Ophiuchus, the 13th Zodiac Sign

reply to post by Hemisphere

very few of the descriptive points ring a bell with me.

The thing to keep in mind is that when listing the traits of the sign, I intentionally focused on the negative aspects to make my point, especially in regards to the Illuminati and the other correspondences. There are a number of positive traits that I left out. Could be that you have worked past/transmuted the negative aspects, so you wouldn't necessarily recognize them in yourself.

This star sign Ophiuchus was not to be revealed until the Serpent has made itself aware to humans again! This has happened.

Humans now know they handle the serpent with respect for what it has given man in the form of all knowledge. The secret worship of this idol has humans at this point of evolution. Technology made by the effort of all humans over time.

There are still only 12 star signs with this one overlapping the other two. People who are born within this date of star sign Ophiuchus have split personalities.

I'm pretty sure all of your signs haven't changed, you were still born under your sign regardless. These new signs only affect newborns.

Originally posted by JoseChung

Originally posted by Alethea
Why do we see the Phoenix represented in the political arena as well as the churches?

Some of these people will crap all over anything unless it's Jesus, and I find it disgusting. Have felt an affinity with the Phoenix for years now too and won't be agreeing with any of that at all. (edit : just messaged the site and told them what I think.)

Just incase anyone was interested, this is the reply I got :

[name]
Thank you for your letter to Cutting Edge Ministries.

Yes, we realize exactly how important that bird is to false religions.
That is exactly why we are sharing the truth with you.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by me."

[name], we are not arrogant or bigoted. We simply care for your eternal destiny.

Please turn from yourself and turn to Jesus. Confess that you are guilty of violating God's law.
Trust the shed blood of Jesus Christ as the full payment of your offenses, and ask Him
to forgive and save you.

God loves you. Jesus paid for your sin. Please turn to Him today.




- - -

Messaged back but won't paste any more into here. This is what we're dealing with though, I find it unbelievable. And with no disrespect intended to Christians either. I just think that is way over the top. I don't even have any problem with the idea of Jesus, but I do have problems with people that think like that.

Originally posted by Archangelelijah

There are still only 12 star signs with this one overlapping the other two. People who are born within this date of star sign Ophiuchus have split personalities.

You've touched on one of my earlier points and questions. Why don't all of the stars and constellations affect us? Why just these 12 or 13? Are there not others that overlap the 12 widely accepted signs? Are we not under all of the stars in the universe?

Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
I'm pretty sure all of your signs haven't changed, you were still born under your sign regardless. These new signs only affect newborns.

It depends on what 'wheel' you are using.

Tropical...will never change, uses an imaginary wheel.

Sidereal changes over time...but ignores the real perception of the sky.,

I personally, thing the 'Art' of observing the cosmos and the 'Art' of using the cosmos as a true reflection....go together...I think the ancients used them together...observing the true sky and then using that true perspective to reflect on purpose.

If you use the true observable positions in the sky....this does not only effect new comers.

Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
I'm pretty sure all of your signs haven't changed, you were still born under your sign regardless. These new signs only affect newborns.

Hi LZ! Some of the astrological posters have covered this, both pro and con, earlier in the thread.

Originally posted by Archangelelijah
This star sign Ophiuchus was not to be revealed until the Serpent has made itself aware to humans again! This has happened.

Humans now know they handle the serpent with respect for what it has given man in the form of all knowledge. The secret worship of this idol has humans at this point of evolution. Technology made by the effort of all humans over time.

There are still only 12 star signs with this one overlapping the other two. People who are born within this date of star sign Ophiuchus have split personalities.

I would disagree that the people born with an Ophiuchus sun have split personalities. I know many Ophiuchians. I think they are dealt with a life of much needed choice...on a deeper level. That their life will deliver them many opportunities, some times harsh tests....to see where they stand. They can learn they are the master of the serpent or they can continue the path of releasing it in ways of chaos.

I think ones cosmic print shows more about a persons path for life, what they can work on, what inner growth can be done...then personalities.

I see many with Ophiuchus sun....having very hard tests....one of those I see alot with Ophiuchus is the challenge of addictions...living more for fulfillment of self then fulfillment of things of Spirit.

Just sharing with you a perception....no right or wrongs of course.
LV

Originally posted by JoseChung

Originally posted by JoseChung

Originally posted by Alethea
Why do we see the Phoenix represented in the political arena as well as the churches?

