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Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

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posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Seems to me that everyone misses the OPs point... I'll try and put this in a different perspective...

Let's say that Oswald, without a doubt, shot Kennedy. Didn't Oswald, as an American citizen, DESERVE the right to a trial in court of law, to prove or disprove his innocence?
BUT, Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby before he could ever go to trial.
Therefore, there is still speculation on who killed Kennedy, and why Oswald was even there that day... So on and so forth.

THEREFORE, if Loughner IS guilty, shouldn't it be PROVEN SO in court of law so there's no speculation about these events 50 years later on?




posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Do I believe Jared Lee is innocent until proven guilty? Yes

Do I strongly suspect Jared Lee is responsible in accordance to eye witnesses and other evidence? Yes.

Could Jared Lee Loughner be innocent and this could all be some big ol' conspiracy? Yes. But then again OJ Simpson could be really innocent as well and part of some big conspiracy. So could Timothy McVeigh, so could Oswald.

The truth is, we will never know without a doubt that these people are innocent or guilty. What we have is what's given to us on a daily basis and we can either choose t accept it or not. It's never clear cut and all we have is our own judgements. That being said, the age old idea of "innocent until proven guilty" has stood well for all those people. Timothy McVeigh had his time in court as did OJ simpson as did Oswald, and coming up, Jared Loughner will have his day in court. Until then he is a strong suspect.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by dubiousone

Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


technically ya JLL is innocent in a court of law at the moment. * * * In a court of law he will remain innocent until the 1st witness steps up to the stand. * * *


Your comments show how dangerous a little bit of knowledge can be.

In a court of law you'd be disqualified as a juror for saying that. Jurors are required to suspend judgment until all the evidence is in, from both the prosecution and the defense. Each juror swears under oath and penalty of perjury to do that. So, if you were a juror, are you saying you would violate your oath and solemn duty to suspend judgment until you had heard all the evidence, heard argument from both sides, heard the judge's jury instructions, and been given the case for deliberations?

And the media feeding frenzy continues. It will be a miracle if there's any place in the country where this guy can get a fair trial.
edit on 1/13/2011 by dubiousone because: (no reason given)



holy cow your getting technical on a generalization i made to express this guy is going to be proven guilty because their are eye witnesses.. Thats all you got? You sir are not intelligent. My comment shows a generalization, your attempt of ridicule of my intellectual comments is a travesty to the pursuit of evolution.

In addition I would beg thou mods to remove this personal reply. If I were you, I just made you look really stupid.


Back to the subject, some of you just do not like the truth, the truth revealed itself already, due process is all that remains.. Its not that far fetched.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Yet again, your ignorance knows no bounds.
Multiple eye witnesses, finger prints connecting him to the gun, his DNA on the scene (struggled over gun) there was a video ( not showing of direct face but it matched him perfectly.

There are too many people, not believing anything. Even when there are tons of proof, people like you simply won't believe because every time YOU see is a conspiracy in your head.

This man was mentally unstable, time and time again, I have warned atsers and admins, about the potenional danger of allowing people to talk about anything without correcting them or saying otherwise.

It comes to my attention that sites like above top secret, have no limits in their discussions, and are breeding grounds for insanity, as a final precaution I urge the members of this site to develop a section meant for bounder line insanity, so others may observe this level of insanity, to see how many members are mentally ill, their fears and possible methods of treatment.

Above top secret has become a political target, forums shall be observed to ensure public safety, worse comes to worse, sites like this will become banned. If you wish to avoid that, then I highly suggest someone follows my suggestions.
edit on 13-1-2011 by Anthony1138 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Anthony1138
 


Freedom Of Speech

Deny Ignorance...
edit on 13-1-2011 by ProjectedLogic because: Fix'd link



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Anthony1138
 


I am sorry, but typing words, no matter how crazy they may sound to you, is no reason to censor people. Sometimes I browse the alien section, and think "wow that sounds nuts!", and I have seen a UFO. But I have the common decency not to ridicule others for their thoughts, opinions, or claimed experiences. Unless someone is making an actual threat of course, then that is a different can of worms.
edit on Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:34:09 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Bicent76

Originally posted by dubiousone

Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


technically ya JLL is innocent in a court of law at the moment. * * * In a court of law he will remain innocent until the 1st witness steps up to the stand. * * *


Your comments show how dangerous a little bit of knowledge can be.

