequence, our nation is more vulnerable today than ever before."


Source: www.guardian.co.uk...

Way to go, Land of the Free! Show them what democracy is made of!

[edit on 10-7-2004 by shanti23]



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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Chakra,

You don't know that Bergs Dad belongs to one of the most leftist, socialist organizations in the world. He is so blinded by his hatred for AMERICA and BUSH he doesn't have the decency to morn HIS SON.

No one on this thread has the courage to admit they are wrong in saying we need to pull out the troops.

And by the way ... IRAN IS A DEMOCRACY???



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 09:42 AM
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Yep,

None of the reasons given were reasons our president gave us as justification to go to war.

He said Saddam had WMD.
He said Saddam had links to Al, Queda.

We could have removed Saddam without invading.

We were lied to by our governement, and we need change from the top (Bush) down.

President gave the orders to attack based on misinformation that makes him responcible and there is no way around that. I loved and voted for his father, I might even vote for his Brother some day but "W" is a lose cannon with poor judgement, and my vote will be counted.

Oh I do want to add that I think "W's" heart is in the right place. I just do not think he is the right person to run our country. Rush to Judgement and way to cowboy to be the leader of the worlds only super power. He would probably make a good senator were his voice is counted but not allowed to command a military.

The way he responded in Afganistan was top notch and improving our CIA, FBI, and adding the homeland defence department were all top notch decisions.

X

[edit on 10-7-2004 by Xeven]



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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You people need to be ashamed of yourselves we cant pull out of Iraq first we freed them and we must make sure they get to be a stable nation do you have any idea what would happen if we pull out its will be even worse than Iran also saddam let see some facts invaded another country and gases his own people and fought a war with another country Hitler gassed his own people invaded another country and fought many bordering county sad dam killed hundreds of thousands of his people Hitler killed millions of people and even if there were no DMD's in iraq are those not good enough reasons to liberate a country just cuz you are not threatened in your house can you be that self centered and selfish not to free a people you may not benefit but you free'ed 23 million people. Just because bush is the first president since Ronald Regan to take a strong stand on evil and torture and killings you don't like him and if Clinton was half the man he was we would not have half the problems we have today. The world and the people laughed at Winston Churchill when he said Hitler was a threat before he took power.



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
You people need to be ashamed of yourselves we cant pull out of Iraq first we freed them and we must make sure they get to be a stable nation do you have any idea what would happen if we pull out its will be even worse than Iran also saddam let see some facts invaded another country and gases his own people and fought a war with another country Hitler gassed his own people invaded another country and fought many bordering county sad dam killed hundreds of thousands of his people Hitler killed millions of people and even if there were no DMD's in iraq are those not good enough reasons to liberate a country just cuz you are not threatened in your house can you be that self centered and selfish not to free a people you may not benefit but you free'ed 23 million people. Just because bush is the first president since Ronald Regan to take a strong stand on evil and torture and killings you don't like him and if Clinton was half the man he was we would not have half the problems we have today. The world and the people laughed at Winston Churchill when he said Hitler was a threat before he took power.


Ashamed of ourselves for what? For questioning the deceipt of the current admininstration that has got your brethren and mine killed. Wake up - where have you been? There are no WMDs, no links, and most of all no weapons that pose and imminent threat to the US - FACT. Who are we kidding here - we are prior military. Remember how much of a threat N Korea is- remember that Iran has a fully-functioning nuclear program. Yet we free Iraq.

You and other continue to use the "freed the people, now we can't leave" mantra to justify where we are. Oh, we can't leave and yes we are in somewhat of a quagmire. But I tend to look at how we got there and be sure it doesn't happen again - I am about honor and integrity my friend as I assume you are too.

Correct the source. Correct the problem. That is why I will vote against this admin in the fall.



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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You are right. He said there were WMD's.
So did China, France, Germany, Russia, Pakistan, England, The U.N., Spain, Phillipines, and the rest of the whole friggin world. By the way do you hear about those missles that are turning up in the Netherlands and Turkey and Jordan? And the nerve gas the Poles found?

But Bush was the liar.

And HELLO, the 9/11 commission SAID there were contacts to AlQueda. Not to 9/11 but to the group.
Get a grip. We had good reasons to go in.
And by the way. North Korea told the world it had no nuke program then waited till we were in Iraq to announce it was startin everything back up.



posted on Jul, 10 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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crmanager:
And by the way. North Korea told the world it had no nuke program then waited till we were in Iraq to announce it was startin everything back up.


I wonder where they got their reactors from to make all that weapon grade plutonium...?


Source: Guardian, UK
Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.
...
The reactor deal was part of President Bill Clinton's policy of persuading the North Korean regime to positively engage with the west.

The sale of the nuclear technology was a high-profile contract. ABB's then chief executive, Goran Lindahl, visited North Korea in November 1999 to announce ABB's "wide-ranging, long-term cooperation agreement" with the communist government.


www.guardian.co.uk...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As for WMDs in Iraq:


The Courier-Mail:
Lt-Col Collins has requested a royal commission into the performance of Australia's spy agencies in assessing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, warning of the Bali terrorist bombing and the case of French terrorist suspect Willie Brigitte.
...
Lt-Col Collins's letter to Mr Howard detailed a series of alleged major intelligence failures, such as the use of claims about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction as a justification for going to war, delays in the Willie Brigitte case, confusion over warnings of the Bali bombing and the testing of sarin nerve agent on an Australian farm by a Japanese religious sect.


www.couriermail.news.com.au...


The Guardian, UK:
Tony Blair's headline-grabbing claim that Iraq could deploy weapons of mass destruction within 45 minutes of an order to do so was based on hearsay information"


politics.guardian.co.uk...

Coupled with:


Guardian, UK:
The principal claims justifying the invasion of Iraq - that Saddam Hussein had biological and chemical weapons and was developing nuclear weapons - were fundamentally wrong and the result of a "global intelligence failure", a Senate investigation concluded yesterday.


www.guardian.co.uk...


Doesn't look water tight to me. There have been too many 'reasons'.

War needs a noble reason, otherwise it is terrorism.
What is the reason for this war?

[edit on 10-7-2004 by shanti23]




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