Before I get Banned for opening my mouth...

reply to post by PublikOUTLAW


I read your post before it was removed...

Due to the nature of the topic the mods did decide it crossed the line... Perhaps a rewording sent to the mod who t an c'd it can tell you if it cross a line..

I am not suggesting censorship merely common sense in the this environment before the situation cools...

I to recently suffered this and completely disagreed, but I took it as a warning to edit and reword so that...

I cant make my thoughts on it pretty.. Thank you for sharing. I do want you participate so see if you can reword it so for now it does not offend...

Temperament as with tempers have flared.... This site is having to do a dance and this I do understand

reply to post by whatukno

There is always a better solution than violence.

I disagree..
Yes there are other "options" but if they all fail then you are left with violence or nothing..

reply to post by whatukno


Then it boils down to nature versus nurture. I don't think society as a whole is doing much nurturing hence all the violence. We have devolved into the behavior of the ID, our basic natural instincts. All the instant gratification of cell phones, e-mail, movies on demand, ect. has really brought us down.

Definitely another Erad - I'm concerned. Let me be the first to say it. Don't do it man, It's not worth it...

But seriously we essentially have this parent (Big Government) saying do as I say, not as I do. That's a big part of the problem right there, and I believe a lot of people tend to follow the lead of those who lead, but of course that is not acceptable for the populace, just the rulers. Evil begets evil.

Somehow we've got this notion or sense of duty to poke our noses into everybody else's business. Don't get involved in foreign entanglements hmmmm... Or perhaps its our only chip in the big game, just whose bidding are we doing anyways?

Point is, you reap what you sew. We go around like some big bad brooding entity and wonder why it's own populace employs the same techniques.

Yep, clear as mud...

reply to post by Condemned0625




As I stated earlier, its a dance now. the post was short and to the point...

I agree with the emotions and the self control you use in the situation with religion and violence.

I have had to deal with the violence of other religions...I have resorted to magics in response to the dirtier plays.

Some days you have to accept that you are dealing with emotional children...

The point I wanted to add was that their is a point where it is no mas... I refereed to history...

To this I will add Plymouth Rock. My understanding was that they came to escape the religious violence. One of my progenitors was traced to the boat by the family historian (both sides ) But I have not verified my self and am waiting for the research...



(scotts/irish)

May I inquire your religions and what tenants you use that involve the subject matter...

reply to post by getreadyalready


I appreciate your candor...

I am not calling for violence ...

An interesting twist...

The individual versus the group....

I know the individuals make up the group. A similar question has been asked by various sci fi authors...

How would peaceful force the violent to peace... A great argument for here....

You also sound some of the great leaders I have read about.. Willing to protect themselves but not to the extent of dominating or forcing there will onto others...

(of note recnt scifi characters also carry same trait) Yall should click on this posters name

click it...lol

it is a theme in his threads and post... a good example of a happy medium, imho

reply to post by BAMstomper


I am not going to disagree, you know where I sleep...



Too many time in my personal experience is this true as with most of history.....

The Use of Force Continium, just fyi:

1 .Physical Presence
2 .Verbal Directives/De-Escalation
3. Physical Restraint
4. Less than Lethal Interventions
5. Lethal Force

# 2 can be the most useful with the proper temperament and training, have prevented a great deal of violence with # 2.

reply to post by watchitburn


Bully's are an excellent example of what happens in life versus the theory of how things are supposed to be...

I am curious about if you ever later on decided to see if you could find out any more information...

Little things for future use to aid in prevention.. It is part of this discussion and I did not go into...

But if you like post your thoughts on bully's ... I know eventually they will get tied into this conversation anyway...

our governments, our law enforcement, they all use violence to get their point across. then why the hell shouldn't the people that give them these powers use the same tactics of persuasion?...are they better than us? do they know whats best for us? who the hell do they think they are?

we have just as much right as any other. threats and violence definitely has its place in humanity and without it we would all be mindless victim sheeple

reply to post by Electric Crown


funny....

HA! HA!

But I guess , by opening this thread i invited this...

well my come back is




I have found with training and education, keeping your options open is the easiest way to win....


My only fear is a nightmare of not being ready to deal with those who do use violence for no reason. I feel it is a valid fear. I will protect myself best I can but thats it.. I intend to keep living my life and enjoying it...

Living well is the BEST revenge..

and again

reply to post by authortobe


right out of the "Use of Force" playbook. I concur the proper use of verbal commands can be the most effective tool in de-escalating a potentially violent situation.