In a court of law you'd be disqualified as a juror for saying that. Jurors are required to suspend judgment until all the evidence is in, from both the prosecution and the defense. Each juror swears under oath and penalty of perjury to do that. So, if you were a juror, are you saying you would violate your oath and solemn duty to suspend judgment until you had heard all the evidence, heard argument from both sides, heard the judge's jury instructions, and been given the case for deliberations?

And the media feeding frenzy continues. It will be a miracle if there's any place in the country where this guy can get a fair trial.
edit on 1/13/2011 by dubiousone because: (no reason given)



holy cow your getting technical on a generalization i made to express this guy is going to be proven guilty because their are eye witnesses.. Thats all you got? You sir are not intelligent. My comment shows a generalization, your attempt of ridicule of my intellectual comments is a travesty to the pursuit of evolution.

In addition I would beg thou mods to remove this personal reply. If I were you, I just made you look really stupid.


Back to the subject, some of you just do not like the truth, the truth revealed itself already, due process is all that remains.. Its not that far fetched.


That wasn't "technical". It was reality.

Get over yourself Mr. big ego. This isn't about you or me. You're the one who made the irresponsible comment in your post. Think before you press the "reply" button. This issue is not a joke. Innocent people have been killed and injured and a man's life is on the line.

Clearly, your mind is made up.

You haven't heard the first witness in a court of law and you already have Loughner walking up the steps of the gallow or commited to a mental institution. The "first witness" will only confirm your already firmly cemented conclusion.

Is it more important to tag someone, anyone, as the perpetrator as quickly as possibe than to find out the whole story and make sure all the guilty parties are identified and brought to justice?

Does the media frenzy make it appear that Loughner is the only possible actor in the perpetration of this outrage? Yes, absolutely it does.

Should everyone jump on the media bandwagon and ride this popular wave until its momemntum subsides, if ever? Absolutely not.

If you, the media, law enforcement, and the prosecution close your collective minds now, firmly affix the blinders, and rest comfortably in your tunnel vision only days after the event, the whole truth will never be known.
edit on 1/13/2011 by dubiousone because: Clarify.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Here is his defense. Read the articles from the police who went to his house to describe all the incidents against him. The policeman wrote in his report "his eyes moved rapidly left and right and then moved left upwards. In the report he also mentions rapid trembling movement. Also remember the math professor notes "He insisted on calling the number six "18". I would CAT scan for left temporal lobe abnormality. It could have been from an injury but it will be over his left ear and towards his frontal part of his brain. That is the area where differentiation of speech comes from/administrative functions. His family said in his younger years he was "normal" and we don't see much on him from high school. The disconnect appears to have happened over the last 2 to 3 years. If there is no mental illness/violence in parents...I say a good CAT, MRA/MRI scan is in order -- and then we will see.
Cheers. I would chances are about 90% - -but hey -- they don't pay me the big bucks.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Anthony1138
 



This man was mentally unstable, time and time again, I have warned atsers and admins, about the potenional danger of allowing people to talk about anything without correcting them or saying otherwise.

It comes to my attention that sites like above top secret, have no limits in their discussions, and are breeding grounds for insanity, as a final precaution I urge the members of this site to develop a section meant for bounder line insanity, so others may observe this level of insanity, to see how many members are mentally ill, their fears and possible methods of treatment.


Wow. Who do you think you are? I wouldn't allow the PM of my country to address me like that, and consider him a psycho beyond, nor do I care one bit how many people are in this matrix and have fallen for the lies, and vote these jakyls in who support the bloodlines and slavery of this planet. There are billions starving to death. You want to see how crazy a person can get in this world:


www.youtube.com...

