How Can You Call yourself "Pro Life"

How can the anti-abortion crowd justify thier position. It remains a fundmental right for a person to contrioll his or her own body. Add in the fact that the right to life crown is not only killing people but supporting those that do. All of the militant RTL groups thereby fit the description of a terrorist group. My question to you mwm1331 and other religious zealots is why you feel you need to controll a woman body? Is it a coincidene that most of these religious right wing fanatics oppose birth controll as well

Is it really a mystery to you why abortion is flat-out, fundamentally wrong? What you are doing is focusing on the wrong point when it comes to this topic. Stop thinking about it in just the context of the woman. There is more in the equation. You don't solve an equation by solving only one variable. And if you do, yes, you get an answer, but it isn't the right one, is it? So if you are contemplating abortion in terms of strictly focusing on the woman, you ignore other elements, and therefore come out with a skewed opinion that somehow aborting (aka, stopping, halting, cutting off....look the word up in the dictionary) someone who is growing and developing and by the way, breathing and moving, and also completely innocent and incapable of protecting itself, is right.

If you really really want me to, I will lay out a number of solid reasons of why I (the evil women's rights hater) oppose cutting off a life prematurely, in other words, killing.

By the way, those who kill in the name of pro-life are wrong. They have let their passion overcome them and they submit to evil acts and then become what they hate. But please don't take those cases and then take your brush and paint it over the entire pro-life side. How many have done this, only a few. They deserve to be locked up for good, no doubt, but don't generalize.

FredT, if you have a question to address to mwm1331, would it not have been simpler to reply to the current abortion thread, rather than beginning a new one?

Those of us who live in the Pit - sorry, the Political Debate Forum - have enough trouble keeping things straight as it is.

That the majority of the "pro life" movement is also for the death penalty? A true contradiction.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
That the majority of the "pro life" movement is also for the death penalty? A true contradiction.

You notice how the majority of pro-abortion people are anti death penalty? A true contradiction.
Before dishing out criticism, make sure your side is clean.

Besides, you think you can compare a child in the womb who is utterly innocent and incapable of fending for itself or acting on it's own being ended to those that have committed a heinous crime of some sort being put to death? Really. That is soooo interesting. Next topic, let's compare apples and oranges!!!! Sounds good to me. So what do you all think??

just an observation.

You are still contradicting yourself. A life is a life.

Hmmm, true. You say save the baby, but then blow it up along with the mother, doctor, nurse, and any other people at the hospital. You say it is murder to kill a mass of cells yet shoot a doctor. You say death to the criminals, but every life is precious.

And I don't think to many pro-choice people are anti DP. I'm not, I approve of DP, they need to use it more. Help keep taxes down by cleaning out death row, no more appeals for 15 years.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
That the majority of the "pro life" movement is also for the death penalty? A true contradiction.

True, it is a contradiction. I am against abortion and against the death penalty. There are many of us out there friend.

But is it not more of a contradiction to be against the death penalty and for abortion?

I think so, but this is fairly off topic.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
just an observation.

You are still contradicting yourself. A life is a life.

Exactly, a life is a life so why does the woman have a right to take a third parties life away?

Why is that Scott Peterson is getting tried on two counts of murder even thought the baby was still in Laci's womb?

Religion has nothing to do with abortion unless those of whom are religious want to bring it in to the equation, it will just get more messy.

Let's keep the abortion topic on just that, abortion, no religion, no death penalty ect...

The right to life or the right to kill...

Sugar coat it all you want to make your point less barbaric but it is what it is, a termination of a life is just a nice of saying murder...

Just the like people who don't want to lift a finger to help themselves are called the "disenfranchised" .... what a joke... Except it's beyond funny, it's pathetic.

The real question is how can any pro-lifer support a war?

killing is killing and we're all human.

I suppose it's easier when you don't have to see the dead.

Then you are saying the government should control a woman's body? Is that what you really want? There is the ole saying be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.

The gov't does not officially recognize a child as a human being until that child is born. Thus the birth certificate.

The 1st trimester that "baby" is dependent completely on the mother and could not survive outside of the womb. Therefore is it not more of a "Parasite"?

Oh, yes-The majority of the "disenfranchised" are hard working Americans trying to raise a family on minimum wage while their employers have a hard time deciding whether to get the 45 foot yacht or the 60 foot yacht.

There are many homeless people working full time today. The beloved Ronald Reagan also threw many mentally ill out on the streets in the '80s.
That to go along with him trying to get ketchup classified as a vegetable in the school lunch program. What a "hero".

Well that could be a good point if it wasn't so vague.

When we have people attacking the country in the name of religion and politics action needs to be taken. -obviously-

When regular people VOLUNTARILY sign up military duty they run the chances of being killed -obviously-
Those people signed up to protect the country, thats the purpose of a military.
-obviously-


So how does that correlate with murder via abortion? I mean, the baby was conceived through sex-obviously- cells grow to form a zygot which forms into a human being, I highly doubt that baby is starting any bull# with the person carrying the baby so why does she terminate it?
Because she doesn't want the burden...

So I still don't see how your logic on military has anything to do with abortion.

