Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

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Where is your proof.. How do you know this is true? Jarod Loughner is innocent until proven guilty, there is not much more needed to say... I am not a defense attorney. I just think everyone let Jarod slip away and forgot all about him and he snapped. That is imo.. I feel just as bad for Jarod's wasted life as I do for all of the dead from that day.

I'm not saying he isnt the shooter, but the more I read into this the more a potential conspiracy exists.
It seems JLL may not have been the shooter...
CNN

Dupnik said investigators are not convinced that the suspect came to the supermarket alone. He said investigators were looking for a man seen near the suspect.

Authorities did not know whether the person they sought actually had any connection with Loughner, a law enforcement source told CNN.

Authorities have a piece of evidence that indicates this second individual was in close proximity to the store, the source said, but declined to elaborate.

Investigators were trying to interview witnesses to determine if there was a connection between the two men, the source said.

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I heard there were 2 gunmen involved in the shooting (some guy in his 50s) and that they only caught one of them. I am not naming any sources of that information because it could be wrong and I don't know where that source got the information.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Well in a crime that's usually the first person we question if they are able to talk.
The victim.

You don't question victims of shootings so you would be a terrible investigator.

And that's what you've been doing this whole thread - twisting the meaning of words to paint a false picture.

When someone says they "Question authority" - it doesn't mean they ask authority a question like "what time is it?". It means they DOUBT authority, and for good reason. Authority has power, has motive to attain more power, and so it should be doubted.

Victims, in the context of a mass shooting, you may question them like "hey, what did you see?" Then once you've gathered all the stories, unless you have reason to, you don't DOUBT their stories. And in this event, if you are DOUBTING victims for no reason, I'm pretty sure it would be you who would be the "terrible investigator".

See how you twisted the obvious meaning of my words? You've been trolling this thread from beginning to end.

Oh, here we go, Sheriff Not Convinced Jared Loughner Acted Alone...something is extremely fishy here.

Originally posted by alpha chino


While he was describing how he saw JLL and tackled him, he mentioned that after he grabbed Laughner, People were yelling out, "No it's not him, it's another guy!"

In other words, people who were there yelled out that Zamudio had tackled the wrong guy, and the shooter was getting away.

This was straight out of Zamudio's mouth. I'm off to find the Youtube video of it. I forget what show I was watching at the time. It was on FNC. though...

No! you`ve got it wrong,what Zamudio says was he saw people tackling a guy,he saw a guy with a gun a grabbed and wrestled him,thats when he was told that he was wrestling the wrong guy.Heck dude listen to what he said.

If people were already holding down the killer,the guy Zamudio grabbed could be the guy that removed the gun from him or somone who had a gun ready to use against the killer who came into the scene after the fact he had been restrained.

From 3.00 onwards

www.youtube.com...

The interesting part is that for many whether he is found innocent or guilty in a court of law is actually not that crucial ... some want it to be resolved quickly in a convenient way that their mind can process, and some will believe that he's not the guy even if he is found guilty for everything has to be a conspiracy.

The worrying part of all this isn't the above because that is always the case ... the worrying part as I have observed it, is the intellectual, logical, and ethical corner some are reasoning themselves into. Because in their haste to understand this extreme act, so many folks' knee jerk reaction both on ATS and the media at large is to throw around convenient mental labels like 'nut job' 'schizophrenic' 'loony' etc ...

The problem with this is the following ... by calling him 'crazy' because his acts seem crazy, you are absolving him of responsibility, and most who are calling him a 'nut job' now to mentally process his acts will be outraged later should he get off on an insanity defense.

Now I understand that legally insane and calling someone a 'nut job' serve different purposes, but the truth is and as the OP partly points out, neither processes have been seen through their course to make a definitive call. Where the OP's premise seems slightly flawed is that it seems based on the idea that most have prejudged this man ... truth is some have some haven't. Most are doing precisely what ATS is for and simply discussing it, and doing so doesn't mean they have made up their minds either way.

Ultimately so much of this is simply about the mind trying to accommodate that for which it has no box ... people who have these acts in them are incomprehensible to most of us, they might as well be aliens, so in the end we can call them guilty/innocent/crazy/monsters but we really don't know what they are and any label is a desperate approximation to explain the unexplainable. And we'll either put him in a box, or stick a needle in him, wash our hands of it ... until the next time it happens and we are surprised all over again.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
What do I look like, your internet news aggregation monkey?

Kinda.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
I don't know what model he had, but can you show me where it says he did all this in just a few seconds? Also where can one hear this 911 call that states this info?

I only read a transcript, I didn't listen to the recording. I can't remember where I found it but it shouldn't be hard to find if you do a search for 911 transcript giffords.

Originally posted by MisterCrowley
A little girl died and people are worried about that crappy fed judge or wide eyed gifford.. It is just horrible thinking how everyone is trying to gain off this tragedy.

That's another weird thing, if you're firing into a crowd of adults you'd think you'd be firing way too high to nail a little girl. Apparently not, unless the girl was deliberately targeted. It's also not inconceivable this little girl is just a vicsim.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Victims, in the context of a mass shooting, you may question them like "hey, what did you see?" Then once you've gathered all the stories, unless you have reason to, you don't DOUBT their stories. And in this event, if you are DOUBTING victims for no reason, I'm pretty sure it would be you who would be the "terrible investigator".

Which of the victims or witnesses have identified Loughner positively as a shooter?

