Obama speech undercuts federal charge for judge's murder

reply to post by whatukno


Oh my God, still?

We are still playing the stupid political dichotomy?

I think it is Bush's fault. Why not? He hasn't been blamed for something in awhile. Lets wax nostalgic.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Ah I see, so to you, no one has any political leanings, we all think the same about every issue, and absolutely zero threats were ever launched by citizens who align themselves on one side of the political spectrum against the other.

So basically the tone and rhetoric of the last two years according to you never happened is that right?

Everyone thinks the exact same on every issue, to you no one has a mind of their own, no one can lean left or right, and we basically are all the same mind. Is this what I am hearing from you?

reply to post by whatukno


Come on now. You know that only you "Librels" still believe there is a left and a right. Conservatives are too smart to believe there is a difference.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Alright, I cannot say what the author of the article's reasonings were, why this could be relevant to the case, but this is my interpretation.

When a prosecution is presented, they must turnover all evidence. Now the federal government is going to try this case first. So the reasoning of why the judge was there, even if it was for a photo op, could be construed as business of the federal government.

BUT, with the President stating that he was there to see his friend, this does not allow a federal prosecution then.

The only thing Obama can do to halt a federal prosecution is to directly tell the Attorney General to not pursue the case. An off-handed and possibly uninformed statement at a memorial cervice is NOT a legal directive. The two simply don't cross.

It seems a lot of people in our government do not care about proper procedure when investigating or prosecuting crime. Procedures are IMPORTANT to not screw up the process. Just like the Sheriff to attempt to say that the vitriol had something to do with this heinous and vile act of an insane criminal. Just because he is insane does not mean he is not a criminal, IMO.

The Sheriff said that because there's a lot of pressure on officials to ignore the obvious truth - that this man was a right-wing terrorist attempting a planned political assassination. So instead we get the "insane lone gunman" horse crap. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd by now noticed that the insane lone gunmen keep going after Democrats and liberals...

This will probably be the show trial of the century.

Meh. We've got ninety years left in this century.

Remember ol Obama's statement in regards to the terrorist trials? Even if found not guilty they would never get out of prison. How is that cognitive dissonance working for everyone so far? By the way, one charge on the first terrorist trial. How did that one work out?

Well, that was 'cause ol' Bush decided that torture was an an acceptable method of interrogation, which resulted in these men being damned certain to turn guns on the US if they got out, even if they were totally innocent beforehand. The whole thing's been a nice charlie foxtrot.

reply to post by Sinnthia


You didn't foam at the mouth or sneer enough when you said "Liberals", try saying it like this...

LIBERALS

That way, people fully understand that you aren't a part of the "False left right paradigm" and understand that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are right about absolutely everything they say.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Ah I see, so to you, no one has any political leanings, we all think the same about every issue, and absolutely zero threats were ever launched by citizens who align themselves on one side of the political spectrum against the other.

So basically the tone and rhetoric of the last two years according to you never happened is that right?

Everyone thinks the exact same on every issue, to you no one has a mind of their own, no one can lean left or right, and we basically are all the same mind. Is this what I am hearing from you?

you can lean whatever way you wish. but the political dichotomy is a sham. In theory, there may be an ideological difference. In reality, a charlatan is a charlatan. As an example, the DNC is considered the more peaceful party, however in Obamas first year in office he had more Predator drone bombings than Bush had in his entire 8 year term. And, just so we are playing fair, the GOP (which is supposed to be the "fiscally conservative party") outspent every prior administration while Bush was in office.

It is a sham. A farce. Complete fiction. But, by all means, continue pretending if you wish.

reply to post by EssenSieMich


One shouldn't get too worked up over a turn of phrase.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
It is a sham. A farce. Complete fiction. But, by all means, continue pretending if you wish.

I guess someone like me that believes in more socially liberal concepts does not exist then because the government is hard to trust from year to year? I do not understand this concept. Why do I still get called a lefty, liberal, moonbat, if there is no difference between me and say someone who listens to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity? Does this mean we can all hug and sing over a Coke together now?

Originally posted by EssenSieMich
Just for clarification. The reason that this matters is that unless it was official business the murder of the Judge could only be charged as a state crime, not a federal crime.

I is a Consitutional Scholar

Albiet a state charge that is being filed the Federal Govt always retains the authourity to seek a Federal charge.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
It is a sham. A farce. Complete fiction. But, by all means, continue pretending if you wish.

I guess someone like me that believes in more socially liberal concepts does not exist then because the government is hard to trust from year to year? I do not understand this concept. Why do I still get called a lefty, liberal, moonbat, if there is no difference between me and say someone who listens to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity? Does this mean we can all hug and sing over a Coke together now?

I am going to restate:

Any "liberal" you elect is going to do just about the same stuff that the conservative choice would do. The only real difference between Obama and Bush is that they look different physically. Effectively, there is no difference. No matter how it works in theory, in practice it always works the same.

Quit being dense. If you honestly do not understand, ask in earnest. But a feigned denseness is not being truthful, and it makes the conversation worthless.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I am going to restate:

Any "liberal" you elect is going to do just about the same stuff that the conservative choice would do. The only real difference between Obama and Bush is that they look different physically. Effectively, there is no difference. No matter how it works in theory, in practice it always works the same.

