It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Science is FINALLY recognizing something supernatural!

page: 2
14
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 11:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by kwakakev
From the data I have seen it is beyond reasonable doubt that something is going on. While all attempts are not 100% successful it is above that of chance alone. The only way we will work it out is to let science go for it, let the debates rage and the numbers decide. If we are to move into space travel and the unknown then it would be a very handy skill indeed. For those interested, the double blind scientific methodology has withstood the most stringent peer review in this area.
edit on 13-1-2011 by kwakakev because: added sentence about double blind


What data?

To think that our whole life is predictable...then we really have no choices, we are just puppets acting through a play on a stage.




posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 11:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by 19rn50
The bible tells about the supernatural 2000 yrs., ago.
Now scientists, just beginning to see the light!



The key word there is 'tells'.....not proved or shown.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 11:34 AM
link   
reply to post by ExPostFacto
 





It is easy to sit in a stream of events and feel what the probabilities are.


Sure...there are many stream of events that we can see a greater possibility of a 'happening' in the future moreso then other possibilities...but is this really esp/telepathy?

We can look at the Bible for example...a people believed a certain land belonged to them given to them by God. Is it then hard to predict the wars and battles and bloodshed that will occur in and over that land? Nope...not hard at all.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 11:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by SaturnFX
and my general response is...and ESP is not fortune telling in the same respect.
And ESP probably has a better chance of being proven than fortune telling.

But that's what this paper proposes, that people can see the future. That's why this paper in particular raises the stock market/casino question.

A paper about just ESP wouldn't do that, because ESP normally won't help too much.

Neither ESP nor fortune telling has been proven, but if one of them ever is, it's more likely to be ESP which wouldn't violate the time travel paradox problems.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 11:58 AM
link   
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Thats precisely why the Jewish sages never refer to Kabbalah as mysticism.

Its logic. albeit, a logic dealing with metaphysical matters. But nonethless logcial. We dont need the poliotically correct scientific establishment to establish our views.

Taosim, buddhism, gnosticism, vedanta etc is mysticism ie; absorbed in the irrational



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 12:15 PM
link   
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


We will have to see what the paper states as a conclusion. Although, I think it may just be this sense of what is to be expected based on non scientific evidence. People can predict certain events will transpire. Some are more accurate. Even those that claim they are psychic state each person has free-will to alter that path. Nothing is predetermined, yet everything can be determined based on state of mind and how close a relation the state of mind is to some event. There are too many stories of people avoiding dangerous situations based on some feeling they get. When they listen to that feeling inside them often they avoid the danger. Coincidence, maybe. However, it is just as possible that they were able to assemble some feelings in a manner that predicted the event based on very little if any observable evidence. We will see what the findings of this study suggest. It will be interesting discussions at the very least.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 12:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by kwakakev
From the data I have seen it is beyond reasonable doubt that something is going on. While all attempts are not 100% successful it is above that of chance alone. The only way we will work it out is to let science go for it, let the debates rage and the numbers decide.
Actually the replication attempts have NOT been above chance alone.

One of them is online, you can participate in the replication experiment and see if you can tell the future. I didn't do so well at telling the future though I've had some anecdotal ESP-type experiences before that involved the present instead of the future.

Here's the site for the test:

consumerbehaviorlab.com...

And here's what my results said:


We have calculated your ESP ability as 0%. This score can range from anywhere from -100%, indicating that you exclusively recalled words that would not be not practiced to 100%, indicating that you exclusively recalled words that would be practiced. A score of 0% indicates that you recalled as many words that you would have practiced as words that you would not practice. A positive score is suggestive of ESP.

So far, 1109 people have completed this study and their average score is -0.35%.

This study investigated the ESP phenomenon known as Retroactive Facilitation of Recall. The basic idea is the studying after taking a memory test helps with the tests (even though the studying happens after the test period). This specific experiment is an attempt to replicate an existing finding which already documents this phenomenon. If you are interested in learning about this more, please see this paper:

Bem, D. J. (in press), "Feeling the Future: Experimental Evidence for Anomalous Retroactive Influences on Cognition and Affect." Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
So out of 1109 participants so far, the net effect is close to zero, though I think earlier in the study with a smaller sample size the average was above zero, but that could have been due to random chance.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 04:22 PM
link   
To the OP...

'Peer review' is a tactic that has been used since the beginning of the educational facilities to suppress ideas that were dangerous to the status quo. Now people are stuck with a false sense of reality, due to a few.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 04:25 PM
link   
Maybe it's not supernatural in nature; maybe it's just something natural that we have yet to understand, and therefore it is automatically relegated to the supernatural and woo-woo.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 05:18 PM
link   
Took the test:

1.56%.

Still don't get the point.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 05:45 PM
link   
This is cool but science is dependent on physical evidence, its part of the definition of the scientific method. If im gonna be convinced that someone actually has full control over esp abilities, then I need to see them predict events with no clues or leads as to what they are supposed to get. Spontanious and 100% accurate predictions occuring frequently (and randomly) over a long period of time is prob the only way this will be widely accepted



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 05:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by sixswornsermon
Took the test:

1.56%.

Still don't get the point.
I had to read Bem's paper to figure that out myself.

The bottom of the test results page references his paper and it's explained there.

Glad to see you got a positive score, the average of the 1100 some participants was going negative when I took it. Scores like yours may help bring the average back up to zero at least!

edit on 13-1-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Hmm. I have my own opinions concerning ESP , psychic ability and such.

