Ophiuchus, the 13th Zodiac Sign

reply to post by mutly


I would say its more of a 'realigning' to the cosmos....then to offer you traits or a personality reading.

Which is why I tell people to seek within them, what something means for them.

As you observe the night sky, and notice a planet in a certain place...it gives you a direction, a pattern to observe, a alignment of your own self, to the Universe...which we are all of.

I feel a different energy from each planet.....the 'signs' give me a 'location' so I can observe.

Plus, for those deeper thinkers...you have to consider, the Spirit is ALL wisdom. So at your birth, the Spirit of you, the IAM that fills your being....knows and IS of all the positions. So we each have our own 'cosmic' print if you will...and aligning to 'life' in all things can bring people to great awakenings or knowings of what they need to work on in life. You can consider that this 'all knowing spirit' knew of the Sun being before a certain man made sign at your birth...even if that sign is man made, with a name and a meaning...the Spirit still knows of this and may indeed use this, in your life.

There is something magical about realigning to the cosmos, observing the spheres, knowing their directions and patterns. We, as energy...are amongst a madrid of other energies that surround us. Everything is energy...and you are a part of it.

Some will use the cosmos, some will use other things in nature, some will use earthly books, the choices are many.

I'm always be a Leo ;-), but with this 13th Zodiac Sign my sister turned Leo.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
We are all of all the signs. We can take leaps in life...by going through them and seeing and facing what we need to work on. I know people like to keep to one sign....but we should not limit ourselves when on the deeper less traveled path. If people thing they are ready for leaps...look through all the signs...find what you need to work on and be honest about it within your self. Honesty within, is very important when wanting to 'leap' instead of just step by step.

Now you have hit on something that I had been thinking. That is despite our birth dates, our lives are spent traveling through all of these signs and celestial positions. If there is any influence by the other celestial bodies of the universe on anyone here on earth it would make sense that that influence is felt by all and all the time.

The other thing I wanted to ask is regarding the constellations and the designation of the signs. When the signs were first described and given names and characters, those seeing and naming did not have the astronomical knowledge and tools available today. How were these stars first grouped? I can imagine that stars were grouped to fit the perceived shape like Cancer in the shape of a crab but do these grouped stars have any other physical relation to each other. For instance is one star 1 light year away and another in the group is 1,000 light years away? Of course I could look this up but there's more to my question than this superficial information. What was the criteria, other than they fit in with the connect-the-dots shape, that caused these constellations to be assigned in the first place? What makes the current constellations valid over me looking up and designating a group of stars as the "Great Chihuahua"? And then assigning characteristics to those born under the collar of the Chihuahua? What made the ancients correct?

This is for LeoVirgo and anyone with some insight or opinion on this.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by Hemisphere


We've also seen depictions of St. Patrick and his staff chasing the snakes out of Ireland. Is this also a parallel to Moses and Ophiuchus?

Snakes are always assumed to be "the bad guys" and sometimes they are. But in the case of St. Patrick, this is a story of domination by might...convert or die...quell the opposition. Who were the snakes? It is supposed that the snakes represent the Pelagians. And why did the Catholic church find the Pelagian "heresy" such a threat?

It is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid. ... Pelagius taught that moral perfection was attainable in this life without the assistance of divine grace through human free will.
en.wikipedia.org...

If people could not be convinced to believe that they needed the instruction and absolution of the church, there would be no big business for the "divine pageantry".

Of course, I knew you would know the answer. It makes perfect sense and that said, me of all skeptics and Irishmen, should have guessed.

This from the Wiki entry on Saint Patrick:

Also during this time, as Milchu his master was a high druid, the young saint became familiar with the details of the aboriginal Irish religions.

And so Patrick and the Church knew all the traditions and symbolism of the peoples they were subjugating.

There's also this on Why Ireland Has No Snakes:

Legend has it that St. Patrick drove all the snakes from Ireland. Sometime back in the fifth century he stood on a hill, the story goes, and used a staff to herd the slithering creatures into the sea, banishing them for eternity. It's true, aside from zoos and pets, there are no snakes on the emerald isle. In fact, there never were any snakes in Ireland. This state of affairs probably has more to do with the vagaries of geography than any neat tricks performed by St. Patty. - nationalzoo.si.edu

It goes on to say that while snakes were evolving in the southern hemisphere, the landmass that would become Ireland was still under water.

