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Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

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posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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But its OK to find the conservatives, and particularly Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh guilty? HYPOCRITES!




posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Resurrectio
I have only seen her one statement saying that someone said grab the clip, and she grabbed at it.


How many times do you need to see it to believe it? She grabbed a clip on the ground, the man subduing Loughner produced it and threw it near her.

You're citing stories she told the media about her involvement. Her initial story was that she was first told to grab the gun on the ground, when she didn't, the man holding Loughner down stuck his hand in Loughner's pocket then threw a magazine on the ground and she was again told to grab it, which she did. Loughner was already immobilized and disarmed. Her other more recent stories, that she saw him running while firing, are contradicted by the 911 call.

www.nationalpost.com...


"In that split second I had to make a decision whether to run or to lay down on the ground. I decided I would be a target if I ran because the gunman was now just steps from me and I lay down."


This woman was on the ground, she's reported elsewhere she wasn't at all concerned with finding out where the shots were coming from, that she was thinking about how hit would feel to be shot while watching other people get shot. The article also mentions other strange things:


"I turned and dropped to the ground, and I felt a sting in the back of the head, and that's where he shot me, in the back of the head. I knew I'd been hit," he said.


This is from Colonel Bill Badger. Bill Badger? Seriously? He was shot in the back of the head, he says, by Loughner. He says he was waiting in line to see Giffords. How did Loughner shoot him in the back of the head if he shot Giffords before then? Was Bill Badger running away or is this story just getting more and more peculiar? He says somebody hit Loughner with a chair. The 911 call transcript conflicts with all of this.

And then we have this:


The final reinforcement came from Joseph Zamudio, 24, who ran from a nearby store.

The former football player, all 90 kilograms of him, arrived as the others threw themselves on Mr. Loughner and helped restrain him.

"I rounded the corner and ran right into them," he said.


Was this CONCEALED WEAPON CARRYING FOOTBALL PLAYER WEARING A BLACK HOODIE the one who'd done all the shooting?

www.examiner.com...


Caller: "It's Giffords!"

911: "Hello?"

Caller: "There was a shooting at Safeway."

911: "Okay what do you mean?"

Caller: "I-9 Oracle. Where Gabrielle Giffords was. And I do believe Gabby Giffords was hit."


Why is only Giffords mentioned when there were 10 other victims?


Caller: "Yes. It looked like the guy had a semiautomatic pistol. He went in and started firing and then he ran."

911: "OK. Which way did run?"

Caller: "He ran North past [inaudible]. Right next to the Safeway.:

911: "Can you describe him?"

Caller: "He was wearing a hoodie."

911: "What color was the hoodie?"

Caller: "Black."



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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3rd Mod Note

The numbers of those Post Banned are racking up. Stay on topic and post in a civil manner.

(posted here because it's a fresh page)



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by TheFlash

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!

Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
You have Forgotten what a FAIR TRIAL is!!
Not I.


I can't help but wonder if what you say is true or if you are just taking this specific event to advance your own agenda. A good way to find out is this - muzzleflash - who was responsible for the 9/11/2001 attacks on NY and the Pentagon? Where is the "Hard Evidence" to support your answer?


Ummmm...I don't know?
I wasn't there?
I have no data to make such a judgement accurately...



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Frankly this is the sort of thing that gives ATS a huge black eye and makes everyone here look like fools and imbeciles and by everyone here, I mean me also.

People who agree with this wild idea that Loughner was set up when in fact he committed this atrocity in full view of a large number of people, will be seen as being in support of him and perhaps sympathetic with him. Even happy he did it. Otherwise why would they try and cover up for him?

Me, I think it is an exercise in silliness by people with nothing better to do, or angry people who can't control their compulsion to be contrary even when it borders on the absurd.

The number of flags on this thread could be seen as the number of people on ATS who support Loughners actions. If I were here searching for potentially dangerous people here, this is the exact sort of thread I'd post. You might want to watch what you say.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by TorqueyThePig
I am a Police Officer (thanks for the insults by the way) and take mugshots on a daily basis. That would absolutely pass for a mugshot in any department. Not all departments have high res DSLR cameras. They do mention that the photo is a mugshot taken by the Police on every site that I visited. However I could be wrong.


No police department anywhere sets up the lighting in the booking room to cast sinister "crazy" shadows over one eye. If you really are a police officer then you should know what I'm saying is true. In all cases they seek to fully illuminate the face. Show me one other mug show that shows this kind of "crazy shadow" over one eye. I first saw this photo listed in the earliest source I could find on this subject, it was cited as "unsourced".



