Man Who Tackled Loughner Interviewed - Guess What?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Sorry.....did you watch the same interview I did? Perhaps it would be useful to obtain a written transcript, for more dispassionate analysis??

Admit, only the first watch....but your title here: "Man Who Tackled Loughner...." seems a bit of an exaggeration. As I recall, he said that when he exited the Walgreens's he saw the "alleged" perp already down, having been tackled by at least two others previously.

I was a bit puzzled by Mr. Zaprudio's mention of seeing a hand/arm with a gun in it, and others yelling "no"? In any case, he disarmed the person holding that gun? (Why didn't the other two??)

Finally....his comments RE: if he had been outside the Walgreen's sooner, and "witness" to the shooter....he said something about "...seeing someone with a gun, I'm taking him out..." or words to that effect (why we need a transcript).

Do you not see how somewhat irresponsible that is? Because, what if the person he sees with a gun is ANOTHER "good Samaritan" citizen just like him, ALSO with a CCW??

And....he shoots the wrong person? After all, it IS Arizona....and a LOT of CCWs are walking about, yes??

QFT, on both counts.
One report of the incident said a woman first knocked the magazine out of Loughner's hand when he was reloading, and then two men tackled him together.

Another report told of a veteran there who was carrying, and who, instead of using his pistol, let it drop to the floor while he was ducking for cover.

If many people respond with guns, there is confusion about which is the original shooter, and the good guys are likely to shoot each other by mistake, or miss and shoot innocent bystanders.
The best answer is courage and a cool head.

Originally posted by 19rn50
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

You do what ever you need to stop the threat. You really think someone drugged
up with a vest is going to say ouch with a 9mm. Vietnamese drugged up with inter tubes
wrapped around chest is hard to stop with a M16 in full auto.

Not to be a total jerk, but the fact that you say 'clip' tells me that you have not been trained as you say you have. Also, Ive never heard of any instructor that teaches anything other than a double-tap-and-assess philosophy in an urban setting.

Also...yes drugs can get people amped up, but they dont change physics. Two 9mm's to a vest would be like taking two swings of a baseball bat to the chest in rapid succession. Its a rare individual who would shrug that off.

Originally posted by pearcester
is it just me or did he say he ran out the building to grab the gun off the wrong person then jump on the person that other people had already got on to the floor??

If i did hear it right he did nothing?

correct me if im wrong tho

Good catch.

JZ: Well, as I came out of the door of the Walgreen, sir, I saw several individuals wrestling with him, and ahh -- I came running, I was already at a full sprint -- and ahh, you know, there's no time to think about anything; I saw another individual holding the firearm and I kind of assumed he was the shooter, so I grabbed his wrist and ahh you know, told him to drop it and forced him to drop the gun on the ground. When he did that, everybody says, "No, no -- it's this guy, it's this guy," . . .

JZ: Sir, when I came through the door, I had my hand on the butt of my pistol and I'd clicked the safety off. I was ready to kill him. . . .

ES: Joe --
JZ: -- I would've shot the man holding the gun.

That's edited from the interview, but it makes it obvious that, much as RamboJZ only wanted to shoot the assassin, it's only luck and other spectators that stopped him from shooting another Rambo.

reply to post by MikeNice81


there's a difference in the type of crime associated with guns that seems to make the arguement of gun control an unfair one.

there are crimes where guns are involved that are related to gang violence, drug trade etc and then there are the crimes committed by non-gang related, non-drug related individuals.

the criminal element of gangs and the drug trade will always have guns. not gun control will ever stop that kind of violence.

the one off guys, the Loughners of the world, would probably have a much harder time obtaining a gun if more controls were in place and, perhaps, a murder or two, of this nature, would be stopped.

let me state, one more time, I am not saying I am for, or against, these types of controls, just pointing out the reasoning.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by 19rn50
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

You do what ever you need to stop the threat. You really think someone drugged
up with a vest is going to say ouch with a 9mm. Vietnamese drugged up with inter tubes
wrapped around chest is hard to stop with a M16 in full auto.

Not to be a total jerk, but the fact that you say 'clip' tells me that you have not been trained as you say you have. Also, Ive never heard of any instructor that teaches anything other than a double-tap-and-assess philosophy in an urban setting.

Also...yes drugs can get people amped up, but they dont change physics. Two 9mm's to a vest would be like taking two swings of a baseball bat to the chest in rapid succession. Its a rare individual who would shrug that off.

edit on 13-1-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Drugs do change physics have you never heard of the drug that the taliban use its a narcotic mix with gunpowder it keeps them from going after they have been hit I first heard of this on a program called andy mcnabbs tour of duty a american soilder gives a extraordinary account of trying to fight some one on this cocktail

www.youtube.com... watch from 6.30

Originally posted by JDofENGLAND

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by 19rn50
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

You do what ever you need to stop the threat. You really think someone drugged
up with a vest is going to say ouch with a 9mm. Vietnamese drugged up with inter tubes
wrapped around chest is hard to stop with a M16 in full auto.