Some of these people will crap all over anything unless it's Jesus, and I find it disgusting. Have felt an affinity with the Phoenix for years now too and won't be agreeing with any of that at all. (edit : just messaged the site and told them what I think.)

Just incase anyone was interested, this is the reply I got :

[name]
Thank you for your letter to Cutting Edge Ministries.

Yes, we realize exactly how important that bird is to false religions.
That is exactly why we are sharing the truth with you.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by me."

[name], we are not arrogant or bigoted. We simply care for your eternal destiny.

Please turn from yourself and turn to Jesus. Confess that you are guilty of violating God's law.
Trust the shed blood of Jesus Christ as the full payment of your offenses, and ask Him
to forgive and save you.

God loves you. Jesus paid for your sin. Please turn to Him today.

Thanks for posting that Jose. That reply was nearly a form letter. Jose, that is their advertised "deal". You pretty much knew prior to contacting them what their response would be and I dare say that they did not disappoint. They/he/she were not going to respond to you by saying "Hey, all that stuff on the website, that's just for laughs." Consider that the historical "Jesus" could be a rather abrasive fellow if he in fact said and did the things that were attributed to him. That some of his ardent followers would hold to that 2000+ years later, well.... there is good reason for calling them "followers". They are holding to the known story. And they are accepting that the story that is known to them is true and/or has not been morphed and diverted by countless editors and editing over 2000+ years.

Not that Alethea needs my help, I don't however think she was attacking you or your affinity to the phoenix. (She will correct me if I'm wrong, I think.) This "Jesus" site just happened to hold some of the evidence on how the phoenix symbology and story has been used and abused by people and organizations. I think there are a number of sites that get into this same topic without having the base-line Christian theme. I have seen pics of Hillary Clinton and other world leaders with phoenix pins in numerous conspiracy threads. If I recall correctly, Hillary has at times stated that hers was not a phoenix but an "American Eagle".

The phoenix and Jesus are just two among many ancient stories of rebirth or resurrection. That followers of Jesus would attack a rival story of resurrection is somewhat understandable. "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.” Perhaps you've heard that used at a Christian funeral service. Of course the phoenix ends its life-cycle in fire and is reduced to ashes from which the new phoenix arises. The stories have much in common, don't take offense.

One of the things i have been noticing is that much of the sidereal astrology did not acount that the cardinal fixed mutable signs have changed. Therefore Aries once brought in the spring giving it a Cardinal trait of inititive, but with the new dates Aries would become Fixed and willfull, And the Cardinal would go to Pisces etc. This new Zodiac would change personality traits of the suppose sign. The astronomer even though outraged many i feel was trying to correct astrology. The Babylonia system and the ancients went by when the sun was in that sign and a person born of that time is said to be born under that sign, and more accurate the season of that sign. Also people say this is not news, well it was news for alot of people, I believe in astrology and i didnt know, fact is alot of people did not know there was sidereal system. its a new awareness for our generation. To spare an identity crisis and our generations fundelmentalism on astrology I think the new charts should be only for those born after 2011 (like some sort of A.D. astrology). Also we were under the old and in naivity it was true,and now there can be doubt and with new awareness should be new more accurate Zodiac and astrology.and also preserving the true way of astrology which in past was asoiciated with astronomy. How can astrologers say the cosmos dont matter when supposedly whats happening in the sky effects a person. Astrology is about cosmos and seasons. So things change, and it happened to happen in our generation, and if our generation doesnt fix it, it will be ignored as before times. But if it is revised will be good for another 2000 years and for generations to come. And so children in future wont wake up one day like i did to say sorry your not a libra but a virgo because astrologers are religiosly fixed. I think tropical zodiac should be presevred like a history book and new more accurate sidereal astrology come out. As far as being a libra i was and probly always will be cause i was born that way, but sorry tropical astrologers things in nature change even the stars.

reply to post by reddsite


If starting with aries to april 21, astrology was made in 30 day periods, not exact but prominant sign in sky, zodiacs have not crossed over least 200 years give or take aries and like 700 hundred years for pisces, but peopl rewrite books, but it would become complex, people want to write new astrology by tradition, cause houses and cardinal fixed mutable traits acsending midheaven etc. and that would mean the last aries wouldn even have same charachteristics.By my understanding, Aries would be more docile and wealthy for new generation and pisces beefed up an repressed emotion and of life free from icy cage.Basicaly the 12 houses do not move 30 day periods acording to suns left right motion on horizon and in this case the first cardinal and equinox go to pisces. Even the equinox itselv would have meaning. Well , im keeping my secrets, but we were born as we were but maybe came time for god or his secular name apollion sun god, maybe just that time. Basically were not goin back a sign but the entittys are moving forward as circling a flat earth and we dont just change our sign, its for the next generation, unless they like the new sign, which i dont believe any astrologer has understanding of.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by SeaWind

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by SeaWind

 

Sidereal has its own mistakes....