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


technically ya JLL is innocent in a court of law at the moment. Yet the people at this rally or whatever you want to call it spotted this guy shooting people and killing some. They tackled him down and took the gun from him. In a court of law he will remain innocent until the 1st witness steps up to the stand. Why so many pages about it I dunno, the OP should know the way the judicial process works as well. Its not rocket science JLL shot and injured and killed people.
If you do not believe that, I might say you have a screw loose.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Come on muzzleflash. You know the truth. Here's the proof. 6 people are dead and no one else was tackled for posing a threat against the public.

The guy is guilty. He has tried to maintain his innocence?

Just because there's no video evidence doesn't mean anything. If video evidence had to be introduced to every murder trial, there would never be any convictions. This Jared guy went on a shooting spree with all kinds of people standing about. It's like he wanted to be known for this tragedy that he caused.

I'm sorry. I'm not going to even debate this. Jared Loughner is guilty. There is no innocence about him.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


I am sorry that people react so harshly.

I think I have been referred to as the "next JLL" at least 3 times and I'm only on like page 13.

They called me shameful, they called me "what makes ATS look bad", etc.

1) I find it more shameful to butt into a murder case and trumpet "dude X is guilty" all over the media WITHOUT any due process. Convicted by media before the trial. Thus it's impossible to get a decent jury.

2) ATS makes itself look bad, or good, and it's all subjective. I think ATS looks good all the time, but thats because I choose to view it that way. If you think ATS looks bad, than you probably just have negative aspects residing in your mind that are projected onto things you perceive in reality.

Oh and 3) Title choice.
If you go to college and learn Journalism, what is the FIRST thing they teach??
"Headline is everything, a poor headline will fail instantly"
Everyone knows as a fact that making a uber sensational headline is the ONLY WAY YOU GET PPL TO READ YOUR STORY. *Look at EVERY media outlet, look at ATS*
I have tried for YEARS to make a decent thread about decent conspiracies with plenty of evidence to support it. How many of you went to those threads? No One mostly? OK.

So I blame ATS Ignoring my 100 non-sensational thread titles as guilty for forcing me to make a Good Catchy thread title to get peoples attention so they might LEARN SOMETHING.

I didn't write this for flags and stars, those are pointless. I wrote this thread because I knew I would change the world and alter the face of the JLL discussion permanently.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
Frankly this is the sort of thing that gives ATS a huge black eye and makes everyone here look like fools and imbeciles and by everyone here, I mean me also.


Right, the million aliens abducted me, i saw the devil, and planet x is gonna get ya threads made us look good right? And only just now, all of the sudden, mean ol muzz is making ATS look bad?

You folks need to stop projecting 1 single opinion on a website of millions of posters.
EACH INDIVIDUAL REFLECTS ONLY ON THEMSELVES.

If you blame a group for the actions of 1 person, you are blind and ignorant. Bottom line.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!

Just because the Public and Media jump the gun and automatically assume this guy is guilty does NOT mean he is!

Right, but ... definitely, in a well governed state the judges and/or the jury will decide whether he is guilty or not. And of course, until then, it's innocent until proven beyond reasonable doubt to be guilty.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Until Proven Guilty!
There is no proof that he did it. Everyone merely says he did. There is no video evidence for me to review, nothing. I have zero evidence therefore I cannot say JLL is guilty of this crime. I was not there, so I cannot possibly know.

We -there is no we- are neither judges nor jury members to judge him. And in principal, I agree (see above).

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
You have Forgotten what a FAIR TRIAL is!!
Not I.

If I were on His Jury, I will write down NOT GUILTY unless HARD EVIDENCE can be supplied that proves he is guilty. DNA evidence, fingerprints, or a non-coerced admission of guilt would all be sufficient evidence of guilt. I would then change my vote to GUILTY.
Most of you have FORGOT what AMERICA is really about!
Innocent Until Proven Guilty!
So PROVE HES GUILTY.

Stop making baseless accusations without proof against a human being for capital crimes. (Just because it's in fashion doesn't make it right).

I am neither judge nor jury member nor his attorney and no cop to investigate and make my case. My gut feeling, he did it. He snapped and he did the deed.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
This is NOT TROLLING.
I am presenting the LEGAL TRUTH to you folks.
But you are probably so engulfed in the tragedy the media has embedded into your heads to remember what our nation was founded on! Innocent before proven Guilty!

Don't let the Psychological Warfare from the Mainstream Media mesmerize you with emotions and hate. Be calm and think critically, please.