You would think I would have looked this up once in my life!?! Oh well, so many questions, so little time.

Thanks for that Alethea!

Originally posted by Jedite
Scientists have to ruin everything, first they take pluto away, then the brontosaurus and then the triceratops and now my sign.... bastards. Well I am not a virgo... never I will stay libra thank you very much. Damn Scientists.

My sentiments exactly! Funny thing is though, I read into my new sign and oddly enough it describes me perfectly I have gone through sort of a metamorphous for a few years, spiritual, mental, physical. Now I get this new zodiac sign which fits the new me perfectly?? Strange indeed!

Not a big fan of the Zodiac, but..

13 x 28 = 364. +1 day of "The Big Celebration" when time is not counted = 365 days.

Women's periods go in 28 day cycles. It's the nature's calendar. I actually started a thread about this earlier, but never mind that. Makes perfect sense. Just on what is the modern Christian calendar based on? Think about that.

____

Check out this site: www.13moon.com...

A bit new agey, I know, but if not for anything else, for cool artwork

Originally posted by Alethea
Why do we see the Phoenix represented in the political arena as well as the churches?

The person who wrote that can kindly f' right off and get their head tested. That's stupid. They say :

"PHOENIX BIRD SHOWN TO BE SYMBOL OF THE FALSE MESSIAH"

And then go on a rant about the history of it, but it's just stupid. Some of these people will crap all over anything unless it's Jesus, and I find it disgusting. Have felt an affinity with the Phoenix for years now too and won't be agreeing with any of that at all. (edit : just messaged the site and told them what I think.)

Anyway, was just going to link this, sorry if it's already been added. Was scanning through the thread but stopped at that Phoenix thing and had to comment on it :

And what is his take on the 'new' zodiac sign Ophiuchus that has set the Internet on fire? It's an old hoax originating from a science fiction novel, he says.

"This is an old hoax. Historically, Ophiuchus has never been listed as a constellation in the sidereal zodiac. It is a constellation out there, but it’s off the ecliptic (that is, it’s not along the path of the Sun through the sky). I’ve read that Ptolemy mentions it in his literature as an off-zodiac constellation, meaning that the Sun never travels through it. In any event, there are some two dozen constellations that touch the ecliptic; but the sidereal zodiac uses just 12 of them.”

I can't link, sorry. The link is long and won't work for some reason on this site, it creates a link but has something wrong with the code, and if I try to use a url shortener I get the message 'no link tracking' So you'll have to google : Astrologers strike back: New zodiac sign Ophiuchus is an old hoax

reply to post by JoseChung


Most of Ophiuchus is above the eliptic....but there several of its stars below it...so yes, the elliptic path cuts through Ophiuchus.

The Sun spends 16-17 days in Ophiuchus. More days then it spends in little Scorpio, which is only a weeks time.

And of course western astrologers are going to strike back....

But in all reality, they use a imaginary wheel that does not represent the sky at all.

In days of old, people observed the sky and reflected life and purpose with their observations.

Do you really think in days of old...that they would of noticed Saturn in Virgo but then said it was in Libra....No.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by JoseChung

 

Most of Ophiuchus is above the eliptic....but there several of its stars below it...so yes, the elliptic path cuts through Ophiuchus.

The Sun spends 16-17 days in Ophiuchus. More days then it spends in little Scorpio, which is only a weeks time.

edit : sorry, just seen your second post. Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by SeaWind

 

Sidereal has its own mistakes....

The Sun would of been seen in Leo at my birth...going by true observation, true solar positions.

And just looked into what you said...I dont think that is right even on sidereal. I dont see tropical Virgo over lapping into Cancer at all.

But thanks for the thought!