Merecedes Benz grown from a SEED. It takes something like 17 years for the ai type car to be mature enough to handle the road. wonder if when they may admit to growing crafts on the vines yet and if this was reverse engineered tech or given direct to them?



Compare and relate not only these paradigms, but understand what they mean to a deep thinker, the first pic IS disclosure, if you don't get that I would question your ability to think at all. But we need quite a bit more than that to get rid of the bottom one, eh?

And it sure doesnt help what is going on in this world. Even if a court of law finds this man guilty he did not do this alone, I can read the signs.

In the end, we stand free and able to connect the dots of life without any daddy telling how to think, savvy?

I believe someone else said anyone who flagged this thread was supporting him.

I flagged it, and I don't support any abuse of any human being on this planet, past , present or future, and care very much for all those suffering, victims of starvation, war, poverty, inequality, slavery, fascism, theocracies, and any form of violence abuse, murder or rape. I don't even want someone's feelings hurt.

This is man is innocent until proven guilty. Even if a court does find him guilty, I consider him set up or working with others.

I notice the way the world is and I certainly noticed
"Gabby", the innocent girl killed relating to 9/11 and even Jared's last name, "Laughner ie. Loner".

Just way too much not to notice.

Do you want to know whats happening right now, Australia and Brazil have gone into some severe weather and flooding!!!!!

Villages are being washed away in Brazil, or at least I gathered that, just saw it at the doctor's office television.

There are alot of things occurring that we are not supposed to notice.

If a majority think like you do, I feel really sorry for them, that is truly having eyes but not seeing.

P.S.: I think there is a link between this event, this "shooting spree" and the birds and fish dying, and the flooding.
edit on 13-1-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Yes, he is innocent until proven guilty.

However, based on the evidence we have on hand, a guilty verdict is pretty much assured.

Nice to see that when it's a right-wing mass-murdering terrorist, Muzzleflash suddenly discovers faith in due process.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


They kind of took him down as he was fleeing the scene. Sooooo....



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by LongSeptember
Seems to me that everyone misses the OPs point... I'll try and put this in a different perspective...

Let's say that Oswald, without a doubt, shot Kennedy. Didn't Oswald, as an American citizen, DESERVE the right to a trial in court of law, to prove or disprove his innocence?
BUT, Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby before he could ever go to trial.
Therefore, there is still speculation on who killed Kennedy, and why Oswald was even there that day... So on and so forth.

THEREFORE, if Loughner IS guilty, shouldn't it be PROVEN SO in court of law so there's no speculation about these events 50 years later on?


I understand what you are trying to do but in this case your example is irrelevant. In the case of Oswald no one saw him as the actual shooter as he was hidden out of the public eye. In this case many people saw him as the shooter. The only reason this is going to trial is to dispute whether or not he is insane or not and whether or not they will pursue the death penalty.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


As far as this guy being innocent until proven guilty, this term is just an idealistic perception created by the lawmakers to make accused people feel like they will get a fair deal in the judiciary arena. And although it is written down as law, it is understood among law enforcement, lawyers, judges, politicians, and the majority of citizens that when someone who took an oath to perform their fiduciary duty(such as a cop) accuses you who are simply another John Q Public citizen, they are right and you are guilty of whatever you have been accused of.

Nevermind the fact that this oath that was taken has about as little MORAL value as a dollar bill. Because people believe that the dollar will get you further than a moral conviction.