To Add:
Opportunity (Physical presence)
Intent (party means to do harm)
Capability (weapon or means to do bodily harm is present)

before employing deadly force. Intent is left to the discernment of the officer.

reply to post by CitizenAlpha


Those contradictions are part of what got us to this conversation today...

I agree your preachin to choir...

When the parents do not abide by the same rules they set issues come about, VERY BIG issues...

most of the Sheeple in this Country would never even think to question the Government's action's, and how sad is that really? Our Nation was founded bye a group of men who questioned there Governments Actions.

And dont get me wrong i agree with Almost Every Law on the books, we cant have people just walking around Killing those who look at them funny,

Bye the People, For the People, This Country was built on the broken backs of our Mothers and Fathers, Daughters and Sons.

I love My country and would never want to live anywhere else, But why doesnt our Government take care of its own, but will send thousands to their deaths for another Countries problems that do not concern us, As long as they present a global risk like Hitlers crazy ass, why bother? focus on the United States Of America.
Make sure every one that pays taxes and gives back to the country is provided for in the form of free heathcare, free education, free housing, free food, and Our Government would be the strongest Nation of all time with Citizens willing to Die without a thought for their Country, i would almost bet on it......

reply to post by ripcontrol


I have no religion. I'm an anti-theist and I'm nonreligious, but I'm also anti-religious.

I will add at this point, I concur, Violence has a place, but is only acceptable when NO OTHER alternative has worked. Only as the last option, at the end of the playbook.

However, to continue from my earlier post. VIOLENCE and PASSION are close brothers, just with different intent. All based on EMOTION.

Some would say we must control our emotions.. This is easy for some, impossible for others.

De-escalation is always my choice, cold logical reasoning has helped in a lot of situations. From my wife trying to instigate an argument, to the moron down the street who decided my kid was a problem and wanted to duke it out on the front lawn.. People are PASSIONATE in their beliefs, thoughts, reasons and motives. But the problem here in lies, right or wrong, people's PASSIONS will drive them, for good or for ill.

As society is weighed down more and more with current events, and a continues destruction of the economy and such, people's "passions" will rise more and more. And De-evolving to our basic Passions will continue, and it will get ugly.

It is a vast, and complex system, emotions are based on a long list of things, from the home, to work, to religion, to relationships with significant others, provisions, money, Truth, Lies, Ethnicity.. You name it..

Tho, in the end, ultimate violence(Offense) can only be met with Violence(defense).

May we all never be faced with such a scenario. Peace, and vigilance.

I know you asked for an American perspective, I am in Australia and it do feels like the 53 state at times.

Lethal Force - Only justified in an immediate life threatening situation in defence of yourself or others. Some considerations are made depending on age, mental history and the situation. If you shoot someone in the back who is walking away with your tv you are in big trouble.

Lesser levels of force - You can only go up to the level of force you are confronted with. So you cannot take a gun to a knife fight. Considerations are made depending on the situation and available options.

This is how all conflicts should be handled, this is the only acceptable way for the populace to be armed.


If you don not use your pillow correctly this is how you will be dealt with.

NUFF SAID

reply to post by getreadyalready

1. I don't like state-sanctioned violence (i.e. Death Penalty.)
2. I do like death penalty, but it should be personal (i.e. victim or family have final say.)
3. Violence is never appropriate for political or economical advantage......NEVER!
4. Revenge violence should not be proportional, it should be overwhelming and decisive.

BANG ON THE MONEY

Though this topic is very debatable, we must first analyze, what is violence?

Violence is the expression of physical or verbal force against self or other, compelling action against one's will on pain of being hurt

an act of aggression (as one against a person who resists);

By definition, it is an act conveyed by one or more persons on another. With that said, we now have to observe, the " reaction " phase. A) Said threaten person(s) cower down; do what ones force to do against ones will, or B) Defend oneself?

The reaction phase also implements the desired " reaction" whether by diplomacy, or other means. Perfect example, in 1941 and before, the US was in negotiations with the Japanese regrading a peace treaty, and yet on that faithful day, Dec. 7 1941, we were blatantly attacked. Without provocation.

So, now we are at the conclusion phase;
If all other attempts of a peaceful resolution fail, what are the only best options, to stand ones ground, and defend themselves from a foreign power, domestic power, or tyranny in general?

Now there will always be those who oppose violence, but unfortunately, sometimes violence is the only measure in which to solve said problem. Thus the reason the Bill of rights specifically identifies the rights of the public to defend oneself.

If a person(s) is not permitted by law to defend them self, by what ever force may be imposing their will, then whats to stop governments, or other powers to impose on the republic?

Bottom line is, you have the right to defend yourself, and if the only measure is violence, then that would suggest all other resolutions have dissolved.