LV

edit on 15-1-2011 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)

LeoVirgo, Your Sun is at about 13 and a half degrees Sidereal Cancer. Your Tropical Sun is at almost 7 degrees Leo. That you are not aware that the Sidereal Zodiac is more than 20 degrees behind the Tropical, should not surprise me. Approximate dates for Sidereal Cancer are July 15 to Aug 16 (this varies from one year to the next, as does the Tropical). You say you were born on July 30, 1975.

Your Sun is not in Virgo, but if you wish to believe this and create your own Astrology, you are welcome to do so. There's always room for experiment. The Zodiacal Signs are symbolic and do not always align perfectly with the star constellations, even in Sidereal (which is much closer than Tropical). The meaning of the Zodiacal signs is based on observation over a VERY long time.

SeaWind

reply to post by Hemisphere


Hemisphere, here's the link to my ATS thread on this topic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

SeaWind

reply to post by Hemisphere

Now 13th, how do we reconcile that the months as we know them were named for the Caesars and Latin numbers? Julius, Augustus, septem (Latin for 7), octo (Latin for 8) and novem (Latin for 9).

In brushing up on that, I found that the 13th zodiac is actually the 10th (bringing the number up to 13). If the 10th zodiac falls in November (the 9th month), does that mean there really is the 13th month of Smarch (simpsons reference)?

This is a a reprint of a few posts I made in a similar thread:

This is interesting. I read something about this a number of months ago from a different angle, didn't dig deeper into it until the OP caught my attention. What caught my eye about this thread was an article I read about the Illuminati bloodlines and how they connect to the reptilians:

Each of the 13 ruling families has a Council of 13 as well. The number, 13, has great significance to them. They know that there are 12 types of energies that pass through the 10 aspects of God-Mind. The totality of the 12 energies equals a 13th energy. This is considered the most powerful knowledge. They also know that there are really 13 Zodiac signs, not the commonly acknowledged 12. They have kept the 13th hidden for centuries because it is the sign of the Dragon. They keep the qualities and traits of this sign secret to avoid giving away clues to the Reptilian mind-pattern.

Just doing some light wiki research on it, here is what it says about the mythology:

There exist a number of theories as to whom the figure represents. The most recent interpretation is that the figure represents the healer Asclepius, who learned the secrets of keeping death at bay after observing one serpent bringing another healing herbs. To prevent the entire human race from becoming immortal under Asclepius' care, Zeus killed him with a bolt of lightning, but later placed his image in the heavens to honor his good works. It has also been noted that the constellation Ophiuchus is close to that of Sagittarius, which has at times been believed to represent Chiron (the mentor of Asclepius and many other Greek demigods), though Chiron was originally associated with the constellation Centaurus. Another possibility is that the figure represents the Trojan priest Laocoön, who was killed by a pair of sea serpents sent by the gods after he warned the Trojans not to accept the Trojan Horse. This event was also memorialized by the sculptors Agesander, Athenodoros, and Polydorus in the famous marble sculpture Laocoön and his Sons, which stands in the Vatican Museums. A third possibility is Apollo wrestling with the Python to take control of the oracle at Delphi. A fourth is the story of Phorbas, a Thessalonian who rescued the people of the island of Rhodes from a plague of serpents and was granted a place in the sky in honor of this deed. According to Gavin White, Ophiuchus may represent the Babylonian constellation known as the Sitting Gods (Mul.Dingir.Tush.A.Mesh), which he proposes was originally a human figure whose legs have been replaced by the tail of a huge serpent.[8]

and a yahoo answers list of traits for Ophiuchus edited down to the salient ones to hone my point

Ophiuchus is also known as Serpentarius. It is the sign of the Goddess and usually represented by a woman (but sometimes a priest) holding two snakes. Even though most signs don't have much in common with the ones next to them, Ophiuchus is supposed to be a combination of Sagittarius and Scorpio. Ophiuchus is supposed to have the following traits: Extremely curious, Sexually magnetic, Extremely jealous, Passionate, Irresponsible, Explosive temper, Rebellious, Secretive, Egotistical, Noncommital, Has a thirst for knowledge

and another astrologer's elaboration: "It is blend of Scorpio and Sagittarius (Knowledge (sagi) of hidden forces (sco)). "

here are some more salient traits:

LIST OF KEY WORDS DESCRIBING THE SIGN OF OPHIUCHUS * interpreter of dreams, vivid premonitions, * serpent holder, lofty ideals, * adds, increases, joins, or gathers together * seeks higher education and wisdom, * overseer, supervisor of work, * fame - either grand, or completely misunderstood, * architect, builder, reaches for the stars, figuratively and literally, * tax assessor, or levys taxes, * astrological talents, intuitive, * large family indicated, but apt to be separated from them when young, * the number twelve holds great significance, * foresight and good fortune to benefit from hard times, * has secret enemies in family or close associations, * many jealous of this subject, * notable father, apple of father's eye when young, * high position in life expected * feelings of granular, wise, genius mentality, * receives the favor of those in authority.

It's Tarot correspondence (I'm going somewhere with this, I promise) is #16 The Tower it's descriptive phrases and sources are:
Golden Dawn: ambition, fighting, war, courage; in certain combinations, destruction, danger
Waite: Distress, disgrace, deception, ruin, imprisonment
Crowley: Quarrel, combat, danger
Case: Conflict
The Tower is ruled by Mars, the god of war. It's color is Scarlet.

The Babylonian recognition of the sign:

"The even older Babylonian version is slightly different. Here the serpent is Tiamat, the Monster of the Bitter Ocean. Holding Tiamat is Marduk, the Sun God of the Babylonians. They are doing battle together in the eternal fight of good against evil. "

The other correspondences are just as interesting:

It is 5 on the Sephiroth.

Alternate Tarot:
The Pope-will power which holds in check and governs life given
The Emperor-the severity of the warrior

Geometrical Shape: Pentagon (like our military pentagon), and pentagram

Magical archetype: A mighty warrior in his chariot armed

Magickal images: sword, spear, chain, scourge, pentagon, 5-petaled rose

Name of God: Elohim Gibor-The god of strength, the gods of war

Golden Dawn Yetzirah Angels: Seraphim-Flaming Serpents (like Quetzocoatl)
Archdemon: Asmodeus-King of Men
from the inverted tree of life: Golohab-Coal burners
(interestingly the Archdemon and Inverted tree for #3 is Lucifer-The Morning Star and Satariel-Concealers)

Theosophical lower world: Sutala (Mind struggling with desire)-a big power and control theme
Crowley's Magickal powers: Vision of power

Yggdrasil tree: 7th world Muspellsheim-Fiery world of Flame Gods
Egyptian god: Horus
Greek: Hades
Roman: Mars

Pike's aspects of God and Man: Law, Justice, finite, evil, dark

State of Consciousness: Sternness and control, sleep

On the Hands: the right middle finger (appropriate)

Crowley's perfume: Dragon's Blood

Alchemy: Sulfur

Why make a big msm deal out of it now when the constellation has existed for a long time? Either it's a coming out party of sorts or it signals a return to the 13 lunar months 13:20:33 ratio, which is a good thing (from the 12:60:72 ratio we have been living under with the Gregorian calendar.)

Not saying one thing or another about the legitimacy of the information (except for the correspondences portion, which I know to be true.) But...it's interesting to think about these traits in regards to the Illuminati/PTB and the "Reptilian" mindset especially what they have shown us of themselves by their actions. Just sayin'...

I'm still a Leo

But... my thoughts are this.... our zodiac is based on the year we were born... right? So unless we are being born in the present then we wouldn't be affected, correct?

Originally posted by SeaWind

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by SeaWind

 

Sidereal has its own mistakes....

The Sun would of been seen in Leo at my birth...going by true observation, true solar positions.

And just looked into what you said...I dont think that is right even on sidereal. I dont see tropical Virgo over lapping into Cancer at all.

But thanks for the thought!