The Sun would of been seen in Leo at my birth...going by true observation, true solar positions.

And just looked into what you said...I dont think that is right even on sidereal. I dont see tropical Virgo over lapping into Cancer at all.

But thanks for the thought!

LV

edit on 15-1-2011 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)

LeoVirgo, Your Sun is at about 13 and a half degrees Sidereal Cancer. Your Tropical Sun is at almost 7 degrees Leo. That you are not aware that the Sidereal Zodiac is more than 20 degrees behind the Tropical, should not surprise me. Approximate dates for Sidereal Cancer are July 15 to Aug 16 (this varies from one year to the next, as does the Tropical). You say you were born on July 30, 1975.

Your Sun is not in Virgo, but if you wish to believe this and create your own Astrology, you are welcome to do so. There's always room for experiment. The Zodiacal Signs are symbolic and do not always align perfectly with the star constellations, even in Sidereal (which is much closer than Tropical). The meaning of the Zodiacal signs is based on observation over a VERY long time.

SeaWind

I see where we miscrossed paths...my birthdate was Aug 30 '75...not July.

Maybe that is why we werent seeing the same on sidereal.

To further on why I dont follow the sidereal, even though I find it better then the tropical...is I use the real true positions from Earths perspectives...I give each sign their true degrees (like Scorpio is very small). I use 13 signs for the solar wheel then also include a outside wheel for planets and moon that leave the solar path and enter signs like Cetus, Serpens, Sextans, Bootes, Coma Berenices, and sometimes include the cusp of Orion if needed. There are 3 days out of the year the Sun rides the cusp of Orion and I include that. This past lunar eclipse, the Moon sat on Orion's cusp...so again, I include that.

Hi Leo/Virgo,

Thank you for the correction. I think I got 30 July 1975 from one of your posts. In any case, you are definitely a Leo using either the Sidereal (Fagan-Bradley) or IAU Zodiacs.

I realize "Walter Berg" has written at least one book on the 13 signs zodiac, is there software that supports the 13 signs? Or do you have to do the calculations manually? Do they issue an IAU emphemeris? Is there a website devoted to "Bergian" Astrology?

Ophiuchus as the 13th sign has been around for decades. Ophiuchus as a part of the sign of Scorpio has been around for AGES.

Apparently, you're completely sold on the superiority of using the IAU Zodiac.

ALL types of Astrology use REAL astronomical data in their charts (even Tropical), but the positions are seen thru the framework of twelve 30 degree signs. The signs are symbolic and have MEANING accrued thru observation over a long period of time. The problem with Tropical is that it ignores Precession.

The Tropical Zodiac is aligned with the Vernal Equinox (which determines the Seasons) and is NOT completely worthless, especially for work that depends on the seasonal tides. However, (since I'm a Siderealist) I do NOT consider the Tropical useful for Natal readings.

SeaWind

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Is this some kind of astrological wheel? I'm not familiar with them, but I mean, if you were born on August 17, 1985, you were born under that sign no matter what, there's nothing you can do to change that, unless you go back in time and somehow "move" the constellations (impossible) so I don't see how this can affect anyone who isn't a newborn

Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Is this some kind of astrological wheel? I'm not familiar with them, but I mean, if you were born on August 17, 1985, you were born under that sign no matter what, there's nothing you can do to change that, unless you go back in time and somehow "move" the constellations (impossible) so I don't see how this can affect anyone who isn't a newborn

Because the Sun has been passing through this new sign for a few thousand years and so anyone born during those dates was born at a time when the sun was in Ophiucus. Its just that we were told we were born under Scorpio/Sagittarius because Ophiucus wasn't an accepted part of the Zodiac. The point is that people have known about this for a long time but Astrologers/Vatican/whoever else didn't want it changed.

Its like living your whole life thinking your parents were your biological ones but then one day they tell you that you were adopted. Maybe not to the same extent though, hehe.

Here's what fantastic writer and astrologer Rob Breszny has to say about it. True he's an invested astrologer, but he is one that is open minded enough to call things like they are.