In my experiences, it does not occur on a conscious level, so tests like these are useless IMO.

I hate to be a skeptic out of habit, but I'm not sure stuff like this can be quantitative.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 09:24 PM
link   
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 




Actually the replication attempts have NOT been above chance alone.


I have read a great book from when parapsychology was an accepted university faculty back in the 1960-70 era. Stamford was one university exploring this. Things where getting a little weird near the end and it faculty shut down, sounds like the research continued within the black military projects. If I can find the name of the book I will post it.

There have been other studies where millions of predictions attempts have been aggregate with around a 50.5% chance the right decision will be selected out of two options across the population. My view of the state of parapsychology today is that similar to the UFO topic with a disinformation campaign to help cloud the issue, raise doubt and attempt to maintain the advantage for those with the information.

A relaxed state is important to improve success, there are many factors involved.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 10:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by kwakakev
There have been other studies where millions of predictions attempts have been aggregate with around a 50.5% chance the right decision will be selected out of two options across the population.
50.5% isn't that high, and the sample size has to be quite large to rule out that being a random chance occurrence.

If you flip a coin 10 times, it's amazing how often you can get unpredicted results like 8 heads and 2 tails. You have to do well over 1000 flips to ensure the test gets close to the correct answer.

The tests in this study were much more significant with a percentage as high as 53%. As one of the critics of the paper pointed out, the house edge at the roulette wheel because of the green 0 is 51.5%, so with 53% accuracy you should be able to beat the house edge at the roulette wheel predicting red or black. But if you have to be in a relaxed state for it to work I guess nobody can relax at the roulette wheel, maybe too much excitement?

I did notice that online test required a relaxation period before proceeding, so obviously the test incorporates that relaxation period also.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 11:19 PM
link   
i understand, there test methods are not sound and you could maybe get the same results as flipping a coin, however i see the whole thing as being significant just because they are actually starting to study something that you can't gain knowledge in with your senses

you cant see it with a telescope or microscope
you cant touch it
you cant smell it
you cant taste it
and you hear it

but science is looking into it, regardless of the effectiveness of their studies, i see it as progress. This being a new field of actual study, it WILL take time to find acceptable tests and experiments, but they're moving in a new direction.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by iSHRED
i see the whole thing as being significant just because they are actually starting to study something that you can't gain knowledge in with your senses
Why do you think they are "starting"? They studied ESP in earnest decades ago. We are approaching the century mark in fact.

Extrasensory perception


One of the first statistical studies of ESP, using card-guessing, was conducted by Ina Jephson, in the 1920s. She reported mixed findings across two studies. More successful experiments were conducted with procedures other than card-guessing



This being a new field of actual study, it WILL take time to find acceptable tests and experiments, but they're moving in a new direction.
No, it's NOT a new field of study, at least not ESP/Psi research. Maybe it was new in the 1930s? That's when it started to be formalized and entered the realm of science:


In the 1930s, at Duke University in North Carolina J. B. Rhine and his wife Louisa tried to develop psychical research into an experimental science. To avoid the connotations of hauntings and the seance room, they renamed it "parapsychology". While Louisa Rhine concentrated on collecting accounts of spontaneous cases, J. B. Rhine worked largely in the laboratory, carefully defining terms such as ESP and psi and designing experiments to test them.


I'm not an expert in the field but from what I've read I think the 1960s saw a lot of research:


In the 1960s, in line with the development of cognitive psychology and humanistic psychology, parapsychologists became increasingly interested in the cognitive components of ESP, the subjective experience involved in making ESP responses, and the role of ESP in psychological life. Memory, for instance, was offered as a better model of psi than perception. This called for experimental procedures that were not limited to Rhine's favoured forced-choice methodology. Free-response measures, such as used by Carington in the 1930s, were developed with attempts to raise the sensitivity of participants to their cognitions. These procedures included relaxation, meditation, REM-sleep, and the Ganzfeld (a mild sensory deprivation procedure). These studies have proved to be even more successful than Rhine's forced-choice paradigm, with meta-analyses evidencing reliable effects, and many confirmatory replication studies.
The big problem with a lot of the research is, many of the replication efforts fail, so when initial, exploratory studies show positive results, the replication studies often don't duplicate the results.

This has happened often enough in ESP/PSI research that there is understandably some skepticism every time a new study comes out, and especially with this one which critics argue is based on exploratory methods rather than confirmatory methods. The sharpshooter fallacy is a problem when that happens which critics have said is a problem with Bem's paper, the topic of this thread.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


you're correct, "new field of study" was bad word choice. But it being involved in mainstream science not closet science is something in itself. Im sure there have been studies on if feces taste better after eating strawberries or oranges, but no one knows of these studies without digging through the internet and books. For them to put this study where people can see it is something in itself.

How i think they would have much better finding if they tested people already claiming to have exercised their abiblties, who know how you use their ESP. They shouldnt just take John and Jane Doe of the street and expect them to get results that prove their hypothesis.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 03:19 PM
link   
Seems like they want to cover their bases in case undeniable proof of ESP is put forward. Noetic science is going to be the 21 century physics.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:04 PM
link   
I been saying this for the last 10+ years !!!!!

Not only is the old biased infrastructure of the old ways of the scientific community about to die (especially with the new blood/graduates coming on the scene)....

But also all the old biased ways of the old religions will also crumble ...and something entirely new and true will emerge!!!!

Exciting times!!!!! Lets just hope that the old dinosaur gate keepers in science continue to die off, which means more innovative research on this exact front will start to be released !!!!



new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join