LV

edit on 15-1-2011 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)

LeoVirgo, Your Sun is at about 13 and a half degrees Sidereal Cancer. Your Tropical Sun is at almost 7 degrees Leo. That you are not aware that the Sidereal Zodiac is more than 20 degrees behind the Tropical, should not surprise me. Approximate dates for Sidereal Cancer are July 15 to Aug 16 (this varies from one year to the next, as does the Tropical). You say you were born on July 30, 1975.

Your Sun is not in Virgo, but if you wish to believe this and create your own Astrology, you are welcome to do so. There's always room for experiment. The Zodiacal Signs are symbolic and do not always align perfectly with the star constellations, even in Sidereal (which is much closer than Tropical). The meaning of the Zodiacal signs is based on observation over a VERY long time.

SeaWind

I see where we miscrossed paths...my birthdate was Aug 30 '75...not July.

Maybe that is why we werent seeing the same on sidereal.

To further on why I dont follow the sidereal, even though I find it better then the tropical...is I use the real true positions from Earths perspectives...I give each sign their true degrees (like Scorpio is very small). I use 13 signs for the solar wheel then also include a outside wheel for planets and moon that leave the solar path and enter signs like Cetus, Serpens, Sextans, Bootes, Coma Berenices, and sometimes include the cusp of Orion if needed. There are 3 days out of the year the Sun rides the cusp of Orion and I include that. This past lunar eclipse, the Moon sat on Orion's cusp...so again, I include that.

I'd like to thank LeoVirgo for shattering my reality.

I learned how to do natal (tropical) astrology charts when I was a teenager, and I've done them for my friends and family for years. So, naturally, I was really annoyed when people started posting about their "new zodiac signs" on my FB news feed. I looked it up and discovered the CNN article calling it all a "hoax". I've known about Ophiuchus for a while, but I had no idea is was more prevalent (so to speak) than Scorpio.

It makes complete sense that the 'astrologers' would refute this. I wanted to myself, because that's easier than reworking our whole 'system' of astrology. They've all written books and made a lot of money, and it has been completely wrong. I've never made money off of it, thankfully, or I would feel horrible right now.

Maybe it is, as LeoVirgo (I think) said, time to reunite astrology and astronomy. I can understand the possible reasons for the 12-sign system, it's easier. But now we have the technology to calculate astrology/astronomy exactly. Why shouldn't we?

I might even have to agree with the poster who suggested changing to a 13-month calendar. Our calendar is messed up anyway. I think we could do these things more efficiently and accurately today.

This is blowing my mind!

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

Now 13th, how do we reconcile that the months as we know them were named for the Caesars and Latin numbers? Julius, Augustus, septem (Latin for 7), octo (Latin for 8) and novem (Latin for 9).

In brushing up on that, I found that the 13th zodiac is actually the 10th (bringing the number up to 13). If the 10th zodiac falls in November (the 9th month), does that mean there really is the 13th month of Smarch (simpsons reference)?

Thanks CP! Smarch, hmmmm? Comes in like a smarshmallow and out like s'more?

reply to post by coyotepoet


Thanks for that extensive post coyotepoet. You've touched on numerous conspiracy hot spots. The Illuminati bloodlines and the Vatican among my personal favorites. I have to say that in going through the various traits of my "new"/old sign, Ophiuchus, very few of the descriptive points ring a bell with me. The exception though is "sexual magnetism". That is definitively one of my manly charms, at least I keep telling that to the Mrs. but up until now she's not buyin' it. On the strength of these new astrological attributes maybe she'll finally be convinced. (Hey, a guy can hope!) The other interesting word that popped up in all of that descriptive material was "sulfur". I have an allergy to sulfur and sulfa-based drugs. Go figure!

Again, thanks for the contribution. I think there will be much interest and comments on that material.

Originally posted by SeaWind
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

Hemisphere, here's the link to my ATS thread on this topic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

SeaWind

Thank you SeaWind! I read through a good portion of your thread. You certainly have the history down and it seems to me that you have the "readings" of these charts down. Is "readings" what this is called? Please excuse me if I have that wrong.

My question still stands for you and all of those astrologically inclined contributing to this thread. How were the signs and attributes designated? And if you'll allow me to add to that, how do the stars and constellations physically affect us here on earth? What is the mechanism?