All I see is you trying to justify the action by bringing some other scenario onto the scene to back up your belief. And your scenario has nothing to do with abortion thus makes it a pretty bad point.

don't even bother trying again, I obviously see that your trying to make the ends justify the means.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Then you are saying the government should control a woman's body? Is that what you really want? There is the ole saying be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.

You are confussing the issue. The government does not control anyones body. They do control a good number of the things you do with it though. You can't put certain substances into your body, you can't be in public after drinking too much, you can't pee in public, you can't assult others, you can not murder, but I think you get the idea.

Why do they do this? Because the government is looking to provide the most amount of freedoms without encroatching on anothers.

The gov't does not officially recognize a child as a human being until that child is born. Thus the birth certificate.

Yes, but that means little. They don't recognize death until the brain is dead, so a case could be made that when the brain begins functioning, it should be protected. It's neither hear nor there.

The 1st trimester that "baby" is dependent completely on the mother and could not survive outside of the womb. Therefore is it not more of a "Parasite"?

Last time I checked, my 3 1/2 year old was not capable of living without protection and food. He is dependant on others for his very survival. Children are parasites, especially newborns, so again, there is really no point here.

Originally posted by Lysergic
The real question is how can any pro-lifer support a war?

killing is killing and we're all human.

I suppose it's easier when you don't have to see the dead.

Ok, this is silly and very boiled down. I would say that almost all people do not like and would not choose war just for fun.

Although they do see the need for it when there is just cause. This translates to abortion because they could very easily seek to avoid abortion (like war) unless there was a serious need (like risk to the mother's life).

So there is really no point to your comment.

So when is a baby self aware? I'm not a woman so I can't comment if it's right or wrong, I suppose I wouldn't have an abortion if I was in the situation, but if it was made illegal abortions would still happen.

Originally posted by Lysergic
So when is a baby self aware? I'm not a woman so I can't comment if it's right or wrong, I suppose I wouldn't have an abortion if I was in the situation, but if it was made illegal abortions would still happen.

Well, first off, you are weak because you have voted yourself incompentent to hold a valid opinion. I will treat you as such.

Two, How do you define "self-aware" when speaking to children. In some respects, my oldest boy (3 1/2) is not self-aware, so it's completely subjective in nature.

If abortions were illegal, they WOULD still happen. But tell me this, if you go to the hospital and they give you an injection from which you get an infection and die, you have legal recourse (well, your family does at least). If you shoot up and get an infection and die, you have nothing, and get nothing.

Should people risk it, they will really be risking it. And for what? For nothing.

So, skip along little boy and let those who hold worth to their ideas talk.

lol, nice arrogant attempt, you want my opinion, then I'm pro-choice, to each their own I say, and yet I've no desire to try and flame you.

Most people are "pro-life," and they are not "terrorists."

The fact is that a fetus is a conscious, living being. Sonograms clearly show the unborn babies flexing their hands, moving their faces and moving about in other ways. This isn't mindless tissue.

Many people who support abortion also support late-term abortions, a practice that results in the near-borns pulled from the mother's body, their brains pierced and limbs cut away. Most medical personnel in surgical rooms who have witnessed this barbarity are appalled.

It's murder, plain and simple, however legal.

researcher 01A
www.onealclan.com

Originally posted by Lysergic
lol, nice arrogant attempt, you want my opinion, then I'm pro-choice, to each their own I say, and yet I've no desire to try and flame you.

There is a distinct difference between arrogant and confindent. I know my worth.

The thing is, is I don't care what your opinion is. The whole point, is that you are part of the problem. "What problem?" you ask. Well, I'll tell you.

Fathers and men are being separated from the process, whether by the deadbeat dads influencing the femanists who then in turn trickled down the idea that men shouldn't have the right to have or excersize an opinion on the matter

OR

The other way around.

But the thing is, is it can't be both ways. Either men should be responcible (including financially) for any child they father and have an equal say in the choice.

OR

Men have no say in the abortion choice and we get off scott free.

As to the flaming, I am not flaming you only your mentality, which I think to be limited at best. I find it funny that someone has the opinion that they should not be allowed to interject one. I think the reason is because your reasons for being Pro-Choice are so lame, unthought out, and boiled down might be part of the reason.

Firstly, comparing abortion and the death penalty is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. It's two different things.

And no ones trying to control a womans body so get over it. If that argument is the limit of your debate, then pack it up, and leave the debating to people who actually use their brain, rather than just spouting popular rhetoric.
I firmly believe in a persons right to do with their body whatever they will. But that thing thats being torn to pieces and sucked out of you is NOT YOUR BODY, it's someone elses body. By your own argument you are imposing your will over another persons form. And that my friends is hypocracy.
Who decides when life begins? How many days separate abortion from cold-blooded murder?
So a child in the womb is incapable of sustaining itself without the mother so it is not really alive? What freakin' Hitler wannabe came up with this idea? I know adults who aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
Comparing a fetus to a parasite is the most horrifying thing I have ever heard. The second was the Nazis' saying that the Jews weren't really people, they were PARASITES. So it was ok to kill them.
And comparing these two actually holds water.

Any way you look at it, abortion is murder. It is a murder for the sake of convenience.
And don't fire back with the "Y, y, yeah well, well, pro-lifers blow up abortion clinics and kill doctors." argument. See my above statement about popular rhetoric.