What the OP is trying to do here is:

1) to remind us that one of the things we are challenged with as members of ATS is to question the information that we are fed by the media and TPTB on a daily basis and that we are failing to do so in the case of the Tucson tragedy, and

2) United States citizens who are charged with crimes while in this country are innocent until proven guilty with the burden on the prosecution to prove that guilt.

So let's everyone slow down for a minute and breathe...

Number 2 above is one of the most important rights we have as Americans. Millions have died over the course of this country's existence to defend what this country stands for, which includes our right, among others, to a fair trial with a jury of our peers. The least we can do to honor the dead is to hold up and support that right, regardless of how much our passions and angers are inflamed.

OJ Simpson is innocent, too.

Well yes this is a free country but......... One he did buy the gun it was a Glock 19 with a 30 round clip and the second person of interest was a cab driver. I know this because the cabbie works near me and i have asked him what happend and when he saw himself on tv he went right to the police. I don't know what drove him to do this but i can tell you that Tucson is a very depressing place to live and everything closes at 10:00 Pm. The police here are just ticket maids. Loughner tried to enlist at the Army office on broadway in 2008 near the Ronald Mcdonald house but only after the Navy didnt want him, I know because my brother in law is a recruiter and rememberd him when the shooting took place and he cant say much to me but he was a wierdo for sure. The cabbie works for yellow cab. Um let me see another interesting point is that i dont doubt something is going on here with all the killings and such on goverment officials kind of reminds me of Night of the long knives when hitler started to eliminate all those brown shirts that opposed him Hmm.................... But one thing that i find is funny that if this guy was latino/american everybody would be screaming for the death penalty or it was the cartels. I know because when it happend and before details came out everybody was blaming the cartels or illegals and when they found out this was a white guy everybody shut up and tried to say that he was troubled and needed help LOL.

Originally posted by ANOMALY502
So multiple eyewitness accounts is not good enough?? (under oath) when the time comes??

NO eye witness testimony does not mean anything, for instance if a crowd of people were to see a UFO land and a Alien walked out and kidnapped someone that is not proof or even evidence. Well at least this is what im told so the same principal or lack there of can be applied with this case or any case.



OP makes a very good point. We are told by the media an apple is an orange and we assume that is true. Refer to the motto just above my avatar.

Originally posted by PlautusSatire
Which of the victims or witnesses have identified Loughner positively as a shooter?

If you don't know that information, then why are you posting in this thread? Go inform yourself. If you need a place to start, try Google. You have heard of search engines, right?

With the releasing of their records, Pima County Sheriff's spokesman Jason Ogan provided a written statement:

"The Pima County Sheriff's Department is making available all reports where the Sheriff's Department had personal contact with Jared Loughner prior to the shooting. The following is a list of these reports:

"09/23/2004 Assault (Victim)
"05/15/2006 Liquor Laws (Juvenile Arrest)
"09/10/2007 Suspicious Vehicle (Cite & Release Arrest)
"10/03/2008 Identity Theft (Victim)

"Please find attached the requested copies of those Pima County Sheriff Department reports involving Loughner and calls responding to his residence.

"To assist you in accurate and timely reporting we have provided PDF files of all reports in lieu of the normal hard copies."

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!

Just because the Public and Media jump the gun and automatically assume this guy is guilty does NOT mean he is!

There is no proof that he did it. Everyone merely says he did. There is no video evidence for me to review, nothing. I have zero evidence therefore I cannot say JLL is guilty of this crime. I was not there, so I cannot possibly know.

Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!

True and I gave you a star for the reminder. However there is a very strong likelihood that he will be found guilty should he go to trial. My last sentence can be taken in different ways.

Arizona shooting caught on tape

I was not there and did not see what happened but I feel pretty safe betting that he will be found guilty beyond any reason of doubt, unless it is insanity or some other excuse but he will be the one found to have done the shooting.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!

Just because the Public and Media jump the gun and automatically assume this guy is guilty does NOT mean he is!

There is no proof that he did it. Everyone merely says he did. There is no video evidence for me to review, nothing. I have zero evidence therefore I cannot say JLL is guilty of this crime. I was not there, so I cannot possibly know.

Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
You have Forgotten what a FAIR TRIAL is!!
Not I.


So PROVE HES GUILTY.

What MANY of the actual people of this country DO NOT understand is there is no longer ANY ideology in "court" of innocence. You are guilty or NOT guilty. Innocence wnet out the window many years ago. There are three types of court and this IS FACT.

There is EQUITY COURT, ADMIRALITY/MARITIME COURT and then there is TALMUDIC COURT. If you have to go to court, NEVER pass through the gates and board the ship. NEVER give your name as that would imply coorprate title. ASK...ask if this is a court of Equity, Admirality/Maritime or Talmudic and watch the response of the prosectutor and judge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Prosecutor is the "Executor of the trust" and the Judge is "Trustee", YOU are the "beneficiary" and as such can NOT be charged or held accountable for the debt created BY the prosecutor. If you NEVER give a name, they can not charge the trust and collect the debt from YOU.

YOUR NAME in all caps is the title to the trust. I know this will not make sense to many here, but this IS the truth. If Jerod knows this, he will walk. No proof and no evidence? I would like to see that for sure.

I wish that all Americans would wake up to the fraud manipulated upon us daily. "Police", where does the word come from.........Policy "E"nforcement........ Polic E, simple as that. Cops are policy enforcement officers and NOT legal LAW enforcement officers. Time to wake up people,,,,the time is getting oh so close.