Here We Go Again with the "Zodiac Is Wrong" Scam (There's more info about this issue on my site: www.freewillastrology.com...) News Flash: The zodiac isn't wrong. Your sign isn't changing. Ignore the misinformation. Every year or so, another astronomer erupts into the mainstream media with a portentous announcement about how, due to the precession of the equinoxes, the astrological signs are no longer aligned with the actual constellations. Often the supposed 13th constellation, Ophiuchus, is also invoked as a further proof of how delusional astrologers are. What it means, according to these experts, is that astrology is invalid. Most of the people who think they're Tauruses are actually Aries. Most Scorpios are really Libras. And so on. That latest offering is from Parke Kunkle, a board member of the Minnesota Planetarium Society. "When [astrologers] say that the sun is in Pisces," he speculated, "it's really not in Pisces." His supposition hit the Internet recently, on Gawker gawker.com... and the Minneapolis Star Tribune www.startribune.com... , among other places. I understand that scientists like him would prefer not to lower themselves to the task of actually doing research about how astrology works. But if they're going to question its foundations, they should at least learn it well enough to know what they're talking about. Here, briefly, is the lowdown on what certain astronomers are too lazy to find out for themselves. The astrological signs are not defined by the constellations you see in the sky. In antiquity, when both astrological and astronomical thinking were based on insufficient data, the names of the constellations happened to be paired with the astrological signs. Today, those pairings are no longer in sync: Astrological signs do not line up with the constellations in the same way they did way back then, due to the precession of the equinoxes. Modern Western astrologers understand this perfectly. It 's irrelevant to their work because the information upon which they base their hypotheses does not involve a study of distant stars or constellations. Rather, their data have to do with the movements of the planets in our own solar system within a zone of influence defined by the relationship between the Earth and Sun. The key demarcation points in that relationship are the equinoxes and solstices. At the Northern Hemisphere's vernal equinox, which occurs on about March 20th of each year, the Sun enters into the sign of Aries. At the Northern Hemisphere's summer solstice, the sun enters into the sign of Cancer. The locations of the constellations are irrelevant; the "influence of the stars" isn't considered. To reiterate: Western astrologers don't work with stars or constellations. Their focus is our solar system. They study the patterns of the planets and the moon as they pass through 12 zones defined by the relationship between the Earth and sun. Those zones have the same names as constellations because of a historical quirk, but they are unrelated to the constellations. When Parke Kunkle triumphantly says, "There is no physical connection between constellations and personality traits," as if he has finally stamped out the delusions of us astrologers, he doesn't realize that we agree with him completely. We don't deal with constellations. P.S. There haven't been many corrective articles in the mainstream press -- most publications have been content to let their un-fact-checked stories stand as if they were gospel -- but the New York Times and the Daily Beast did have the journalistic integrity to make a stab: nyti.ms... andwww.thedailybeast.com...:mainpromo7 .

Originally posted by ledzeppelin489
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Is this some kind of astrological wheel? I'm not familiar with them, but I mean, if you were born on August 17, 1985, you were born under that sign no matter what, there's nothing you can do to change that, unless you go back in time and somehow "move" the constellations (impossible) so I don't see how this can affect anyone who isn't a newborn

ledzeppelin489, Your Sun is in Leo under BOTH the Tropical & Sidereal Zodiacs. Your Moon is probably in Leo as well, making you a Double Leo. If you want your Ascendant and degree of your Moon, etc., you can U2U me with your birthplace & birth time. It's free. I am a Sidereal Astrologer. Your chart is a picture of the sky at the time you were born, as seen FROM your birth place. The birth place is ESSENTIAL.

My ATS thread , "Your True Star Signs," on this topic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read my first three posts on this topic. I'm trying to clear up this mess.

SeaWind

Originally posted by Cecilofs
Because the Sun has been passing through this new sign for a few thousand years and so anyone born during those dates was born at a time when the sun was in Ophiucus. Its just that we were told we were born under Scorpio/Sagittarius because Ophiucus wasn't an accepted part of the Zodiac. The point is that people have known about this for a long time but Astrologers/Vatican/whoever else didn't want it changed.

Its like living your whole life thinking your parents were your biological ones but then one day they tell you that you were adopted. Maybe not to the same extent though, hehe.

Cecilofs, Ophiuchus has always been incorporated with Scorpio. It most strongly affects those born between Nov 29 and Dec 15 (on the Sidereal Zodiac using the Fagan-Bradley Precession Rate).

The Tropical Zodiac used by the West was NOT adjusted for Precession. IAU zodiac is used by those who follow "Walter Berg" astrology & the 13 signs. It appears he wrote as least one book on this, but I do not have anymore info on this at this time.