Not to be a total jerk, but the fact that you say 'clip' tells me that you have not been trained as you say you have. Also, Ive never heard of any instructor that teaches anything other than a double-tap-and-assess philosophy in an urban setting.

Also...yes drugs can get people amped up, but they dont change physics. Two 9mm's to a vest would be like taking two swings of a baseball bat to the chest in rapid succession. Its a rare individual who would shrug that off.

edit on 13-1-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Dugs do change physics have you never heard of the drug that the taliban use its a narcotic mix with gunpowder it eeps them going after they have been hit i first heard of this on a program called andy mcnabbs tour of duty a american soilder gives a extraordinary account of trying to fight some one one this cocktail

No, they do not. The laws of physics are what they are.

When kinetic force meets a static object movement musts occur. Simple physics. A 9mm round has a LOT of kinetic force. Two in succession has an even greater impact. A person would have to have a GREAT amount of mass to absorb the force.

Yes there are drugs that will make a person able to tolerate, or numb to pain. There's a difference between that and physics. The force behind two 9mm bullets hitting someone in a vest would put most people down, at least temporarily.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Watch the video it goes on to another part and tell me that its normal they can take bullets when there on this drug so that sort of throws you view out of the window

reply to post by Crakeur


Your reasoning assumes that laws actually work at PREVENTING crime from occurring.

Of course, no law has ever prevented any real crime from occurring.

ever.

Real crime involves physical actors in a real world doing physical things to each other.

Laws are pieces of paper in a law library.

They can delineate what actions are inappropriate in society, what penalties should be, and the structure of government, but they sure as hell aren't going to prevent anyone from doing anything on their own.

The reality of the situation here is that Loughner's parents did not take action to help their obviously psychotic son. Considering that he was living with them at the time this occurred, I don't see how they could have missed the warning signs of paranoid schizophrenia.

reply to post by JDofENGLAND


Any way i think laws of physics are boundaries created for us by the elite. We do not know the real boundaries of physics only that what where taught

Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Watch the video it goes on to another part and tell me that its normal they can take bullets when there on this drug so that sort of throws you view out of the window

You really need to learn more about physics and about this subject before you speak on it based on one video.

When a person is shot without a vest the kinetic energy is not passed on the same as it is when the round is stopped dead at a high velocity.

See, a round of 9mm para will more often than not penetrate, and continue to travel completely through the target, meaning there is not an exchange of energy like there is when the bullet hits something hard enough to stop it (i.e. a vest). Therefore, drugs would have the effect of keeping them going, as it would be mostly pain that the person was dealing with.

When a bullet, or any moving object, meets enough resistance to stop it, the energy that was moving the object must go somewhere. In the case of a vest, it goes directly into the body. Vests are rated on their ability to absorb some of the shock, but it is not uncommon for people to die from internal bleeding after being shot wearing a vest.

Seriously....drugs can change the laws of physics

Originally posted by JDofENGLAND

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by 19rn50
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

You do what ever you need to stop the threat. You really think someone drugged
up with a vest is going to say ouch with a 9mm. Vietnamese drugged up with inter tubes
wrapped around chest is hard to stop with a M16 in full auto.

Not to be a total jerk, but the fact that you say 'clip' tells me that you have not been trained as you say you have. Also, Ive never heard of any instructor that teaches anything other than a double-tap-and-assess philosophy in an urban setting.

Also...yes drugs can get people amped up, but they dont change physics. Two 9mm's to a vest would be like taking two swings of a baseball bat to the chest in rapid succession. Its a rare individual who would shrug that off.

edit on 13-1-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Dugs do change physics have you never heard of the drug that the taliban use its a narcotic mix with gunpowder it eeps them going after they have been hit i first heard of this on a program called andy mcnabbs tour of duty a american soilder gives a extraordinary account of trying to fight some one one this cocktail

I have to pull you up on that comment from that fiction writer Any McNab. The claim that the Taliban are hocked up on drugs was also made about the Iraqi resistance in Fallujah. A tv documentary team went into Fallujah after the Americans finished off the male population and found syringes, empty drug vials like morphine and bandages and the narator said that the Iraqi fighters were taking drugs to face the Americans. I swear as the day is long that an American soldier stepped upto the camera and said the Iraqis were taking things like morphine, adrenaline and various psychotropic drugs to withstand American fire power.

The reporter was too dull to point out that these drugs may have been used to treat the wounded. You see when you say the opposition is off their heads on drugs, it explains why you have taken no prisoners.