So far, according to what the ever treacherous mass media is reporting, he did the deed no doubt. It seems that there were witnesses who will testify to that and it will be the end of it. They have the gun, they have a suspect and I think they have a slam dunk case. The only way, he could be innocent, is if we assume that he was brainwashed by the evil cabal to do the deed - Manchurian candidate style. I have my doubts; I think he was genuinely mentally unstable, he snapped and he murdered quite some people, including a 9 year old girl.
edit on 13/1/2011 by WalterRatlos because: fix quotes



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by PlautusSatire
 


Here ya go- I am going to get a few, to show the lack of quality that they expect in a mug shot.

My name is.................




Notice the hair over the eye? Even I would assume they would want a better picture.. But they let it ride.





Notice the shadow over 1 eye? Seems LAPD allowed it..eh?





that should do it..

Now what other problems do you have with the mug shot.. I'll address those also.


Still waiting on your proof of an alternative story. I'll assume you can't find one.. Checkmate!



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by PlautusSatire
 


I would be willing to bet that some minor adjustments were made by the press. They do it to almost every picture before it is published. One thing they usually play with is the eyes. If you want a picture to be seen in a positive note, you make sure to make the eyes stand out a bit, and the pupils large. If you are going for a negative response, unsaturate the eyes, and make small pupils. There is always a lot of minor and subtle changes done to photographs before they are printed.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


First of all MF (MuzzleFlash) you ARE trolling, which is why you felt it necessary to say your not. The title of your thread was to imply innocent of the crime itself. The bottom line is a man identified as Jared L. Loughner was apprehended during the commission of a violent crime. This guy was not picked out of a line up by some blind homeless dude, he was beaten down and restrained until arrested. Your next thread can be "was JLL's civil rights violated by those who restrained him without proper training"



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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You could pretty much apply the "if I didn't see it it didn't happen" logic to anything. I didn't see WW2 so it must not have happened. I mean sure there are videos but those could have been faked cause I didn't see it.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by PlautusSatire
 


Well it is your opinion that the shadow that is cast over his eye is "sinister." That can hardly be used as evidence to suggest that it is not an actual booking photograph. Check out these booking photos.
www.floridatoday.com...

And last but not least. The best for last of course.
www.guidespot.com...

I guess they are fake because the suspects are not posing correctly. Surely the police department would have taken the photos again to get a perfectly centered pose that wasn't showing any kind of emotion. Or is it only a fake photo if the lighting is off? Oh if you could also show me the S.O.P or D.G.O. of any police department that says a photograph must be taken again because a shadow is cast over the face? But hey what would I know....
edit on 13-1-2011 by TorqueyThePig because: Grammar



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Frankly this is the sort of thing that gives ATS a huge black eye and makes everyone here look like fools and imbeciles and by everyone here, I mean me also.


Right, the million aliens abducted me, i saw the devil, and planet x is gonna get ya threads made us look good right? And only just now, all of the sudden, mean ol muzz is making ATS look bad?

You folks need to stop projecting 1 single opinion on a website of millions of posters.
EACH INDIVIDUAL REFLECTS ONLY ON THEMSELVES.

If you blame a group for the actions of 1 person, you are blind and ignorant. Bottom line.
Wow that's mature. Yell at him and call him names instead of actually arguing your point. The OP is nothing but a troll in disguise. It's sad that the ATS are ok with trolls running rampant on this site lately.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflashI didn't write this for flags and stars, those are pointless. I wrote this thread because I knew I would change the world and alter the face of the JLL discussion permanently.


Change the world??? Wow... I think you need some help.



posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


technically ya JLL is innocent in a court of law at the moment. * * * In a court of law he will remain innocent until the 1st witness steps up to the stand. * * *


Your comments show how dangerous a little bit of knowledge can be.

In a court of law you'd be disqualified as a juror for saying that. Jurors are required to suspend judgment until all the evidence is in, from both the prosecution and the defense. Each juror swears under oath and penalty of perjury to do that. So, if you were a juror, are you saying you would violate your oath and solemn duty to suspend judgment until you had heard all the evidence, heard argument from both sides, heard the judge's jury instructions, and been given the case for deliberations?

And the media feeding frenzy continues.

It will be a miracle if there's any place in the country where this guy can get a fair trial.

We need a trial so that the infuences which led him to do whatever he did that day, if anything, are exposed and, if appropriate, brought to justice themselves. As others have noted, this hopefully will not end the same way as the case of Lee Harvey Oswald.
edit on 1/13/2011 by dubiousone because: Spelling and clarification.



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