Quit being dense. If you honestly do not understand, ask in earnest. But a feigned denseness is not being truthful, and it makes the conversation worthless.

Dense? Wow. Maybe you need to make your point clear then. You say the whole left/right thing is a sham. YOUR WORDS. Now you adjust it to only include elected officials? So there really is a left and a right, just not when it comes to elected officials? I am trying to understand. Your insult really helps.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


But I wasn't talking about our elected officials, I was talking about the Joe Sixpacks out there in the USA. But apparently to you, no one can have ideological differences, and apparently to you everyone thinks the exact same. I am not discussing the politicians, I am talking about the people that for the last two years have made a big point of threatening lawmakers and their staff over things like health care reform, shooting at offices, and other acts of vandalism.

I take personal exception to being lumped in together with a group of people who think this sort of behavior is acceptable political discourse.

Obama speech undercuts federal charge for judge's murder

For those you have forgotten or those who have seen sidetracked by off topic posts, I have repeated the topic of this thread.

Please post about the topic and not each other.
Please refrain from off topic meanderings.
Those posts will be removed.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

But I wasn't talking about our elected officials, I was talking about the Joe Sixpacks out there in the USA. But apparently to you, no one can have ideological differences, and apparently to you everyone thinks the exact same. I am not discussing the politicians, I am talking about the people that for the last two years have made a big point of threatening lawmakers and their staff over things like health care reform, shooting at offices, and other acts of vandalism.

I take personal exception to being lumped in together with a group of people who think this sort of behavior is acceptable political discourse.

Then you should have turned away from the people you want to be lumped in with during the entire 8 year "Kill Bush" phase of American politics. You pretend that there is some civility that existed at the beginning of the last decade, seeming to forget a nearly full decade of death threats.

You are free to believe what you want. And I am free to think that such beliefs are small minded and of questionable honesty.

All the "Joe Sixpacks" that you reference do not think independantly. They follow the Soap Opera of American Politics on TV, as if it weren't contrived as a distraction from the fact that there is no red or blue, only purple.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I remember a lot of Impeach Bush bumper stickers and people wanting to arrest Carl Rove. I don't recall a whole lot of people gathering en masse on the national mall with signs saying "We came unarmed, this time."

I don't recall any national political members telling people that "America is ready for another revolution, and you are a part of it" and "Don't retreat, reload"

Of course this group has people out there saying things like this:

@25jamey

There is an underground resistance movement forming right now. We need warriors.

This group is based soley on ACTION!

We're preparing for a serious show of force.

Can you help us recruit?

www.youtube.com...

And thats pretty much one of the only T&C compliant comments in that video. I don't want anything to do with any group that thinks that violent acts or violent revolution is acceptable.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

Also, since most of you are using media as your source. Please give the source of information you are saying to be true, to their source.

CNN, Fox, SKY, MSNBC: All live on the day all day for hours. All reporting the information about Judge Roll's death and why he was at the event. Over and over and over, hour after hour.

ABC, CBS, NBC, BBC, ABC(Australia) - mentioned in every news break and regular news bulletins.

Take your pick and check their archive video for the day of the shooting.

Governor Brewer's remarks to the State Legislature (two days before the memorial in Tucson)

Judge Roll had just come from the light of a Catholic Mass a and confronted the darkness of a madman.

Get Down! Get Down!... ( from the Arizona Daily Star - two days before the memorial in Tucson)

Some two dozen people did stop in, collecting out front of a Safeway store. At 10 a.m. sharp, standing near a banner adorned with her name and the U.S. House of Representatives seal, Giffords began to greet the crowd. Among them were old friends, such as John Roll, a federal judge who put off household chores to go say hello after Mass.

The story even made it to Indonesia, where this entry from Denpasar was blogged on January 9 (which is January 8 in the USA), the day of the shooting, four days before the memorial in Tucson. (The poor English is the result of a computer translation of the original language (probably Bahasa Indonesia, but maybe Balinese)

All Voices: U.S. Federal Judge Shot Dead

Roll that often holding court in the criminal case United States border with Mexico, is being spent his Saturdays like most Americans. He went to church, then shopping, and go home. But when going home, he saw members of the House of Representatives (U.S. House), Gabrielle Giffords, was meeting with constituents outside the supermarket.

So it was well reported ALL OVER THE WORLD, on the day of the shooting. Obama's speech 4 days later has nothing to do with the issue.

Laughner has been charged with 5 Federal Crimes, including the murder of Judge Roll.

The government's contention is that the reason Judge Roll wanted to say hello to Congresswoman Gifford's was to discuss the shortage of court support staff in Arizona and to thank her for her help in getting finance for a new Court House in Yuma.

reply to post by whatukno


Me neither. That is why I have nothing to do with them.

I don't want to see parties even allowed, to be honest. I want the first loyalty to go to the country, not the party.

This whole "lean left", "lean right", even "lean forward" (stupid MSNBC)....i don't want to lean. I want to stand tall, and if i am to move in one direction or the other i want to walk resolutely in that direction.

The People have been primed to think in a specific way. I know...it is hard to change. Rewiring your own brain can be difficult after generations of priming to think in Red and Blue.