Modern bullets do not have gunpowder/blackpowder in them; they usually contain nitrocellulose and this chemical cannot be absorbed into the body on a chemical level. This claim of enemies snorting blackpowder with narcotics is a Hollywood metaphor to express the nihilistic nature of those being killed by the "good guys".

It was the Taliban that ended the heroin trade in Afghanistan and was restarted by the CI A.

CI A Plane Crashes in Yucatan Carrying 3.2 Tons of Cocaine

WMR has learned from knowledgeable European sources that a Gulfstream II that crash landed 1.3 miles from Tikokob in Yucatan, Mexico after being chased by Mexican military helicopters for flying illegally into Mexican airspace was one of the planes chartered to the CI A for the renditioning of kidnapped prisoners. The crash landing took place on September 24. The tail number of the Gulfstream is N987SA.

Mexican soldiers found no bodies at the crash site but did discover 132 bags containing 3.3 metric tons of coc aine. The origination of the Gulfstream's flight is unknown but it was destined for Cancun when it crash landed. Police later said they had arrested one passenger who was on board the plane.

The operator of the Gulfstream is Donna Blue Aircraft, Inc. of Coconut Creek, Florida. Its address, according to the Florida Division of Corporations, is 4811 Lyons Technology, Coconut Creek, Florida 33073.

djd.newsvine.com... aine

This same aircraft flew around Afghanistan transporting all kinds of stuff and transporting kidnapped people to blacksites.

So in the end, snorting nitrocellulose would be a bad idea and the drug smugglers are special forces types and the CI A.

Reply to post by JDofENGLAND

Any way i think laws of physics are boundaries created for us by the elite. We do not know the real bounds of physics only that what where taught

Spoken like a kid who's about to prove he can fly by jumping off his parents roof.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by JDofENGLAND

 

Any way i think laws of physics are boundaries created for us by the elite. We do not know the real bounds of physics only that what where taught

Thats it! Angelina Jolie was standing behind Jared and made the bullets go around him to appear as if they came from him. Damn elites and their lies about physics!!! Grrrrrrr!

Originally posted by JDofENGLAND
reply to post by JDofENGLAND

 

Any way i think laws of physics are boundaries created for us by the elite. We do not know the real bounds of physics only that what where taught

You are correct, there are many things in physics that are unknown. The basic laws, however, are pretty darn concrete.

This isn't fiction by andy mcnab its a documentary of soilders who have won awards for bravery on the battle field. It gives them a adrenaline rush and its real'y hard to bring them down from that rush P.S if u watch the entire series of andy mcna's tour of duty there is a better account of fighting some one on this cocktail but i cant find it at the moment the guy ran out of ammo shooting one of them and still had to draw for his knife

reply to post by MikeNice81


yeah your most likely right, the markets already too much in flood to do any good anyway. not all countries with stricter laws have higher rates concerning firearms death or crime. maybe only those with large percents of gang types or those who continually need to break such laws.

just still wonder though who exactly does a gun protect when there are large gangs in numbers, drug lords and multitudes of highly capable criminals fully armed against the average law abiding joe on the steets. do you really stand any chance to defend and protect against these types of thugs or against their numbers even with choice of weapon.

reply to post by mnemeth1
Thank god for Joe the man deserves a medal,but the message that was given via the newscaster concerns me,especially when using the gun control issue,mental illness and veterans all in one sentence and let me tell you why.Is this the route the ptb are going taking to take our guns?are they going to use mental illness as the way of removing our guns from us?In my mind it sounded like he was linking mental illness with being a veteran,do they necessairly go together?and what does having mental illness mean does it mean everyone that is on any kind of anti-depressant?because if that is the case then we are in trouble,how many vets and other people are on this drug for post trumatic stress and other mild stresses.And not just the vets most of the nation is on some sort of meds for stress just to keep up our day to day lives.I believe tptb are coming in the back-door on the gun control issue ,is there anyone back there watching?

reply to post by mnemeth1


Well, if it wouldn't be so easy for nutjobs to get guns, he wouldn't have had to use his bare hands to take him down...stupid argument of yours imo.

Do you think it's possible that this entire scenario was set up to clamp down on gun rights?

Just a shot in the dark, but curious as to what the rest of you think..

Originally posted by Above_Beyond
Do you think it's possible that this entire scenario was set up to clamp down on gun rights?

Just a shot in the dark, but curious as to what the rest of you think..

The gun grabbers in congress have legislation to ban guns printed up ready to fly at a moments notice.

Anytime some major shooting catastrophe occurs, they yank it off the shelf and try to ram it through.

Politicians are creatures of opportunity.

However in this case, it really does look like this guy was simply a paranoid schizo.