Let's get back to the subject of the man himself JLL. If this guy wasn't recruited by the CIA to be trained and brainwashed for the purpose of a fall guy, then he can be nothing more than a true product of the society for which we live. If you have read or seen any of the material still available from JLL, then you already know that he was either brainwashed or just a simple fool. No matter how righteous his purpose may have been, he lacked the shear intellect to convey his beliefs to other people in a positive way. But, what I want to know is if you can actually blame him for being uneducated(when America ranks among the lowest when compared to world powers), being hungry for answers that christianity could not answer(look at his fascination with the 2012 apocalypse), being an undiagnosed delusional schizophrenic(this man clearly indulged himself in this delusion just based on his online statements), or because he resorted to violence(which is not only instinctual but directed by the examples of WAR and violence that we interact with daily).

I don't condone what this man did, but until we get at the true fabric of how something like this happens, it will happen again. Instead of the President taking the time to address the nation with concerns for disturbed individuals such as JLL, the national address is focused mainly on religion. I counted 18 references to god, church, prayer, mass, even the book of Job(which is the most notable urban legend in the bible).

So, if I'm anyone who has the power to control media perception and can gain position by using religion, then what better person to seek out than JLL: atheist, perhaps communists, with social disorders and skepticism for a governmental institution. Which, I might add, turned him away by refusing to allow him to sacrifice his life for America by joining the military. A young man that needed the structure and discipline that Uncle Sam could have provided, but wanted only to redeem himself in the eyes of his country by committing to armed service.

Could this tragedy have been avoided..... YES
edit on 13-1-2011 by SocratesPupil because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I'll tell that 9 year old girls family that you're just going to make jokes when they're daughter was violently shot and killed. I mean there were something called "witnesses" I know that may be something hard for you to grasp, I mean living under a bridge really doesn't have the best education system... so just this once I'll let you get away with this moronic/idiotic post!



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by TheFlash

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!

Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
You have Forgotten what a FAIR TRIAL is!!
Not I.


I can't help but wonder if what you say is true or if you are just taking this specific event to advance your own agenda. A good way to find out is this - muzzleflash - who was responsible for the 9/11/2001 attacks on NY and the Pentagon? Where is the "Hard Evidence" to support your answer?


Ummmm...I don't know?
I wasn't there?
I have no data to make such a judgement accurately...


Are you kidding me? So are you saying that no one can ever be found guilty except by people who witness the event first hand? Are you aware that witness statements are one of the least accepted forms of evidence in court? "No data"? FYI there is a plethora of factual information regarding the 9/11 attacks available on the Internet and other sources, and I'm sure that more and more will emerge about this recent crime also.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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Wow, I knew I was saving my first post for something. This really is the bottom. Yes, technically he is "innocent until proven guilty" but that's where it ends. The dude is gonna fry and rightfully so. You can't go on a shooting spree in the middle of that many people, killing and wounding several and not expect the book to be thrown at you. Besides, it looks like he was going to take the wussy out but got stopped before he could kill himself. So the title of the thread is technically correct, it is written to create BS emotions.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 
Im new to ats, i just got an account a few days ago, ive been reading posts for months but just now got around to actually creating my own. Im just wondering if anyone has anymore info on loughner's connections with the military, i saw a video i will try to figure out how to post a link
sorry if i did it wrong, but in it jared states "Jared Loughner is a United States Military Recruit at MEPS in Phoenix" if this info is true, i smell a manchurian candidate, just would like to know everyone's thoughts.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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I haven't seen proof yet.

ALL I see is pixels on a computer screen, which are not evidence of anything.

I wish some would realize that pixels on a computer screen IS NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING.

I am being called a "wacky conspiracy theorist" for this, but in REALITY,
I am the SKEPTIC here


edit on 13-1-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-1-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by SocratesPupil
 


Are you implying that he should have been allowed into the military? ... And I thought JL was delusional...

He failed a drug test.. American soldiers are already blasted by world opinion.. Last thing we need is guys like this lunatic running around with guns..

Yes, it could have been avoided.. He could have had a forced mental evaluation, after his "creepy" social skills....

IMO - This is something that we are not going to be able to stop.. To single out and take care of these lunatics, we would have our rights infringed upon..

Short trial + lethal injection = a small deterrent to the next mental midget.



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