The Sidereal Zodiac used by astrologers is SYMBOLIC and does NOT pretend to align perfectly with the constellations. ALL forms of astrology use correct astronomical info, but the ZODIACAL GRID used to see this data varies. Astrology is the "Sacred Art" of reading MEANING in the stars.

With all due respect, Leo/Virgo discovered a few years ago that the Tropical Zodiac does NOT align with the constellations and has tried to "shout this from the rooftop." All well and good, the more people who know this the better, I do not use the Tropical. Unfortunately, Leo/Virgo is NOT an astrologer -- which is quickly apparent when you look at her thread "energies of the cosmos" -- and the info Leo/Virgo is throwing out is merely raw astronomical data.

One of the most basic errors that is apparent in the Leo/Virgo thread is that L/V does NOT ask for birth place or birth time. These are ESSENTIAL pieces of info needed to erect a chart BECAUSE the chart is a picture of the sky taken the MOMENT you are born from the PLACE you are born. The MOST IMPORTANT signs are missing: the degree of the Ascendant (Rising Sign) and the Moon Sign. Both are MORE IMPORTANT than the Sun Sign.

I started my ATS thread in an attempt to clear this up:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

SeaWind

Originally posted by coyotepoet
Here's what fantastic writer and astrologer Rob Breszny has to say about it. True he's an invested astrologer, but he is one that is open minded enough to call things like they are.

if they're going to question its foundations, they should at least learn it well enough to know what they're talking about. Here, briefly, is the lowdown on what certain astronomers are too lazy to find out for themselves. The astrological signs are not defined by the constellations you see in the sky. In antiquity, when both astrological and astronomical thinking were based on insufficient data, the names of the constellations happened to be paired with the astrological signs. Today, those pairings are no longer in sync: Astrological signs do not line up with the constellations in the same way they did way back then, due to the precession of the equinoxes. Modern Western astrologers understand this perfectly. It 's irrelevant to their work because the information upon which they base their hypotheses does not involve a study of distant stars or constellations. Rather, their data have to do with the movements of the planets in our own solar system within a zone of influence defined by the relationship between the Earth and Sun. The key demarcation points in that relationship are the equinoxes and solstices. At the Northern Hemisphere's vernal equinox, which occurs on about March 20th of each year, the Sun enters into the sign of Aries. At the Northern Hemisphere's summer solstice, the sun enters into the sign of Cancer. The locations of the constellations are irrelevant; the "influence of the stars" isn't considered. To reiterate: Western astrologers don't work with stars or constellations. Their focus is our solar system. They study the patterns of the planets and the moon as they pass through 12 zones defined by the relationship between the Earth and sun. Those zones have the same names as constellations because of a historical quirk, but they are unrelated to the constellations.

Coyotepoet, unlike Rob Breszny, I do NOT use the Tropical Zodiac -- I'm a Sidereal Astrologer. When Breszny says his focus is the solar system what he means is that his focus is on the Sun Sign, using the Tropical Zodiac which aligns itself with the Vernal Equinox as the Aries Ingress.

There are many different Sidereal zodiacs (depending on which precession rate is used or what Fixed Star is used for alignment) -- all are much closer to the IAU zodiac than the Tropical. But in Sidereal Astrology, both the Ascendant (Rising Sign) and Moon Sign are MORE IMPORTANT than the Sun Sign.

But I agree that the zodiacal grid used to look at the sky -- in order to READ MEANING into the chart -- is largely SYMBOLIC, as even most of the sidereal zodiacs used -- do NOT align perfectly with the constellations.
This is a concept that seems to escape Leo/Virgo, who is clearly NOT an Astrologer.

I tried to clear up this mess in my ATS thread, "Your True Star Signs: What You Need to Know":

www.abovetopsecret.com...

SeaWind

reply to post by SeaWind


Thanks for the clarity. Astrology isn't something that I've spent a lot of time studying. However, as things go I always read four horoscopes which usually fit: I've got Gemini rising and a Leo sun sign so I always read those. Currently I am a progressed Virgo so I pay attention to that, and the Human Design System (interesting in itself) has a slightly different take on plantary influence timing and has me as a Cancer. I generally find something of value in all of them.

reply to post by reddsite


anyway i dont believe zodiac changes unless sun totaly crosses paths or sun of that seson changes to nother sign so i believe old zodiac still good for long time, or aries makes it to second house